My Quick Review, Summary & Commentary on Research Related to Violent Video Games and Increased Viole

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posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by pryed -eyed-one
This entire subject matter is rediculous
They are video GAMES. End of story.


Sooooooooooo, I'm curious . . .

Is it your belief . . . and I mean BELIEF . . .

that

propaganda, experience, fantasies, games, traumas, dramas, great loss, . . .

all have

0.000000000000000000000000% impact on the brain, the organism, the individual?

Certainly the porn industry disagrees with you, if so.

Certainly the Agenda 21 globalist controllers responsible for so much death, violence etc. in the media and games disagree with you.

Most of the people with all the money to fund such things disagree with you.

Have you ever wondered what they know that you don't?




posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:49 AM
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It doesn't take a genius to figure out that FPS games in particular cause, at the very least more aggresive behaviour.

It's classic Pavlonian stuff... you get rewarded each time you kill someone in a game. The more you kill... the more you're rewarded.

The games these days are extremely realistic and only serve to desensitize people to violence.... as the study indicates.

At the very least, these games should be kept out of the hands of children whose minds are still developing.
edit on 24-1-2013 by Blarneystoner because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by Blarneystoner

It's classic Pavlonian stuff... you get rewarded each time you kill someone in a game. The more you kill... the more you're rewarded.

The games these days are extremely realistic and only serve to desensitize people to violence.... as the study indicates.

At the very least, these games should be kept out of the hands of children whose minds are still developing.


ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

Though many just don't 'get it.'

It is as though . . . welllll, more than 'as though' . . .

It IS

TRAINING for mass murder and mayhem . . . exactly what they want multiplied many times over.

Gotta get that population down to 200-500 million globally . . . easier to maintain their power structure that way.

Though they'll claim . . . it's "for the children."


Barf . . . {for the hypocrisy.}

And, for the 'environment.'

As though they cared . . . except that they want the whole planet returned to it's 'natural state' as their exclusive playground.


Seeds of murder, gore, bloody mayhem . . .

only produce

fruits of murder, gore, bloody mayhem . . .

Life teaches that . . . alas . . . only to those paying attention . . . to the more . . . substantial . . . non-gamnig realities.
.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 06:18 AM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
1. The "emphatic" I was talking about was the brain physiology, brain imaging facts that have been discovered. There is NO DOUBT that the DIFFERENCES are TANGIBLY OBJECTIVELY REAL. Emphatically so.


First and this is just a personal observation but random all-capped words make me think you are not intelligent (just my opinion; it smacks of a "look at me" factor that I personally have a pet-peeve against); don't take that to say I am not understanding what you are trying to convey. Maybe I am from the older generation that understood when one needs to emphasize words or meaning, they use the correct word to do so rather than just place a word in bold. I digress though.

Looking at the data you presented they make a point that should be highlighted...

In science, correlation doesn't imply causation.

It could be that people who played the violent video games were already predisposed to such aggression; this is why I label your study as subjective. It provide no empirical evidence and is all circumstantial. Your premise is equal to saying "Men who view smut videos are more likely to go out and perform acts that mimic those videos". While on the surface it would seem valid; it isn't. Maybe those men who were studied were already predisposed to such actions.


3. The impacts and implications vary with degree, each individual's physiology and conditioning; with the CONTEXT; with the values; etc. etc. etc.


What?


4. YES, IF you HAVE BEEN playing extensive amounts of games which are extremely violent etc, THEN YOUR BRAIN WILL HAVE CHANGED TOWARD greater desensitization regarding violence; greater propensity toward violence as a solution to problems etc. etc. etc.


I have no desensitization towards violence. It is crappy, ugly and out right frightening in certain situations. I cannot picture myself engaging in some of the acts portrayed in video games. While I am just one, I think I represent the majority here.


5. WHETHER OR NOT THAT degree of difference IN YOUR case would potentially MORE LIKELY erupt into dramatic acted out physical violence is a whole 'NOTHER issue--an extremely complex one involving a LOT of factors.


So....since I don't claim to follow the study you presented, it is a complex one? Could it be that the study linked is......subjective? Flawed? Incomplete? Not enough data to draw a definitive conclusion?



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 06:27 AM
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Originally posted by Blarneystoner
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that FPS games in particular cause, at the very least more aggresive behaviour.

