Real Talk - Most conspiracy theorists are religious by nature.

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posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:21 PM
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Greetings ATS,

I will apologize in advance for the semi provocative title of this thread but I do think it conveys what this topic at it's heart is actually about. This is something I have been following and taking note of for some time but I have just now gotten around to posting about it in what I feel is the right medium and mood to do so.

I am a conspiracy theorist, I will not try to hide what I am at heart but I will say that over the years I have refined my common sense, ability to sort facts and information and settled my conscious brain into a point that I am willing to hear all sides of an argument before I lock in my personal position. Others can not do this and I think the same thing applies to skeptics, once you have convinced yourself of something and determined you position without critical thinking or absorbing all the facts you then spend your time defending and debating your ego more than you do the actual topic or argument at hand.

And, here we go, down the rabbit hole of conjecture, speculation and theory-craft! God, I love ATS!
and the ability to still think for myself and share that with other people. We are lucky, others in the world today could only dream of that and also, far too many brilliant minds in the past, for fear of being burned alive, labeled as a heretic or stoned to death!

The Bible is the #1 best seller of all time. More people own, read and use a bible more than any other book in human history. These facts are very powerful in that they convey an overwhelming influence on the whole of society and not just in one pocket region.



The Bible could be considered the most important book in existence or it could be considered the biggest tool in human enslavement of all time. This all comes down to personal sensibility and individual feeling. The arguments for and against are many but the realistic truth is that spirituality is experienced on an individual basis and no one person can force another to actually feel the way they do, this is true regardless of facts, arguments or in extreme cases torture and death.

Conspiracy theorists on a large scale seem to believe in one concept and that includes myself and that concept is of an Illuminati, or empowered order or even..... TPTB. Almost all of us believe there is a sect of people in power that have privileged knowledge far beyond our own and that order has been in place for thousands of years, shaping our lives and culminating in global agendas ranging from harvesting human souls to enslaving mankind's true capabilities on a universal scale. Many things point free thinkers to these conclusions from the inclusion of the pyramid and all seeing eye on the American dollar bill to the hidden pyramids of Bosnia and China. What else could it mean if it was not a cover up or an attempt to hide knowledge of our past?

These are all valid questions and in truth could leave even the best of our free thinkers laying awake at night in our beds or daydreaming while scratching our heads, it is a long road to travel mentally. What you must consider though is that the same book that some of us hold so dear and base our lives off of was very carefully constructed, manipulated, manufactured and distributed by what I view as one the oldest and most vile organizations in the world, the Roman Catholic Church. History will tell you some of the most corrupt and evil people of all times, those that would torture, kill, scheme and plot for there own power, wealth and corruption were high ranking officials of this age old organization. Once you do the research and realize that is the case, how can you trust what they have given us to consume?



There are other texts just as old and just as important as the scripture we see in the Bible but they have been deemed to be apocryphal or directly conflict with the ideals that have been promoted and instituted by the Vatican. These things do not make these writing any less important and just serve to limit people from forming there own opinion and thoughts.

Jesus and God have not always been painted or depicted in the exact same light that has been sold to you by mainstream religion and if you are not aware of what I speak then I beg you to educate yourself on the works and scrolls that have not been "approved" for the Bible but are just as old and hold just as much credibility, whatever that amount may be for religious texts.

Back to the thread at hand and the real reason I started this thread and what I really want to know from you ATS. If you believe in the Illuminati, if you believe in the TPTB then you have to believe in numerology, you almost certainly have to believe in the occult and directly, most of you believe in devil worship. These things are all tied very closely with Illuminati.... Math, geometric symbolism, satanic signs and worship and there cannot be one person who believes in satanism without also believing in God in some form. It is simply not possible.



Free Masons, elitists, satanists, all these brushes are used to paint TPTB in the elite around the world and the census seems to be that they are fulfilling rituals that have an ultimate root in devil worship and occultism. My questions is this, If that many people out there believe in the Illuminati and how they are portrayed, then the overwhelming majority of conspiracy theorists MUST be religious because you can not have belief in Satan without also having belief in God. This is what I base this premise on and I think it is a very solid one but as I have learned many times before on ATS, I could be wrong.

