Should Scotland be an independent country?

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posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 04:21 AM
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reply to post by TheWetCoast
 


Buddy at the end of the day you are Canadian. You live in Canada. You need to live here to understand the full implications if Scotland secedes from the United Kingdom. Im not saying dont have an opinion just that its rather a more complicated issue when you are actually living it on a daily basis.
edit on 25-1-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 04:25 AM
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Canada is a fractured country of two languages.

Scotland has one people and one language. If they want to be independent who the heck re we on ATS to say whether they should or shouldn't. Let them decide.

"Ach noo, the friendly lads at ATS think we shood be independent. Ah well, lets do it then shall wee to keep the poor souls harpy? After all they've noothin else to live for really aye?"



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 04:32 AM
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reply to post by andy06shake
 


Very true. I thought it might be a good idea to throw some gas/petroleum into the fire to see what happens. I am member of the the Boyd Clan.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 04:40 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


Haha!! What a sharp guy...Glasgow wit and a wee touch of venom at it's finest, and he's bang on about their indifference. Everyone needs to watch that vid. I know he's just talking about a crappy hyped up talent show, run by people with absolutely no talent whatsoever for anything besides making money, but even in this context, how ironic that one of the biggest names their shows produced was a wee woman from Scotland.

They don't WANT us....they think we're USEFUL. We have oil reserves, we have lots of business infrastructure and experience in the energy business, and I appreciate that all of that could be relocated, but why bother when it's just up the road, as long as they can keep us in our place, eh? Oh yes, and queenie has a house here, and it just wouldn't do to have her showing her passport at the border every August now, would it?



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 04:40 AM
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IMHO abandoning the ship that is the British Empire is not the answer. We need to fix our problems not just re-label them under a Scottish banner!

Look how much over budget the Scottish Parliament building came in at! £414 million!!!!!

Now imagine that nation wide!

Not a good idea.
edit on 25-1-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 04:43 AM
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reply to post by andy06shake
 


British Empire? Did I miss something?
Everything changes and evolves in times...everything. There is no point in retaining some out of date empirical ideal which wasn't that great for Scotland in the first place....disastrous for us in some ways actually....if it doesn't serve us now.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 04:48 AM
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reply to post by andy06shake
 


The original Westminster construction budget seriously over ran too....and the place took more than 30 years to complete. They're about to spend god knows how much more on it now to deal with asbestos and dodgy Victorian plumbing, so I think a debate about construction costs is a little pointless. Really has nothing to do with our state of independence.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 04:50 AM
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reply to post by caitlinfae
 


"British Empire? Did I miss something? Everything changes and evolves in times...everything. There is no point in retaining some out of date empirical ideal which wasn't that great for Scotland in the first place....disastrous for us in some ways actually....if it doesn't serve us now."

What just like the United states of America is out of date and non functional, aka broke!

The United Kingdom has been around for more than 200 years.

It may be a little on the broke side, but it can be fixed.

Breaking it apart will only end up being counterproductive!
edit on 25-1-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 05:08 AM
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Let them have their vote, it is highly unlikely the independence side will win.
It is why they are wanting things like 16 year olds to be allowed to vote in it, i.e immature children who will just vote for independence without understanding the implications.
The whole thing has been stirred up by nasty little BIGOTS like Salmond who is trying to create divisions where this none anymore.
IF they get it they are mistaken if they think the rest of us aren't going to make them take their share of the national debt (RBS HBOS...both Scottish), they WILL NOT be getting North Sea Oil that the rest of us had to pay to research and extract, they WILL and SHOULD be kicked out of the EU and forced to reapply. They will be kicked out of our currency. It is laughable if they think they can maintain the Scottish regiments in the army.
Just how they think they will be able to afford an NHS is baffling..
I am an Ulster-Scot, 1 side of my family only second generation out of Scotland, and yes was always said about how an independent Scotland would be nice but nothing other than jokingly, when the crunch came it would be VERY different, but then my relatives tended to be educated.
Salmond also got a shock recently (last year) when talking to politicians this side of the Irish Sea, he seemed to be under the illusion that we would continue to be as friendly and close to Scotland if they won independence as we are now, in fact it will be the exact opposite.
So, if they want to snub the other 60 odd million of us the need to understand we will be more than happy to turn our backs on them and let them sink.
WHY should be treat them any other way?