It's classic Pavlonian stuff... you get rewarded each time you kill someone in a game. The more you kill... the more you're rewarded.


You are over-stating Pavlovian theory; or you don't really understand it as applied to humans. We can take 100 dogs and apply Pavlovian theory to them and our results should be close to 100% in achieving behavior modification.

This simply isn't true in terms of the human psyche. Some will find the conditioning to be monotonous; others boring; some may even take it and run; while others discard it all together. A creature dependent on another may fully accept the theory, but for the most part, reasoning kicks in, moral base kicks in, consciousness kicks in; and such a theory falls apart.


The games these days are extremely realistic and only serve to desensitize people to violence.... as the study indicates.


They only serve to desensitize? Where in the the study did it prove that? Or was that a conjecture made by the author?


At the very least, these games should be kept out of the hands of children whose minds are still developing.


The video game industry already voluntarily assigns ratings to their titles; so what else do you propose? Governmental bans? ID to purchase a game? Maybe a background check too?



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 08:49 AM
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reply to post by ownbestenemy
 


Listen... first off... don't try to tell me what I do or do not understand... you don't know a damn thing about me.

Whatever you want to call it... positive reinforcment of any behaviour.. whether it's virtual or not is pretty much standard training technique... human or not.

...and why not restrict the sale to minors? Porn is regulated in a way that it cannot be sold to minors. Movie ratings systems take into account the amount violence, nudity, sexual content and language.

edit on 25-1-2013 by Blarneystoner because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by ownbestenemy

Originally posted by BO XIAN
. . . . Emphatically so.


First and this is just a personal observation but random all-capped words make me think you are not intelligent (just my opinion; it smacks of a "look at me" factor that I personally have a pet-peeve against); don't take that to say I am not understanding what you are trying to convey. Maybe I am from the older generation that understood when one needs to emphasize words or meaning, they use the correct word to do so rather than just place a word in bold. I digress though.


[color=6699FF]
I understand that some are annoyed by such. Personally, I could get annoyed by such annoyed attitudes. LOL. At 65, with my screen 4' from my eyes, I LIKE all CAPS. Further, I have an affinity for them from 30+ years of writing in ALL CAPS on the blackboard for 30-75 students in my classes to easily see from the back row.



Looking at the data you presented they make a point that should be highlighted...

In science, correlation doesn't imply causation.


It could be that people who played the violent video games were already predisposed to such aggression; this is why I label your study as subjective. It provide no empirical evidence and is all circumstantial. Your premise is equal to saying "Men who view smut videos are more likely to go out and perform acts that mimic those videos". While on the surface it would seem valid; it isn't. Maybe those men who were studied were already predisposed to such actions.



[color=6699FF]
That's BESIDE the point. That's IN ADDITION to the point. That does NOT NEGATE the point. The effects of the video games would, of course, WORSEN such a case.



3. The impacts and implications vary with degree, each individual's physiology and conditioning; with the CONTEXT; with the values; etc. etc. etc.


What?



[color=6699FF]
I thought that was an obvious sentence.
1. Every person is different in their genetics.

2. Every person has different rearing experiences--even identical twins.

3. Every person (even identical twins) has their own personal idiosyncratic responses to every moment by moment set of stimuli. And they may have a different response today than yesterday or tomorrow depending on their diet, hormonal highs and lows, the weather, their relational inputs, gas, arthritis, obsessive thoughts . . . etc.

4. Every person has a different set of values, priorities, trigger issues and trigger levels--and those fluctuate differently.

etc. etc. etc.




I have no desensitization towards violence. It is crappy, ugly and out right frightening in certain situations. I cannot picture myself engaging in some of the acts portrayed in video games. While I am just one, I think I represent the majority here.


[color=6699FF]
WRONG. IF you have immersed yourself in repeated violent stimuli, it is IMPOSSIBLE for your brain to NOT have been at least somewhat habituated to, desensitized to said violence. It would be provable by an fMRI. The neural pathways associated with such have been thickened and multiplied. Now, the DEGREE of such desensitization is a different issue. The FACT of at least SOME desensitization is scientifically unarguable. You would have had to have been BRAIN DEAD for such desensitization to have NOT occurred.



5. WHETHER OR NOT THAT degree of difference IN YOUR case would potentially MORE LIKELY erupt into dramatic acted out physical violence is a whole 'NOTHER issue--an extremely complex one involving a LOT of factors.