Tell me why and please, keep it to - Real Talk

edit on 24-1-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by Helious
 





Free Masons, elitists, satanists, all these brushes are used to paint TPTB in the elite around the world and the census seems to be that they are fulfilling rituals that have an ultimate root in devil worship and occultism. My questions is this, If that many people out there believe in the Illuminati and how they are portrayed, then the overwhelming majority of conspiracy theorists MUST be religious because you can not have belief in Satan without also having belief in God. This is what I base this premise on and I think it is a very solid one but as I have learned many times before on ATS, I could be wrong.


I think you could be a little wrong there. Just because these people worship satan, doesn't mean that satan exists. I don't know if they do or not (never really looked that deeply into it..) but even if I saw them dancing naked and drinking goat blood with my own two eyes, I still wouldn't believe in satan..



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:42 PM
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I know quite a few freemasons and unfairly they get lumped into some of these groups. I am not a freemason so I couldnt give you a half way honest answer but I ask alot of questions and I examine every curious thought of mine romantically. I do not think they are satanic nor do I think they are into taking over the world and creating a new world order. However, I asked one if the freemasons have been infiltrated and indeed he answered yes.

However, It was not just jews who were persecuted during wwII but freemasons and other groups. So consider that little fact first.



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by Flatcoat
reply to post by Helious
 





Free Masons, elitists, satanists, all these brushes are used to paint TPTB in the elite around the world and the census seems to be that they are fulfilling rituals that have an ultimate root in devil worship and occultism. My questions is this, If that many people out there believe in the Illuminati and how they are portrayed, then the overwhelming majority of conspiracy theorists MUST be religious because you can not have belief in Satan without also having belief in God. This is what I base this premise on and I think it is a very solid one but as I have learned many times before on ATS, I could be wrong.


I think you could be a little wrong there. Just because these people worship satan, doesn't mean that satan exists. I don't know if they do or not (never really looked that deeply into it..) but even if I saw them dancing naked and drinking goat blood with my own two eyes, I still wouldn't believe in satan..


I see where your coming from, I really do but the thing is this....... If we believe in an Illuminati in that we believe in a world cabal that has formed society for hundreds or even thousands of years and has shaped man kind to serve an ultimate agenda in such a nefarious way that they actively control most facets of society then we must probably make the leap to say if they can pull this off by worshiping Satan, there is probably something too it lol.

Doing what most conspiracy theorists claim the Illuminati does is very close to superhuman on one level or another, it is not easy to shape and form the destiny of an entire planet without knowledge that is hidden and only tapped or used for the will of those in the loop. If we TRULY do believe in an Illuminati, if we do believe in TPTB we have to include satin worship because it is ever so prevalent in there rituals, symbols and physical landmarks. If they are able to rule the physical world through greed, corruption, lies and deceit by paying homage to a demonic presence or lord. How could we hope to counteract that through science or rational thinking alone? hehe
edit on 24-1-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:45 PM
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Your thesis is interesting, and there is definitely some truth to it, but it doesn't tell the whole story.

You say



Back to the thread at hand and the real reason I started this thread and what I really want to know from you ATS. If you believe in the Illuminati, if you believe in the TPTB then you have to believe in numerology, you almost certainly have to believe in the occult and directly, most of you believe in devil worship. These things are all tied very closely with Illuminati.... Math, geometric symbolism, satanic signs and worship and there cannot be one person who believes in satanism without also believing in God in some form. It is simply not possible.


But I disagree. It is absolutely possible if your understanding of the story behind these conspiracies is not tied to a literal interpretation. For example: is it not reasonable that -- IF numerology, magick or devil worship exist, they may represent a symbolic key to the manipulation of a kind of "technology" (for lack of a better word) that the uninitiated are only capable of understanding from a supernatural framework? Like in Clarke's "significantly advanced science = magic" quote.

Regardless -- Think you may have stumbled onto something here. Perhaps the majority of us invent (or absorb) "gods", pop heroes, mythological archetypes and "systems of magic" to avoid the only realization that matters:

That we actually are OF god, and that if we put away all of this nonsense tonight, and collectively went out and did something amazing with our lives instead of creating and following false-idols, no power could resist the transformation of our world in a more positive direction.

Maybe we are a stunted species? We seem to possess the capacity to imagine (and even create) better worlds for ourselves, but we choose to live inside manufactured hells belonging to men (and women) who prefer that we remain fallen.

