Ireland in 2013. No Country For Old Men.

reply to post by okamitengu

they did keep crap gangland crime and drug crime down.

No they didn't.

Quite the opposite actually - they were 'the gang'.
They ran the drug trade and any 'independant' dealers were dealt with quite severely - the usual punishment was kneecapping either with hammers, screwdrivers, guns or some other suitable weapon.
They ran the prostitution rings and extortion rackets and controlled the illegal gambling along with numerous other criminal activities.

Nationalist and Unionist para-militaries who were supposed to be 'at war' with each other even collaborated with each other in order to maximise their profits.

Internal squabbles were relatively frequent and quite often resulted in murder - usually conveniently blamed on 'the other side' to help maintain appearances.

It seems that you have a somewhat limited, blinkered and naive understanding and viewpoint.

As I said previously, people used the politics of The Troubles etc to justify and disguise their criminal activities - it is no longer that easy to do so.

reply to post by okamitengu


OK, I accept your apology, I get what you trying to say, Freeborn has it bang on though.
Loyalist and Republican terrorists do indeed control the drug trade on the whole island. They are not really anything other than gangsters and instead of being a cure for the problem would actually be a big part of it.
Even during the 'troubles' at high levels in these organisations they collaborated to bring things like drugs and cigarettes into the country to line their own pockets.
I can't really give you any proof of this but I am sure you know how these things go, if you live in a place you hear things through the 'grapevine' and such.

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by biggilo
There's enough guns on this island already, maybe you need to lay off smoking the wacky if you think we need more.
You make a good argument for social reforms and more funding to the Gards, thats about it.
Unless you just wanted to create a thread pandering to all the American gun lunatics?

Well exactly, this is the thing.... you don't want to go down the US route.
So if everyone of these pensioners or people living alone had guns... then instead of being punched in the face and robbed, they would be shot... and probably killed.

If you have GANGS of thugs going around with guns, what do you think one 90 year old person is going to do against these gangs?


Guns are not the answer.

Reversing the policing cuts and tackling the underlying issues is the ONLY way to sort this out.... not giving everyone guns.

edit on 25/1/13 by blupblup because: (no reason given)

This sounds good but pans out to farcical nonsense out in the real. Its the sort of crap that psychologist, sociologists and the politicians that pimp this crap like to blow off about. And you want an example? Use the US as an example here. They have been dumping money down that pipe dream for ever and now cant back off the point or give any ground for being in it so deep now. Their new solution is to drug up the whole dang countryside.

You see there is more money in it all the way around than to let the people arm themselves. BIG money and spread in those social reforms.

Originally posted by biggilo
reply to post by okamitengu

 

Loyalist and Republican terrorists do indeed control the drug trade on the whole island. They are not really anything other than gangsters and instead of being a cure for the problem would actually be a big part of it.
Even during the 'troubles' at high levels in these organisations they collaborated to bring things like drugs and cigarettes into the country to line their own pockets.

So you have an unarmed population but the gangsters still get along well. And thats what will happen in the US.

reply to post by Logarock

Has ICLEI already privatised your police force . Or do you even know what ICLEI is ? A privatised police force would be selective in enforcing and answer to their private corporation only . Where will that leave you when that corporation is working both sided of the law . That would maximise profits for the company . What kind of profit would be in protecting a poor old person .None!
The New World Order / UN population control Agenda 21 is working to depopulate the world , privatise all municipal services including Fire ,, Rescue , Police , Sanitation and Water and Electric Service now provided by the Municipal Governments . Will we pay a fee for everytime we call the police ?
ICLEI 's goal is to sneek in Agenda 21 and Socialism on steroids .

reply to post by Logarock


I get what your saying but it is a very different situation.
In America everyone is already armed and the country is flooded with guns. If you outlaw the guns all the honest law abiding people hand in the guns and the criminals keep theirs, we DO get it this side of the Atlantic. You are in a mess where the sensible system is unreachable without making things a lot worse first, or you go for more guns.
But as we all see you already have ridiculously high incarceration rates and homicide rates, 4 times the chance of being murdered in America than in Ireland, this IS because of your guns. Other countries DO look at the America example, that is why we don't arm ourselves.

The paramilitaries we talk about their are not the sort of people who are out mugging old ladies for their pension, if they turn up at your door and you live long enough to see them then you are in for a 'beating' the last thing you want to do is pull a gun on them at this point or you are dead, you may kill the 3-4 guys there at the time but more will come. Generally if they want you dead it will be something like plastic explosives below your car. They also are armed with MILITARY grade weapons, fully auto assault rifles, RPGs, High velocity sniper rifles etc. These guys are the part of the problem because it is they who supply the junkies with their heroin and can take blame for some of the economic problems. They are only mentioned here because a previous poster thought they might keep the feral youth under control.