So....since I don't claim to follow the study you presented, it is a complex one? Could it be that the study linked is......subjective? Flawed? Incomplete? Not enough data to draw a definitive conclusion?

[color=6699FF]
The studies I have emphasized have been SUMMARIES of several dozen to a few HUNDRED other quality studies. And, one of the studies summarized--I forget if I've posted it yet--documents that the relationship is NOT JUST CORRELATIONAL but IS CAUSAL. That finding is a solid, unambiguous, unsubjective scientific fact.

Further, the BRAIN PHYSIOLOGY findings are NOT SUBJECTIVE. fMRI and other brain analysis techniques have documented the PHYSIOLOGICAL CHANGES as a function of the violent stimuli.

I think you are plenty bright to keep up a bit better than you seem to be bothering to do.

.
edit on 25/1/2013 by BO XIAN because: fix tags
edit on 25/1/2013 by BO XIAN because: ditto
edit on 25/1/2013 by BO XIAN because: (no reason given)
edit on 25/1/2013 by BO XIAN because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by ownbestenemy

Originally posted by Blarneystoner
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that FPS games in particular cause, at the very least more aggresive behaviour.

It's classic Pavlonian stuff... you get rewarded each time you kill someone in a game. The more you kill... the more you're rewarded.



Wellllll, lots of solid research is indicating exactly so. And, that the relationship IS causal.

Certainly there are LOTs of factors; context etc. but that fact remains true--regardless of the other stuff. And, the issue of DEGREE is always an important one. That is, that the DEGREE of MORE aggressive behavior will vary according to a list of factors per individual and per context.



You are over-stating Pavlovian theory; or you don't really understand it as applied to humans. We can take 100 dogs and apply Pavlovian theory to them and our results should be close to 100% in achieving behavior modification.

This simply isn't true in terms of the human psyche. Some will find the conditioning to be monotonous; others boring; some may even take it and run; while others discard it all together. A creature dependent on another may fully accept the theory, but for the most part, reasoning kicks in, moral base kicks in, consciousness kicks in; and such a theory falls apart.


Yes and no.

There [color=6699FF]IS a relationship between immersion in violent images, choices and ations--even if at a passive movie or certainly with an active video game--between immersion in violent images and events and increased aggressiveness on the part of said watcher/game player. And, the relationship IS causal.

Beyond that general truth, the DEGREE of increased aggressiveness DOES depend on a LIST of factors WITHIN the person and within the context--including the context of their other relationships. e.g. it is reasonable to expect that [color=6699FF]the MORE LIKE the video game that the individual's daily life, persons, relationships and context are--THEN THE MORE influence toward more aggression will be the case.

However, regardless, there WILL BE SOME increased tendency, propensity toward aggression. It has become, as it were, HARD WIRED into that individual's brain.


OF COURSE, WHETHER OR NOT said increased propensity toward aggression SURFACES in increased aggressive language, voice tones, body language, choices, body movements, violent actions etc. etc. OR NOT--depends on a list of other factors.

It is CONCEIVABLE that the aggressiveness increase for some folks moderately 'into' said games would functionally be limited to their dreams . . . or perhaps on the sports field . . . etc. But NOT NECESSARILY. There IS an increased potential for yelling more at the spouse and/or kids . . . and given sufficient immersion; sufficient triggers in daily life etc., there could also be a significantly increased potential . . . even probability, for many--in their hitting their spouse and/or kids and/or co-workers.

IT JUST DEPENDS . . . on a lot of factors.




The games these days are extremely realistic and only serve to desensitize people to violence.... as the study indicates.


They only serve to desensitize? Where in the the study did it prove that? Or was that a conjecture made by the author?


I don't have the chapter and verse handy.

However, it's fairly elementary.
[color=6699FF]THAT'S JUST THE WAY THE BRAIN WORKS.

And it's NOT JUST regarding violence.

ANYTHING THE BRAIN IS SUBJECTED TO frequently and a lot, THAT will become MORE HARDWIRED into the brain. The nerve cells will become thickened and more numerous regarding whatever that immersed topic, thing is.

It's like neuro-science has documented that

[color=6699FF]AS A MAN THINKS IN HIS HEART--SO IS HE.