Good thread. S+F



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:49 PM
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People in power do whatever they have to to stay in power.People who seek power do whatever they have to to gain it. The people of both groups do whatever they have to and make whatever alliances, temporary or otherwise, they have to to attain what they want. The religious stuff, the ideological stuff (for left wing buffoons) is just persnal fake moral justification or a way to manipulate the stupid.
"Conspiracy theorists" who recognize reality are just plain rationalists and are intellectually superior to idiots who believe mainstream media and the sheep who cater to political parties and moron personality cults like Obama the destroyer.
Sorry.
Many "conspiracy theorists" are far superior to those who cater to their small minded need to make themselves feel good based on information intended to do so.



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:50 PM
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Not me.

I cannot engage in the belief that some god considers the creatures of this planet his children, but only in the last 2000+ years, and only if you happen to be born into a community that already has a history of one man telling another man a story about some god that will do bad things to you if you don't do nice things.

It's self limiting and a weakness. It removes your true self from any equation and submits your will to what others tell you is true.

I see how and why it came into existence.

But I think we're beyond being primitive neanderthalls who require the invisible hand of god to guide us.

Sadly, that is not the main theme of the world we live in.

"I say Kill those who offend my god. But I'm really a nice guy. Honest."



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by Helious
 





If we believe in an Illuminati in that we believe in a world cabal that has formed society for hundreds or even thousands of years and has shaped man kind to serve an ultimate agenda in such a nefarious way that they actively control most facets of society then we must probably make the leap to say if they can pull this off by worshiping Satan, there is probably something too it lol.


I'm not dissing your post at all..It's an interesting theory an I can see you've put a lot of effort in, but you only have to look at where the catholic church is today, and how they got there.... it wasn't through kindness and goodwill to all men.



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by 0zzymand0s
 


I will bend to your words because they hold personal meaning for me as an individual. I have long held my religious beliefs close to my chest where public forums are concerned because they do not normaly benefit rational though or enforce critical thinking where it is needed or inferred.

That said, I do believe in a higher power, or even God if you like that term but I do not claim to know what that is. I will concede God as far as my limited human brain can conceive could simply be programmed electromagnetic responses my brain has when talking about such things. It could be a creator or seeder of Earth that has left hidden thoughts, information or feelings encoded in our DNA to elicit a semi conscious feeling or thought.

Satan could in fact just be a rival faction or entity that had something to do with our arrival or creation here on Earth or everything could be just a figment of my imagination and I could be the owners, founder and poster on ATS and possibly the POTUS and when I die everything and everyone could cease to exist!
edit on 25-1-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by Helious
Tell me why....

Because there really is only ONE huge, misunderstood conspiracy that ties all of the others together.

A "super-conspiracy" that explains every smaller conspiracy.

This is the missing link between all conspiracy theories.

This group remains HIDDEN because most don't believe in them or WANT to believe in them.


"After forty years of patient study of the crises which faces humanity, I arrived at a very simple conclusion-all conspiracies are Satanic! " Eustace Mullins


One group and one group alone is responsible for virtually all wars and bloodshed on the face of this planet. This evil cabal is few in numbers but, like a deadly octopus, its tentacles reach out to grip and strangle untold multitudes of innocent victims. The initiates of every secret society and internationalist organization, from the Council on Foreign Relations and the Jesuits to the Bilderbergers and the Order of Skull & Bones, obey the dictates of this sinister group and tremble when standing before its leaders.

The cabalist group I refer to is the Synagogue of Satan, an ancient, yet modern, elite so politically powerful and so fabulously wealthy that even past history has been twisted, reshaped, and revised to meet its preferred version of humanity's gloomy, totalitarian future.

Religious in nature, the Synagogue of Satan is, at its essence, a grotesque, satanic cult. It's high council is composed of High Priests of Lucifer; these are men who literally worship death while practicing sexual magick and occult rituals of the blackest nature.

The Synagogue of Satan



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 12:28 AM
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I'm not really sure but I do think there is a possibility there is a small group of people have access to some type of advanced knowledge (alien tech, ancient advance civilization, time travel, immortality, free energy or something along this sort).

It could also be just a very tight knit group of very rich powerful people who became more powerful by helping each other.