The people out mugging old ladies don't have access to guns at present, legalising guns WOULD give them access. Of all countries in the EU Ireland is one of the worst hit by the banking crisis, it has completely ruined it, before the crisis the Irish would of had one of the highest incomes per head in the EU now there is MASS unemployment, zero jobs and zero prospects for their young. I think the OP himself mentioned it himself, all the educated young or those with trades have moved to Australia, Canada or England to get jobs.
This leaves behind those with no skills and are poorly educated in a country which has no jobs and a poor welfare state, generally the poor who quite often have been getting # upon by society before they were even born.
TBH me saying it is only junkies out committing the crimes we are talking about here isn't fair on these people, they haven't chosen their paths in life and certainly don't deserve to be shot.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by Logarock

 

Has ICLEI already privatised your police force . Or do you even know what ICLEI is ? A privatised police force would be selective in enforcing and answer to their private corporation only .

No. Is that the case for you then?

The feds over here have been for many years, slowly, gaining more influence with local police than they have with their own local governments. By dumping money into the thing. Citizens have lost the ability to control the cops, in many cases, by using the purse string because the fed will step in with funds. Over time many police units seem to take orders from washington than they do the locals. You even see political heads doing photo ops with cops all around them in the background.....as if they work for the federal will and dime. As if the local cops are an exstention of federal flow.

Originally posted by biggilo
reply to post by Logarock

 

I get what your saying but it is a very different situation. ....

The paramilitaries we talk about their are not the sort of people who are out mugging old ladies for their pension, if they turn up at your door and you live long enough to see them then you are in for a 'beating' the last thing you want to do is pull a gun on them at this point or you are dead, you may kill the 3-4 guys there at the time but more will come. Generally if they want you dead it will be something like plastic explosives below your car. They also are armed with MILITARY grade weapons, fully auto assault rifles, RPGs, High velocity sniper rifles etc. ....

The people out mugging old ladies don't have access to guns at present, legalising guns WOULD give them access. Of all countries in the EU Ireland is one of the worst hit by the banking crisis, it has completely ruined it, before the crisis the Irish would of had one of the highest incomes per head in the EU now there is MASS unemployment, zero jobs and zero prospects for their young. I think the OP himself mentioned it himself, all the educated young or those with trades have moved to Australia, Canada or England to get jobs.
This leaves behind those with no skills and are poorly educated in a country which has no jobs and a poor welfare state, generally the poor who quite often have been getting # upon by society before they were even born.
TBH me saying it is only junkies out committing the crimes we are talking about here isn't fair on these people, they haven't chosen their paths in life and certainly don't deserve to be shot.

My point was that you still have this armed up gangster culture??? Sounds like payoffs being made asses covered. Thats what would happen here....whatever the cause or result otherwise....the gangsters would have guns and they would be getting light sentence for using while some homeowner would go to jail for 5 years for protecting his own. Sounds like an unbearable convoluted mess.

We had a guy shot to death in his home the other day by a robber. We have also had robbers get shot to death as well. We would rather have this than the result of some progressive interpretation of economics and crime giving the home invaders a pass of sorts. We even tried that for years and the result was in the end more and more homeowners protecting themselves with guns and laws being passed to protect the homeowner that does use a gun on an invader.

reply to post by Logarock


The 'armed up gangster culture' wouldn't comprise of more than a couple of thousand people at most, if that. They hide behind so called political ideologies and get romanticised by foreigners and Hollywood. And I stress again, these aren't guys who go around breaking into houses and mugging people. They will occasionally kill some innocent policeman, prison officer or soldier this side of the border to keep their supporters happy and maintain the illusion whilst bring in container loads of drugs to the island. Arming the average citizen because these guys are around just doesn't make sense, unless you want us all to go vigilante on them
Incidentally, this side of the border where these guys carry out most of their attacks our police are armed.

The big conspiracy here REALLY isn't about guns or lack of, it's the fat cat bankers and corrupt politicians, they have really made a mess of Ireland for the average citizen and put Ireland DEEPLY in the pockets of Brussels (EU).
When you consider facts like when the Irish don't vote a particular way that they (Brussels) make them vote again (until they vote the right way) it does all look rather fishy.
I CAN understand where you are coming from especially with the debate that is raging your side of the Atlantic.
Burglars breaking in and attacking the homeowners is a very rare occurrence here relatively speaking but nonetheless crime IS on the rise for the reasons I have mentioned. Arming ourselves isn't gonna solve that problem just make it worse and create other ones.
Most people who are truly worried about security here tend to get themselves guard dogs which is something that works just fine as a deterrence in just the same way as knowing you own a gun does where you are, remember the guys breaking into the houses here will be unarmed or carrying nothing more than a knife or baseball/cricket bat. Of course sometimes dogs get hurt but it works both ways if we had guns sometimes the homeowner would still get hurt. The irony of the matter is that you could get yourself a harsher sentence for hurting a dog than you would for hurting a human.

America is not a place for the week of heart . We actually make decisions for our selves over here . We don't have that beer pub mentality over here . We like our guns and lots of them . We don't like your stooge Piers Morgan the lilly livered NWO piss ant .

reply to post by SimonPeter


Aside form you claiming he is 'mine' or 'ours' or 'yours' I don't disagree with you over Piers, he is the embodiment of a tosser.
Crying at British people about him is a bit silly though, we more or less kicked him out, his career was finished over here YEARS ago, we weren't the ones stupid enough to give him a job, why not go vent your anger about him to them? You would be hard put to find a single British person (in fact anyone from anywhere) who will stick up for him.
Not sure what Piers Morgan has to do with what we are talking about here though...

