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New Mexico Bill Would Criminalize Abortions After Rape As 'Tampering With Evidence'

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posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by lampsalot
 



Just because the baby's father is a jerk doesn't mean their life couldn't possibly be worthwhile.


Absolutely true.

part of the reason it's pro-choice and not pro-abortion.




posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by lampsalot
 


Good for her. Has her rapist petitioned for paternity rights and visitation yet?

No woman should be forced to carry her rapist's child to term.



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by windword
 



This is true, but a woman, who is the victim of rape, should not be forced to report that rape........

in order to obtain an abortion.


Apologies if my words conveyed that. I don't believe they should have to either.



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Absolutely true.

part of the reason it's pro-choice and not pro-abortion.


I have a pretty unique view on abortion. I think it should be legal as long as it's done early, even though personally I think it's wrong.

Why? Because the public opinion is generally in favor of abortion, and I think no matter what my personal opinion on the stance is, a law can't change that. If 70% of the public believed that infanticide was okay, I would accept the futility in passing a law making it considered murder as well.

The best way to discourage abortion isn't to criminalize it but rather to make the alternative options, such as adoption easier and more importantly, to teach sex education.

I don't get why pro-lifers are so against contraception when they prevent abortion - shows what many of their true priorities are.



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:06 PM
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I think what annoys me about the pro-choice people though is that they view abortion as being this binary choice, and how it promotes moral relativism and this idea that a baby is a product you can 'want' or 'not want'. It's very much connected to consumerism. Killing your unborn baby is just as valid and good as giving birth in their eyes.

The term "choice" makes abortion sound like choosing between Pepsi and Coke or something.



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by olaru12
 

Dear olaru12,

May I ask you to reconsider?

You know as well as I do that Rep. Brown is a pro life zealot and this bill has just shown her true colors by Trying to infringe on a woman's right to chose. That was her intent and it's made the GOP look like a bunch of fools once again.
I'm afraid that I don't know it as well as you do. I have no knowledge of her at all. I would have said the same thing if Romney or Obama had presented the bill. It's not about the person, it's about the bill.

As long as the GOP continues to adopt this anti choice stance they are destined to failure. Even most conservative women want government out of their womb.
There is nothing in this bill that prevents an abortion. Nothing. You might have other objections, but this one seems to be ill-founded. Please explain if I have misunderstood you.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by lampsalot
 


Good for her. Has her rapist petitioned for paternity rights and visitation yet?

No woman should be forced to carry her rapist's child to term.


Could be wrong but I think in the case I read of, her testimony led to the rapist being put in jail.

In the case of the rapist petitioning for rights, I think that's a separate issue. You can be pro-life and still agree that a rapist forfeited any right to their baby because they became a parent through a criminal act.



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 

Dear Lucid Lunacy,

Thanks very much. I might have missed something that you can clear up for me.

Assume, for a moment, a raped woman going for an abortion. She decides, for whatever reason, not to report the rape. The abortion is performed. The police stop by the hospital two or three months later to gather evidence of the rape, which they learned about from some other source. Do you really think the hospital will still have the foetus, or foetal tissue, on hand? I suspect it will be gone along with any evidence which it could have provided.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by lampsalot

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by lampsalot
 


Good for her. Has her rapist petitioned for paternity rights and visitation yet?

No woman should be forced to carry her rapist's child to term.


Could be wrong but I think in the case I read of, her testimony led to the rapist being put in jail.

In the case of the rapist petitioning for rights, I think that's a separate issue. You can be pro-life and still agree that a rapist forfeited any right to their baby because they became a parent through a criminal act.


31 States Allow Rapists Custody and Visitation Rights

Rapist Wants Visitation Rights With Child Conceived During Rape

Rapist Wants Visitation Rights for Child of 14-Year-Old Victim

My rapist sued for and won legal visitation rights to my daughter conceived from my rape

Rapists Can Claim Custody, Visitation Rights for Victims' Babies Read more at global.christianpost.com...



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by windword


31 States Allow Rapists Custody and Visitation Rights

Rapist Wants Visitation Rights With Child Conceived During Rape

Rapist Wants Visitation Rights for Child of 14-Year-Old Victim

My rapist sued for and won legal visitation rights to my daughter conceived from my rape

Rapists Can Claim Custody, Visitation Rights for Victims' Babies Read more at global.christianpost.com...


Never said it doesn't happen. I said it was a separate issue.

I think it's not tenable to be pro-life except in the case of rape. I think abortion either has to be legal on-demand or it has to be illegal. If rape was the only way a woman could get an abortion, there would be many cases of them falsely accusing their baby's father of rape.



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:24 PM
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edit on 24-1-2013 by lampsalot because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by lampsalot
 


A separate issue for who? Not the woman / mother.



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by lampsalot
 


A separate issue for who? Not the woman / mother.


No what I mean is the fact that many states don't strip rapists of their legal fatherhood is a separate issue from the abortion issue. If rapists were banned from seeing their children then there would be no reason the mother would have to get an abortion to protect herself from such a situation.



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:39 PM
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reply to post by lampsalot
 


There are still plenty of reasons why a woman would not want to be forced to be mother or to give birth, only to adopt the child out.

edit on 24-1-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:53 PM
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I am just speaking to the issue of incest. I was a child protection investigator for a number of years and knew of cases where men perpetrating incest would force their daughters to have abortions in an effort to get rid of the evidence. There needs to be a law that would add to their criminal charges.



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:56 PM
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This idea strikes me as somewhat insane.

And if they succeed in passing this, I hope the state is willing to shell out money to the forced-mother of the baby to help care for it, if she doesn't have enough.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 12:12 AM
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Heck , I feel for you non demented people in the USA

How do these idiots get elected ?



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 01:09 AM
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As someone who is completely against abortion, even in the case of rape or incest, I am disturbed by this bill. It's gaming the system to get what you want in a way that should not be done, and in this case it is penalizing the victim. Pretty disgusting tactic.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by lampsalot
 



Just because the baby's father is a jerk doesn't mean their life couldn't possibly be worthwhile.


Absolutely true.

part of the reason it's pro-choice and not pro-abortion.


Just because the father is a jerk does not mean it's not a human life. Last I checked we had a term for someone who ended a human life without just cause ....



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by lampsalot

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Absolutely true.

part of the reason it's pro-choice and not pro-abortion.


I have a pretty unique view on abortion. I think it should be legal as long as it's done early, even though personally I think it's wrong.

Why? Because the public opinion is generally in favor of abortion, and I think no matter what my personal opinion on the stance is, a law can't change that. If 70% of the public believed that infanticide was okay, I would accept the futility in passing a law making it considered murder as well.

The best way to discourage abortion isn't to criminalize it but rather to make the alternative options, such as adoption easier and more importantly, to teach sex education.

I don't get why pro-lifers are so against contraception when they prevent abortion - shows what many of their true priorities are.


So if public opinion was of the mind a woman can kill her child at any time until the age of 10, you would be ok with that being legal? Accepting the futility of the situation does not mean accepting the situation. Otherwise blacks would still be slaves.






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