ANYTHING
that we
1. THINK ABOUT OBSESSIVELY, RELENTLESSLY, FREQUENTLY, INTENSELY;
2. TALK ABOUT A LOT
3. FANTASIZE A LOT
4. WATCH A LOT
5. ACT OUT A LOT

BECOMES MORE HARDWIRED IN OUR BRAINS.

If it's food and food fantasies--it will be those pathways.
If it's porn and porn fantasies--it will be those pathways.

If it's loving thoughts about spouse and kids, it will be those pathways.
If it's God and a loving relationship with God, it will be those pathways.

If it's sports, it will be those pathways.
If it's insecurities, self-pity, depression, it will be those pathways.

If it's genuine affirmations and encouragements, it will be those pathways.
If it's fears and paranoia, it will be those pathways.

[color=6699FF]
If it's violence, IT WILL BE THOSE PATHWAYS.

edit on 25/1/2013 by BO XIAN because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by Blarneystoner
reply to post by ownbestenemy
 


Whatever you want to call it... positive reinforcment of any behaviour.. whether it's virtual or not is pretty much standard training technique... human or not.


ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

[color=6699FF]OTHERWISE, LEARNING anything about anything . . . could not, would not occur.

The conditioning stimuli in the games and movies function automatically as CONDITIONING. One would have to be brain dead, literally--at least in key areas of the brain--for that NOT to be the case for all individuals.

[color=6699FF]
ALL the IMMERSION in the conditioning stimuli in the video game and/or movies

is hundreds to thousands of hours of REHEARSAL.

And all it takes, could take, would take to trigger similar acting out behavior

would be for

THE STAGE TO BE SET somewhat similarly . . . wherein the context in setting or the context in face to face relationships resembled the game or movie SUFFICIENTLY

AT A KEY emotional moment
in a KEY RESPECT OR WAY(s)

And the 100's to thousands of hours of REHEARSAL

WOULD BE acted out quite brazenly, if not intensely.


The person might wonder afterwards what 'caused' their acting out. . . . failing to realize the connection between the 100's to 1,000's of hours of REHEARSAL.

The brain--particularly the unconscious--is NOT impervious to conditioning--particularly such emotionally intense conditioning as so many of the games are now.


...and why not restrict the sale to minors? Porn is regulated in a way that it cannot be sold to minors. Movie ratings systems take into account the amount violence, nudity, sexual content and language.


Great points. Thx.
.
.
edit on 25/1/2013 by BO XIAN because: addition
edit on 25/1/2013 by BO XIAN because: spelling typo



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 06:52 AM
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Originally posted by Blarneystoner
...and why not restrict the sale to minors? Porn is regulated in a way that it cannot be sold to minors. Movie ratings systems take into account the amount violence, nudity, sexual content and language.


States do so at the whim of their citizens as so is their Right to do under the 10th Amendment -- they can choose not to if they so wish. Show me the law that restricts movie theaters from allowing a minor to enter a "R" rated movie....



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 07:53 AM
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I notice one little glitch in the study's you are promoting so much.

They are claiming that the brain is responding the exact same way playing violent video games as when actually experiencing or committing actual violence in the real world?

BS! How on earth do these little desk dunks in lab coats being paid by someone with an agenda to find results congruent with that agenda know what is going on in the brain of a person while he's actually committing an act of physical violence?

Since the OP is so high and mighty about others not thinking hard enough about the "complex problem" his thread professes. I invite the OP the think of the logistics of recording what is going on in a human brains mind while it is committing an act / or even experiencing an act of REAL violence. How'd they get that info? How would they? How even can they? Put a serial killer in a MRI while he's strangling a live chicken to death? Have EKG's and CatScans going on a guy while he is fending of a guy with a knife who tries to stab him without warning while coming home late at night?

Obviously not. And obviously it means they don't have a actual picture of what's really going on in the mind of someone while either experiencing or committing actual violence. And don't say "but yes they do. They do simulated violence to scare them. Like show scary pictures up in front their face and recording their reactions. Sometimes the scientists even jump out of a closet in the lab with an air horn to startle the test subjects while they have electrodes all over their heads!"

Simulated violence is NOTHING like real violence. Having experienced both, I can say that the two are nothing alike. NOTHING ALIKE. AT ALL. I am certain a whole hell of a lot more is going on in the brain during incidents of real violence then any lab will ever be able to deduce or observe with the current level of technology. The two do not feel the same the brain isn't doing the same things and they are not experienced the same. Sure a lot of the same chemical reactions and parts of the brain are being stimulated like in the studies in an actual encounter with violence. But to say that that is all the recipe needed to make someone a violent person and it can all be found in violent video games and movies is like saying a box of flour is all you need to make pancakes but not disclosing that you still need sugar, water, heat and a whole other assortment of factors.