Beer pub mentality? want to explain that one out a bit and how it is relevant here cos you lost me. Maybe explain the 'weak of heart' bit too, are you trying to imply something?

And mate, the whole world knows Americans like their guns and lots of them you really don't need to reiterate that.

reply to post by biggilo


What did Piers do to you people ? And how did you get rid of him? Was he a New World Order bugle blower from hell over there . And I'll bet he has a gunman with an automatic protect him day and night .

reply to post by SimonPeter


He is a wee scumbag, he falsified photographs of British soldiers supposedly torturing Iraqi prisoners and published them in the newspaper he was editor of (Daily Mirror). I am sure you don't need me to explain the extra dangers this put our troops in.
This was in 2004, it is why most of us were flabbergasted anyone would ever give him a job in journalism again never mind something as prestigious as a a show on CNN in America.
He truly must have friends in very low places.

reply to post by SimonPeter


Sorry, but I really don't undrstand what point you were trying to make in your last post - and where is the relevance with this thread?

America is not a place for the week of heart .

How so?

And so what?

Does that make it something special in a strange, unfathomable way?

We actually make decisions for our selves over here .

Really? When? How?

Sorry to shatter some delusions you may have but the USA isn't really that special or different to most other places.

We don't have that beer pub mentality over here .

I don't really understand what you are trying to get at here.....but whatever it is maybe you should have, pubs are good.

We like our guns and lots of them .

So what?

You are quite welcome to them.

We don't like your stooge Piers Morgan the lilly livered NWO piss ant .

See, we do have something in common after all, we don't like him as well - he's generally regarded as a complete twat over here, actually that's probably being quite mild and restrained.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by biggilo

 

What did Piers do to you people ? And how did you get rid of him? Was he a New World Order bugle blower from hell over there . And I'll bet he has a gunman with an automatic protect him day and night .

he lied about british soldiers and printed fake pictures in his newspaper that showed them torturing Iraqi's and as I said they were fake. So he got the sack as the editor of the Daily Mirror.
He then became a ' Britain's Got Talent' judge,
He is a bit of a silly man if you ask me.

reply to post by biggilo


He seems to be pushing the NWO Agenda. I don't know if you know about the NWO Globalist UN thing that is being shoved down our throat now ,but they need to disarm us to do it successfully and that is why we are having this gun problem now . The UN push died in Congress so we have another really heart breaking shooting where some white kid on mind altering prescription drugs kills sweet little children to get things stirred up again . The thing is that the same thing was used to disarm the UK . The other thing is that there are a lot of inconsistencies reported by people who are supposed to be competent . The Federal Investagators stated that an AR was found in the trunk of the car . The killker had only hand guns in the class room . There was a camoflaged man running from the scene who was caught and not detained . There were no witnesses left alive . The timing of this event is suspicious . We the USA are the last capably armed country that could stop such a push to enslave the free world by the Globalist . Agenda21 includes a massive population reduction in it . The lapsed time for this reduction will be short .This same scenerio is prophesied in the Bible and you are not immune to the plan because you live in the UK . The Banksters who are at the top of this power grab could care less about you .

reply to post by SimonPeter


The only agenda Piers Morgan is pushing is his own, he has seized upon this whole thing as it has put him right in the spotlight and that is where he thrives. We are ALL conspiracy believers here but even the NWO would have more sense than to use a muppet like him to push their agenda. Yes, it MAY be their agenda he is pushing but that is just coincidence. His reputation as I think you now see is trashed this side of the Atlantic and is on a slippery slope on yours, the NWO are much smarter than this.

I don't dispute there might be something fishy going on where you live about the whole guns thing etc, I don't really know enough about these events to talk about it though.

What I can say is I personally have faith in the British Army, or at least individuals therein. Very contentious thing to say in this thread (being about Ireland and all..) but nonetheless I do. I think most British people if you ask them would agree with me too, or maybe I am a bit naive there.
I know there is various psychological things done to American troops to basically train them to fire without question but i think if it came to the crunch you could and maybe should have a bit more faith in them, or again at least certain individuals therein.

reply to post by biggilo


They and when I say they I mean the Rockefellers and other Banksters who have uttered the very UN and NWO who live here in America have provided themselves with UN troops who have no allegiance to America . The questionnaire about will you fire on American citizens has already been asked with less than desirable results so UN troops no doubt will do it . Our soldiers took the oath to protect our Constitution and Bill of Rights against all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC . Especially domestic .
Very possibly when we fall their plan to impliment Agenda 21 on Europe and North America as well as Austraila . But first they have to take our capability to fight with capable weapons away from us or get bogged down in another Viet Namn style war . So you see why we want to keep our guns . Right now you can not find Ammo but it's coming . And you will not like Agenda 21 . I guess right now you are about on your way to work . Have a good day .