So I don't know if it's devil worship or just a group of people with too much power who became corrupted.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


You can be an atheist and believe in the illuminati. I know one agnostic who believes illuminati exists. Just because they are worshiping the devil, it doesn't make the devil real. Just because a person carve a statue and sacrifice to whatever statue, it doesn't make the statue real. It could just be learned tradition from bad family lines...

As for me, I believe the whole "Devil" thing is a gimmick in order to scare people into Christianity...



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Originally posted by arpgme
You can be an atheist and believe in the illuminati.

Yes that is true, a lot of atheists do believe in the illuminati and that always blows me away.

The real problem isn't people worshiping the devil, the problem is that most are completely deceived by him.

Ironically, they are being totally deceived by the very creature they do not believe exists:


Originally posted by arpgme
As for me, I believe the whole "Devil" thing is a gimmick in order to scare people into Christianity...

That would make a good thread topic BTW...

This is why I am so amazed by the atheists who actually believe in the illuminati...

The OP summed it up pretty well above:


Originally posted by Helious
If you believe in the Illuminati, if you believe in the TPTB then you have to believe in numerology, you almost certainly have to believe in the occult and directly, most of you believe in devil worship. These things are all tied very closely with Illuminati.... Math, geometric symbolism, satanic signs and worship and there cannot be one person who believes in satanism without also believing in God in some form. It is simply not possible.





edit on 25-1-2013 by Murgatroid because: I felt like it..



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 02:28 PM
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conspiracy theories that were proven and and admitted to by the government.
1...the CDC syphilis experiment
www.cdc.gov...
2....watergate
3....iran-contra
nothing to do in regard to religion with these.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by jimmyx
conspiracy theories that were proven and and admitted to by the government.
1...the CDC syphilis experiment
www.cdc.gov...
2....watergate
3....iran-contra
nothing to do in regard to religion with these.


I agree, that's why I used the word "most" in the title. I don't think that I could make a blanket statement about all conspiracies and conspiracy theorists regarding religious beliefs but I do think most who believe in Illuminati tie there motives and actions to devil worship and if that is the case, does that mean the people who possess the most knowledge believe in God but choose to worship the devil instead? Kind of scary when you think about it haha.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by Helious
 




My questions is this, If that many people out there believe in the Illuminati and how they are portrayed, then the overwhelming majority of conspiracy theorists MUST be religious because you can not have belief in Satan without also having belief in God. This is what I base this premise on and I think it is a very solid one but as I have learned many times before on ATS, I could be wrong.



Someone who believes in God is not by definition religious. Religion is man-made and man-operated. The Vatican, for example, is a product of religion. The FLDS Church in Colorado City, Arizona is product of religion. I agree that one cannot believe in Satan without believing in God, but an individual is completely free to deny God as a power in his/her life, to turn from God. The Bible says that the people who seek out God and believe he sent his son as a redemption will know God. Getting to know God involves God speaking to you through the holy spirit. People who, as you mention, believe in the Illuminati don't necessarily also believe in Satan. They don't know God exists because they do not hear him because they did not seek him.




Jesus and God have not always been painted or depicted in the exact same light that has been sold to you by mainstream religion and if you are not aware of what I speak then I beg you to educate yourself on the works and scrolls that have not been "approved" for the Bible but are just as old and hold just as much credibility, whatever that amount may be for religious texts.


Forget what mainstream religion is selling, painting or depicting, ask God to reveal the truth of his nature to you, and read the works and scrolls in the Bible. If you are truly seeking wisdom from God, you will truly find it. When that occurs, I hope you will come to understand that God is present and his promises are real. No matter what people are doing under the sun - the Illuminati, reptilian aliens, "elites," the Vatican, the CIA, occultists - God will fulfill the promises he delivered to us in HIS OWN WORDS. The story in the Bible, the words of God and his son and the testimony of witnesses is enough.




What you must consider though is that the same book that some of us hold so dear and base our lives off of was very carefully constructed, manipulated, manufactured and distributed by what I view as one the oldest and most vile organizations in the world, the Roman Catholic Church. History will tell you some of the most corrupt and evil people of all times, those that would torture, kill, scheme and plot for there own power, wealth and corruption were high ranking officials of this age old organization. Once you do the research and realize that is the case, how can you trust what they have given us to consume?