Think violent video games come any where close to turning people into violent individuals? Then keep grasping I guess. Because I can tell you that even participating in things that actually do require the person to engage in mild violence like sparing at the local tae kwon do or MMA McDojo down the street will not prepare or even come close to simulating what happens in real life violent encounters.

I would look a little deeper in your thesis there OP regarding violent video games being anything more than a tinsy factor in why kids grow up to be violent teenagers, young adults or even full grown adults. Try looking more in the direction of- violent tendencies develop generally in young adults do to being exposed to violence in REAL LIFE (remember what's going on in the brain is nothing similar to when watching a violent game or movie) during their formative years and earlier. Thats what develops psychopaths. Not mock violence. Real violence.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 07:58 AM
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And if you want to call it positive reinforcement to play video games. I say it's hardly enough.

Although I'm not a fan of the show Penn and Tellers: Bull@&#^!!! there was an episode on just this matter. They got some kid who play violent video games all day. Call of Duty, Modern Warfare, Halo. You name it. This little boy was the king of online first person shooters. So they invite him down to the local gun range to shoot an actual AR15 since he runs around with one for hours every day, shooting people, every day -ONLINE. Their the same right. He'll be a pro.

The 10 year old held the rifle. Pulled the trigger... ... and instantly started crying hysterically. Turned out real violence is NOTHING like mock fake violence in video games or movies. The games did nothing to prepare him for actual violence whether committing it or defending against it.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by Blarneystoner
 


I gotta disagree with video games and their violence being extremely realistic. There is nothing realistic about video game or movie violence to the actual experience. No fidelity what so ever. They are two totally different experiences and it's pure naivete to think that the blood and guts of games like mortal combat and call of duty are even similar to the real thing. Not emotionally, not physically and not psychologically. You could say that real world violence is a whole other game.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 09:10 AM
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4. YES, IF you HAVE BEEN playing extensive amounts of games which are extremely violent etc, THEN YOUR BRAIN WILL HAVE CHANGED TOWARD greater desensitization regarding violence; greater propensity toward violence as a solution to problems etc. etc. etc.

That ones my personal favorite right there. In short. No. Dude. It doesn't work like that. Take some guy who's the king of Street Fighter, Tekken, Mortal Combat (these are all video games that focus on hand to hand combat and are fairly violent)

Now take same guy to the park and and lightly test his reaction times under mild pressure. Ie... lightly throw jabs and crosses and see how he reacts. Well to save you the trouble of going out and testing this yourself. From experience I'll tell you what will happen. His nervous system will override everything in him and he will freeze up, respond clumsily and like any other complete novice out there with ZERO real world experience. And he will find that although he may be the king of video games he is actually incapable of actually acting out those same acts played in the video games in real life. Turned out that real life was nothing like vide games or movies and all of that 'training and conditioning" ( ie playing video games) was really off the mark and downright worthless.

Your argument is about as stupid, yes stupid, as saying that because a guy watches a lot or porn he knows what sex feels like. Well for the 40 year old virgins living in their mom's basements, they know thats obviously not true. See your starting your whole argument from a false premise, which as anyone who has taken basic logic 101 courses in either high school or college will know makes your claim illogical by definition.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 09:25 AM
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Also don't try and say that it at least makes them more likely to be aggressive and use violence to solve their problems. Take same kid who plays violent video games all day and put him in the situation where he has the option with all of it's consequences to use actual brutal violence to solve their problem and I bet they back down. Turned out real world conditions are a little more overwhelming than any video game can desensitize one to. And no amount of exposure or conditioning with a medium that actually is so dissimilar to actual violence is going to make up for that and turn one over to 'the dark side" or whatever. People being slightly more cruel to each other in a lab under controlled conditions where everybody knows no real harm or discomfort is being done after playing a bout of video games is in no way indicative of what one would do outside those parameters of the lab.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by BASSPLYR
I notice one little glitch in the study's you are promoting so much.

They are claiming that the brain is responding the exact same way playing violent video games as when actually experiencing or committing actual violence in the real world?