reply to post by MadhatterTheGreat
 

I am from Belfast, the VAST MAJORITY of us, ALL RELIGIONS want to be British, your friend is obviously one if the little bigots who run around here causing trouble. But then you admitted to being American, the very country who funded the terrorism in my country, and this makes you proud how? Perhaps you should get your FACTS straight before talking in future.
Know many victims of these terrorists do you?? Like how the IRA twice attacked my fathers business because he employed people of all religions, this doesn't fit with IRA agenda, you know the terrorists the country you are SO PROUD of funded.
BTW, Belfast is on the island of Ireland, the country of Ireland is not in the UK (the free from England bit highlights your ignorance)
edit on 25-1-2013 by biggilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 05:15 AM
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I do not want Scotland to break all ties with England.That would be very unproductive.I do however want Scotland to be an independently governed country(which would still be part of the same union). This would be a very good gesture and would only help to make the U.K. stronger-just like what we have with Canada.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 05:17 AM
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Originally posted by Dispo
As a British person, here is an open letter to any people who regard themselves as English/Irish/Welsh/Scottish.

Dear English/Irish/Welsh/Scottish

Stop being so obtuse.

Regards,
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.


Ok well how this - I tell people I am 3/4 English and 1/4 irish - why ? Because it is correct !
People call themselves english /irish/scott etc for a reason.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by SprocketUK
Give them a referendum. A proper one. People living in Scotland who were born to Scottish parents.
Then, if they want out of the Union it would be dead wrong to stop them.
(Just figure out some way to not have to worry about border checks and I'd be happy).

Oh really so having lived here for 30 years I am not allowed a vote and neither are my kids who have never lived anywhere else? Do I have to leave if independance is granted ? Will scottish passports be issued. Will all scots abroad who haven't lived here for decades get a vote? Will they get a passport and have to go home once independance is granted?

The moment you cherry pick who can vote based on where they were born and not where they live you open up the proverbial can of worms.

Tell me this : if (thoeretically) 55% of people currently living scotland, paying taxes, keeping the country afloat were not of scottish origin would they have to abide by the wishes of a minority who are allowed to vote under your rules?

Try this little nugget that most people even scots forget: The union was only established after the lairds of Scotland had a failed attempt at colonising the americas and lost their money. You do realise don't you that the first ships landing in the US 4 hundred years ago from England had geologists on board so that the mineral wealth of the americas could be assessed so that the crowns coffers could be filled. The Scottish lairds wanted a bit of that "action" but it failed, the locals killed them basically, surprise surprise !! Now at that point Scotland was broke and the English parliament and crown bailed out Scotland who had to forfeit control to London. The only country in history to ever have sold its independence for money!!!!!!!

Now if England bailed out Scotland should the English taxpayers have a say in the independance of Scotland given the monetary reason for the union in the first place?

The most amusing thing is that the SNP want to remain in the EU and thus be an even smaller part of a larger union. The UK (inclusive of Scotland) has a say in Europe due to it being one of the richest countries so the EU likes to keep us sweet. Scotland would be minnows in that union. The UK (without Scotland) would still be one of the richest countries. Please don't give me the oil excuse. The income from North Sea oil is very very slightly more than Scotlands share of the UK debt repayments incurred by the banking crisis. And how ironic that the biggest bank was SCOTTISH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ready for this : I would vote for independance even though I know scotland would be financially worse off. However the SNP, Labour and Lib dems who would run Scotland for the benfit of us whilst the Tories in England dismantle all public services and hand them over to their pals in private industry. They are even managing to give their friends MILLIONS from social security. Schools, hospitals, water , energy and infrastructure is working much better in Scotland than England.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 05:28 AM
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reply to post by yorkshirelad
 


Mate, the painful truth is that the taxes paid by the Scottish DO NOT come anywhere near what would be needed to keep it afloat, same for Wales and NI, it is the English who keep us in the manner we are accustomed.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 05:47 AM
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Welsh got talent!