The Bible was not created by the Catholic church, nor were its books "approved" by church men. God made the Bible by speaking, and by inspiring the minds and hearts of men to carry out the preservation of his words. History will tell you that mankind is corrupt and evil and that mankind tortures, kills, schemes and plots for power. God told us this is true is his word, which HE GAVE to us, not that we might consume it but live and breathe it. His word is not a lie or a man-made creation. The book is held dear because it reveals the truth. That is all.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by Helious
What you must consider though is that the same book that some of us hold so dear and base our lives off of was very carefully constructed, manipulated, manufactured and distributed by what I view as one the oldest and most vile organizations in the world, the Roman Catholic Church.

This is what religion would have you believe.

Religion is a LIE...

Religion was created to HIDE the truth from you about God.

Behind religion stands the father of ALL lies.

This is WHY religion ALWAYS lies.

Jesus OPPOSED religion and religious people hated Him.

Religion is a form of mind control.

Religion and truth have very little in common.

The Roman Catholic "Church" HATES the Word of God just like all other cults do.

The Vatican has numerous documents declaring her hatred for the Word.


After The Roman Catholic church got underway, they immediately started killing Bible believing Christians with the Inquisition. Christians were and still ARE considered an enemy to Romes pagan beliefs
www.youtube.com...


"Opened on Thursday alongside the Inquisition archives was the infamous Index of Forbidden Books, which Roman Catholics were forbidden to read or possess on pain of excommunication. They showed that even "the Bible" was once on the blacklist. Translations of the holy book ended up on the bonfires along with other ``heretical'' works...

"Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; ...we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books."
paintingpictures.xanga.com...


"...the RCC killed and tortured over 50 million bible believing Christians during the Catholic Inquisition whose only heresy was that they would not pay homage to the Pope and place him on equal ground with Jesus Christ and owned a Bible which was srictly forbidden by the RCC so that they know not the truth....
www.raptureforums.com...


Roman Catholics and the pope wanted to use the Council of Trent to stop those godless Protestants and Destroy their heretical Bible.
www.theologyweb.com...


WHY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH COULD NOT HAVE GIVEN US THE BIBLE

The Catholic Church could not have given us the Bible for the very simple and
conclusive reason that the Catholic Church was non-existent for several
centuries after the Bible was given to the world.

This history also disproves the Catholic claim that they gave the world the complete
Bible at the Council of Hippo in A.D. 390. This is false because we had the
complete Bible early in the second century, before the existence of the Catholic
Church.

The Catholic Church did not give us the Bible because no religious movement
gives literature that condemns the very teaching of that religious movement.

If the Catholic Church gave the Bible to us why does it so thoroughly condemn the
Roman Catholic hierarchy and the doctrines and practices of the Catholic Church?

If the Catholic Church gave the world the Bible why has she always opposed the
Bible?

As you can see from their own writings the Catholic Church has always
opposed the Bible. Why then did the Catholic Church give us the Bible
according to their claim? If the Catholic Church is the official interpreter of the
Bible then why did God wait several centuries after giving the Bible to establish
the Catholic Church?

www.portlandchristians.net...



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 05:15 AM
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Not religious
Not a new ager
^ (people need to start distinguishing things - new agers such as those believing in awakening, GFL, good brothers, alien brothers, light brothers, UFO Believers such as for those that aliens and saucers are flying around every minute, like every light in the sky flying is aliens, pseudo-skeptics for whom all is known - it doesnt exist, all is a lie, all doen't exist, and those like me with open mind of the possibility of having some technlogy, even alien, just not conclusive enough to say so atm)

And away from ridiculous conspiracists - like finding some gov evil plan in every INCIDENT that happens in the world,

so such like me who are into these stories, so all who read or deal with it are religious? That's a nonsense claim



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by TruthLover557
 


"truthlover" did you read the OP? Do you understand the history of the text you're asking everyone to put "faith" in? Or how about those who created it?

In short, is there any reason to take your knowledge on the matter seriously?



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 07:03 PM
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"truthlover" did you read the OP? Do you understand the history of the text you're asking everyone to put "faith" in? Or how about those who created it?

In short, is there any reason to take your knowledge on the matter seriously?




reply to post by Ewok_Boba
 


Of course I read the OP. How about you? I understand the history of the text. I didn't ask everyone, or anyone, to put faith in the text. Why do you say that?

I wasn't trying to tout knowledge on any matter and care not whether you or anyone else take me seriously. I however take my life seriously. I take God and his role in my life seriously. I take his word seriously.





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