[color=6699FF]
No. They are not and I'm NOT claiming "the exact same way. I chose my words very carefully. I suggest you read them again
.

However, I would say that [color=6699FF]with SOME people in SOME contexts, with SOME levels of such conditioning, with SOME types of triggering factors at SOME LEVELS of stimulation in SOME contexts, the DIFFERENCES between exactly and less exact would FUNCTIONALLY be negligible.



How on earth do these little desk dunks in lab coats being paid by someone with an agenda to find results congruent with that agenda know what is going on in the brain of a person while he's actually committing an act of physical violence?


Some of the experimental designs of some of the studies are quite sophisticated. Reliable inferences are justified. Certainly the experimental substitute violence and aggression will not be IDENTICAL. Neither will they be soooo different as to be uninstructive.



. . . Have EKG's and CatScans going on a guy while he is fending of a guy with a knife who tries to stab him without warning while coming home late at night?

Obviously not. And obviously it means they don't have a actual picture of what's really going on in the mind of someone while either experiencing or committing actual violence. And don't say "but yes they do. They do simulated violence to scare them. Like show scary pictures up in front their face and recording their reactions. Sometimes the scientists even jump out of a closet in the lab with an air horn to startle the test subjects while they have electrodes all over their heads!"

Simulated violence is NOTHING like real violence. Having experienced both, I can say that the two are nothing alike. NOTHING ALIKE. AT ALL. I am certain a whole . . . of a lot more is going on in the brain during incidents of real violence then any lab will ever be able to deduce or observe with the current level of technology.


[color=6699FF]Actually, you overstate the case. That's NOT QUITE true. It's certainly not as true as you seem to make it out to be. The technology exists to essentially fairly sophisticatedly read thoughts from the helmets in the field. I don't know how many researchers, that are published publically, have had access to such technology but it does exist.

More importantly, the differences are evidently hypothesized by you as GREATLY SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT.

In terms of my points, they are NOT THAT DIFFERENT.


The basic brain mechanisms are known. [color=6699FF]THOSE MECHANISMS DON'T CHANGE WHETHER THE STIMULI ARE FICTIONAL OR TANGIBLE FACE TO FACE.

You are describing qualitative and quantitative differences. In terms of my points, those differences--while they may seem greatly different and significant to most laymen--are just not that significant.

You seem to be saying that the vast amount (quantity) of information in a real life situation is significantly GREATER. Sure. No argument there.

HOWEVER, ON THAT SCORE, perhaps you've experienced enough real life traumas to recall that IN THAT REAL LIFE SITUATION, your emotional and mental systems START LOPPING OFF SOME OF THAT QUANTITY [color=6699FF] and automatically focus down on the HIGHEST PRIORITY INPUTS from that enhanced quantity.

The same thing happens with the QUALITY of inputs. Hearing of critical things may be heightened, for example.


Had to delete some paragraphs due to the character limit so will continue in the next post.

.
edit on 26/1/2013 by BO XIAN because: tag fix



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by BASSPLYR

Simulated violence is NOTHING like real violence.


[color=6699FF]
That's simply objectively, scientifically hyperbolically UNTRUE, FALSE, WRONG, uninformed HOGWASH
.

1. The stimuli [color=6699FF]information travels ESSENTIALLY most of the SAME nerve pathways to ESSENTIALLY the SAME BRAIN CENTERS triggering ESSENTIALLY the SAME or highly SIMILAR reflexes, hormones, cortisol flooding the blood stream etc. Yes, there are measureable differences but they are rather slight.

2. [color=6699FF]ESSENTIALLY The same nerve pathways get thickened and multiplied.

3. The computerized conditioning training games in the military have [color=6699FF]proven to be extremely valuable in terms of preparing, ESTABLISHING, REINFORCING reflexes for REAL LIFE COMBAT situations. There IS a LOT of similarity, overlap, SAMENESS. PRETENDING, fantasizing otherwise is NOT TRUE-TO-LIFE.

I could list on but I'll stop there for now.



Having experienced both, I can say that the two are nothing alike. NOTHING ALIKE. AT ALL. I am certain a whole hell of a lot more is going on in the brain during incidents of real violence then any lab will ever be able to deduce or observe with the current level of technology.


See above. Evidently you are glossing over, trashing, negating, ignoring, at least some of the similarities you, yourself experienced in favor of blathering about your biases on the matter.