Still Here


This guy went to jail in the 60s for promoting the Welsh language.

You might like this
edit on 25-1-2013 by Logarock because: n



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 05:54 AM
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Just think how much it will cost in establishing Scottish embassies all around the world and the work they'll have to do in Spain/Greece every year bailing out the drunks yobs/people in trouble etc



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 06:04 AM
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reply to post by Logarock
 


Welsh language is a funny one. The Welsh are fiercely patriotic but most of them don't speak Welsh. We go to the trouble of setting up and funding a Welsh language tv station for them and it regularly got ZERO viewers (not an exaggeration, literally no one watched). It is now defunct (rightly so).

To the topic in hand - No. They are obviously entitled to their own decision up in Scotland but in my view no one benefits. I did notice also that the latest polls in Scotland (in their annual report to the Scottish Parliament) shows support for independence is down (i think it said to 23%). Obviously this figure will change closer to the referendum but it isn't looking rosy anymore for Salmond!

By the way, the 16-18 year old category has been shown to be in favour of the Union in the figures i have seen. Someone else may have access to a different poll that shows otherwise though......



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 06:09 AM
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Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Logarock
 


Welsh language is a funny one. The Welsh are fiercely patriotic but most of them don't speak Welsh. We go to the trouble of setting up and funding a Welsh language tv station for them and it regularly got ZERO viewers (not an exaggeration, literally no one watched). It is now defunct (rightly so).


Yea, I listend to Radio Acen on the net a great deal. Then I tuned in one day and it was gone. I live in the states and probably racked up more time listing to Acen than maybe anyone anywere. Took some of the languge on line classes. Those folks have a nack for music and man can those welsh ladies sing. WOW!

Heres the thing...."we go to the trouble of setting up....for "them". It may have went defunct out of protest to being patronized. Their a strange lot like that. After years and years of trying to defunct their language the rejection of the tv station may have been more of an up yours rather than apathy. You know. Like now the English are going to buy us a station and take credit for the upsurge in Welsh language identity.
edit on 25-1-2013 by Logarock because: n



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by andy06shake
IMHO abandoning the ship that is the British Empire is not the answer. )


That ship sailed 50 years ago !!!
edit on 25-1-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 06:57 AM
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reply to post by TheWetCoast
 


Scotland is Free, it's not exactly opressed by the UK government, although some Scots would have you believe that is the case.:-) If Scotland votes to be independent in the referendum, good luck to them, I am against it because Even though I am from Wales I'm am British, and don't believe in the separation of the UK. trouble is the SNP hasn't been very clear in what it wants for an independent Scotland, for a start they want to keep the Queen as Head of State, and the pound, which will mean their interest rates will be set by the Bank of England, so they wont really be independent, as far as I can see it's a land grab fuelled by anti English for the mos part, malcontents with chips on their shoulder, who want the revenue from oil and gas field they calim are Scottish when in reality they are British, ie they belong to all of us, still like I say, i'm glad we are having the debate, and I'm glad the Scots can have the referendum, hopefully they will vote to stay with, however no-one has asked the rest of the UK if we want to keep the Scots :-) LOL



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by Shminkee Pinkee
reply to post by TheWetCoast
 


, however no-one has asked the rest of the UK if we want to keep the Scots :-) LOL


True .. and labour really really do not want to lose Scotland - without the Scottish votes they would never get into Parliament again, so watch out for some real fear mongering from Labour.

If Scotland wants to have the pound, and stay in the EU - they are just swapping one supposed master for another. They should be like Iceland.

BTW Alex Salmond is an empire builder - he does not care about Scotland, he cares about wealth and power, he is desperate to be PM, that is where he is coming from.





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