The two do not feel the same


[color=6699FF]Uhhhhhhhh . . . HINT . . . FEELINGS are only a PART of the picture. And, I have every confidence that were a sophisticated brain scan to have been made of you in both contexts . . . and/or were you to have been interviewed in a sophisticated way--a GREAT DEAL of even similar feelings would have been ferreted out.

Sure there are differences. However, my points have to do with [color=6699FF]how those differences are negligible in terms of the facts of DESENSITIZATION TO VIOLENCE; thickening of nerve pathways supportive of violence; multiplying of nerve cells along pathways supportive of violence; lowering of thresholds resulting in triggering of behavioral violence etc.



the brain isn't doing the same things and they are not experienced the same. Sure a lot of the same chemical reactions and parts of the brain are being stimulated like in the studies in an actual encounter with violence. But to say that that is all the recipe needed to make someone a violent person and it can all be found in violent video games and movies is like saying a box of flour is all you need to make pancakes but not disclosing that you still need sugar, water, heat and a whole other assortment of factors.


1. Your analogy is not very apt.
2.[color=6699FF] I've not said that was ALL that was needed to result in behavioral violence. I've chosen my words very carefully and have EMPHASIZED that context and A LOT OF OTHER VARIABLES are at play.



Because I can tell you that even participating in things that actually do require the person to engage in mild violence like sparing at the local tae kwon do or MMA McDojo down the street will not prepare or even come close to simulating what happens in real life violent encounters.




". . . or even come close . . . ]


That's a critical question. I insist that in MANY CASES with MANY INDIVIDUALS, it will not only come close, it will set them up to be pushed over the edge into violent action in MANY (not all) critical contexts way above average. Generalizing from your own EXTREMELY SUBJECTIVE experience will not help their victims, then.

And, [color=6699FF]the SOLID OBJECTIVE SCIENTIFIC research findings are on my side of that issue.



. . . Try looking more in the direction of- violent tendencies develop generally in young adults do to being exposed to violence in REAL LIFE (remember what's going on in the brain is nothing similar to when watching a violent game or movie) during their formative years and earlier. Thats what develops psychopaths. Not mock violence. Real violence.


It's more than a "tinsy" factor in the lives of those

[color=6699FF]WHO HAVE BEEN COMPROMISED BY HORRIFIC ATTACHMENT DISORDER FOSTERING ROTTEN PARENTING. YES, THE REAL VIOLENCE DOES HAVE A HUGE FACTOR TO PLAY in those lives
.

You seem to be ignoring the FACT THAT there are MILLIONS of RAD damaged folks. And I mean physiologically brain damaged. MRI's document that significant RAD--ATTACHMENT DISORDER results in OBJECTIVELY MEASUREABLE BRAIN DAMAGE.

There are 10's of millions of individuals running around with such brain damage. I'm one of them. You may well be one of them.

rats, out of characters

.
edit on 26/1/2013 by BO XIAN because: tag fix



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by BASSPLYR
 


continued

You seem to be ignoring [color=6699FF]the FACT THAT there are MILLIONS of RAD damaged folks. And I mean physiologically brain damaged. MRI's document that significant RAD--ATTACHMENT DISORDER results in OBJECTIVELY MEASUREABLE BRAIN DAMAGE.

There are 10's of millions of individuals running around with such brain damage. I'm one of them. You may well be one of them.

On the continuum of folks with SIGNIFICANT RAD all the way to folks with horrific extremely intense amounts and qualities of RAD (REACTIVE ATTACHMENT DISORDER/ATTACHMENT DISORDER--I don't usually distinguish in such discussions, typically between the types of Attachment Disorder) there is a RANGE of folks

[color=6699FF]who are extremely VULNERABLE to any and all additional SET-UPS leaving them highly triggerable toward acting out violence on those in their lives--particularly spouses and children.

There [color=6699FF]ARE many factors CONTRIBUTING to such acted out violent behaviors:

[color=6699FF]1. Alcohol
2. speed, meth
3. relationship, environmental frustration;
4. the DEGREE OF ATTACHMENT DISORDER;

5. the DEGREE the RAD has been worked through, healed, overcome, or not;
6. the DEGREE in quantity and INTENSITY of violent video games and how closely they match the childhood experiences, values, themes, emotions, relationships, conflicts of the individual;

7. the DEGREE in quantity and INTENSITY of violent movies, TV shows and how closely they match the childhood experiences, values, themes, emotions, relationships, conflicts of the individual
;

etc. etc. etc.

Yes, there will be even RAD folks with lots of gaming who will never to rarely act out physically violently on those in their daily lives.

However there WILL BE, ARE millions of THOSE who HAVE increased their combativeness, contentiousness, argumentativeness etc. AS A FUNCTION of violent gaming and violent movie watching. Denying that is not being very aware, imho.

.

need to do some other things. Hope to be back on this evening.
edit on 26/1/2013 by BO XIAN because: addition & tag fix



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 07:16 PM
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You haven't been able to cite evidence where there actually were study's done on the brain while a person is either committing or experiencing real life violence.

All you have been able to do is basically agree with me that parts of the brain that probably/are excited during real life violent encounters are also excited to a tinsy fraction by individuals witnessing mock violence or engaging in mock violence.

That and going on and on about how a fraction of the population has a certain disorder, a fraction of those with the disorder are effected by it strongly enough for it to cause them to have a lower threshold for stimuli. A small fraction of that group are biased to be more susceptible to violence, of that even smaller fraction of the fraction of the people diagnosed with this disorder are possibly able to just completely snap when they get stimulated enough, and that violent video games where you mock violent actions will basically make that fraction of a group even more vulnerable to acting out violently since the games are agitating their amygdala too much.. After all their neurological tracks are already greased in every way for violence. You make it seem like every body diagnosed with the condition are all a part of that tiny sub group. they are not. The threat you are discussing is like a call to arms to ban video games because in a small subset of the population there are people who get epileptic seizures. And then you go on to basically claim that the video games are all part of some conspiracy by TPTB to condition not just this tiny biased sub group of the population but the entire world population and through the most mild method of the process there is. And that somehow by everybody entrained to be psychotic killers by said brainwashing and conditioning games the secret people in charge are going to use this all to their advantage.

The conditioning from the video games is not like steroids or intense heavy weight lifting exercises for the nerve bundles associated with some degrees of violent thought patterns or what have you. It's probably more akin to wearing wrist weights while you are jogging. Not going to cause that much growth stimulation of those muscles no matter how many reps you do. It's just not enough to send any one over the edge. And you know that you admit to it in your posts. You keep saying it's just a factor. I agree with you it's just a factor and a very tiny one and no where near enough to complete the picture and finish the recipe needed to commit violence. To change my analogy up a bit since you didn't seem to get it. It's more like saying that you are going to make pancakes because you have some of the ingredients but you don't know really what all the ingredients are cause you've never made pancakes before and don't have the recipe, but hot damn you sure do have a whole lot of flour. SO therefor you will be making a lot of pancakes right?

I am saying that those stimulations are only but a small part of a whole spectrum of brain activity and stimulation that manifests in a real life violent encounter. Scientists cant prove and don't know what else is going on adding to the recipe that equals uncontrolled or psychotic outbursts of violence. since they have not actually studied directly but only in supposition what is happening in a violent individuals brain when they are actually in the process of committing violence. We really don't know what causes psychotic behavior if we did there be a whole lot more cured psychotics out there. Sure conditioning the brain by repeating violent behavior over and over again until its an automatic response to a certain stimuli helps. But there is still a whole lot more going on. But as you've said "it's a complex issue and that you know violent video games are just a factor among others." I say you are grossly over estimating the quantitative value violent games factor in to the equation of psychotic violence. You wording and dialog implies you are basically assuming that video games are the greatest factor in the equation but you know thats not true. And worse the rant is really over something that could only possibly apply to a very small subset of the population.

As for the conditioning of nerve bundles making it easier for someone to get agitated. I say it takes more than just the mild conditioning and workout to the "violence" centers of the brain to make some one a hair trigger emotionally. You are looking at the smallest factor in the equation and assuming it has more overall value than it does.

So I'm done. but in parting i will say that in real life conditioning ones self to violence is not done via video games because the process and experience are so extremely different. for you to think they are even similar because some parts of the brain are stimulated in both cases (by major differences of stimulation btw, don't pretend that hormone and stimulation levels are even close) is naive.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 07:20 PM
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Also citing the militaries use of video games for training. Its not done to condition the person to be more violent. Its done to train certain tactical principles and strategies.





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