BREAKING: Panetta removes military ban on women in combat, opening thousands of front line positions

So after 12 pages only a handful have brought up some valid points:

Will women be required by law to register in the Selective Service now? My guess, no.

Will women be held to the same standards (physically; I believe all branches except the Marines have different standards for physical fitness (correct me if I am wrong here)? My guess again, no.

Women want to be up there fighting along side their counterparts? Fine by me, but the standards better be across the board else this is a political correctness ploy where there should be none.

Bottom line is there is no effin way a woman can pass a REAL PT test.
Hell, I know damn well they won't be able to pass 11B Infantry School (OSUT)
18-20 mile ruck march after 3 days of no sleep....?
Dream on women.

And that's just Standard Infantry.

Originally posted by resoe26
Bottom line is there is no effin way a woman can pass a REAL PT test.
Hell, I know damn well they won't be able to pass 11B Infantry School (OSUT)
18-20 mile ruck march after 3 days of no sleep....?

Dream on women.

And that's just Standard Infantry.

from the op
online.wsj.com...

The announcement will mark the largest expansion yet of women in combat roles. But defense officials said they don't expect the change to result in women being allowed to serve as infantry troops

Originally posted by resoe26
Bottom line is there is no effin way a woman can pass a REAL PT test.
Hell, I know damn well they won't be able to pass 11B Infantry School (OSUT)
18-20 mile ruck march after 3 days of no sleep....?

Dream on women.

And that's just Standard Infantry.

Dream on some men too; you act as if no man has ever failed. It happens and women can also obtain that type of endurance, just more rare than males. That said, I have met and served with many women that could take on the best of the best in terms of a "PT" test.

As said before, make it equal across the board. You pass, you are in, you fail, well....you can always be a grunt.

Originally posted by goou111

Originally posted by resoe26
Bottom line is there is no effin way a woman can pass a REAL PT test.
Hell, I know damn well they won't be able to pass 11B Infantry School (OSUT)
18-20 mile ruck march after 3 days of no sleep....?

Dream on women.

And that's just Standard Infantry.

from the op
online.wsj.com...

The announcement will mark the largest expansion yet of women in combat roles. But defense officials said they don't expect the change to result in women being allowed to serve as infantry troops

The new policy should allow women to serve alongside infantry troops as battlefield medics, special-operations pilots and in other dangerous roles, officials said. But officials are divided about whether women will ultimately serve as infantry troops or in elite special-operations units. Some military officials, citing the difficulty of completing infantry training courses, believe that most women would be unable to meet the physical requirements.

I don't even think it would be wise to let them serve by spec ops units (Ranger, SF, SEALS).
maybe the medic part... but then again, do you think they can continually drag a 180 lb + male to safety in gunfire without having a breakdown or being unable physically to do so?
---I will tell you though, In Ranger Bat. They teach everyone basic Medic schooling called RFR (Ranger First Response) Which dictates that if you are injured/shot, that it is your duty to fix your own ailments/injuries first while your Ranger buddies eliminate the threat. Then they too can help you.
-----So a medic is never needed in Ranger Bat. because essentially, everyone is a medic.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

Originally posted by resoe26
Bottom line is there is no effin way a woman can pass a REAL PT test.
Hell, I know damn well they won't be able to pass 11B Infantry School (OSUT)
18-20 mile ruck march after 3 days of no sleep....?

Dream on women.

And that's just Standard Infantry.

Dream on some men too; you act as if no man has ever failed. It happens and women can also obtain that type of endurance, just more rare than males. That said, I have met and served with many women that could take on the best of the best in terms of a "PT" test.

As said before, make it equal across the board. You pass, you are in, you fail, well....you can always be a grunt.

That is if they don't Lower the eff out of the standards.
Also I will note that they showed women special attention in Airborne school. All of the women passed even if they refused to jump at the airplane door. (which is suppose to be an automatic fail).

I don't believe with any of me that a woman can pass RIP/RASP (Ranger). I saw many of my battle buddies fail. The tests and mental torture they put you through makes nearly 70% of the class quit after the first week. Don't see any women passing that with physical requirements and mental toughness.

Originally posted by Masterjaden
That's the facts no matter HOW much psychobabble bull# you quote from fairy boy psychiatrists that snort too much coke and wack to pics of their moms and I HAVE a psychology degree from Columbia and still know how much of it is bunk bull#.

With all due respect, if it's an under graduate degree, then you still haven't done any actual worth while research.

I back up things I say with references, logic, and research. If you're not willing to do the same as a fellow researcher, then there is little point in us talking. Yes, I do have a university education. I don't throw it at people to make a point.

Originally posted by Masterjaden
reply to post by Pinke

 

You're living in fantasy land. I wouldn't even know where to begin....

No your average MMA female CANNOT overpower a typical man.

What is with the constant gender competition?

I said:

Originally posted by Pinke
Physically though ... the top woman MMA fighter or tactical response operative will beat down your average man.

Even if I did say what you think I said ... unless you think a typical man is trained, conditioned, and has some level of fighting experience (they don't) then they're going to lose on average.

In fact in army combatives and police training, trained men lose to women. Women have made it to the finals of those tournaments.

You might then say that the men went easy on them, but you also claim men are natural killers only restrained by society? You might also watch some of the videos and say the choke holds could be better, the women aren't as effective ... but it still goes against your idea that untrained men could fight women MMA fighters and come out on top regularly.

Men ARE hard wired to kill. They don't need training. It is ingrained in them.

Explain why mix martial arts fighting has evolved so much in the last five decades ... or explain why large numbers of men in major wars leave loaded unused firearms laying around after retreating. Men don't burst out the womb of their mothers mid fly kick whilst carving a spear and hunting a lion ...

Look I'm all for a reasonable point against this being made, but other than seeing it portrayed that men in the army are all 200lbs of pure manly beast carrying hulking great packs over distances that Greek myths couldn't fathom ... I'm yet to see a completely reasonable argument. The sex issues are the closest to it.

They let men between 5 - 5"5 feet join the army, and I've seen TRG operators who aren't tall or heavy at all. There are women that have past advanced training during experiments. Yes, it's not the norm ... but does the army want the norm, or does it want capable people?

As a woman and the wife of a combat vet.. I feel this is ludicrous. Standards must NOT be lowered for women and it will be a cold day in hell before Id feel anywhere near comfortable having a inferior soldier ( due to lowered standards or due to her simply possessing a vagina and screaming equal rights..and it being the poitically correct thing to do these days) allowed in combat. If you can hold to the exact same standards and qualify at the exact same levels that are in place.. have at it. Ive seen few who can.. and even fewer who are superior to the men they are training with. I feel comfortable saying that it will be the minority and not the majority of enlisted women who can do this.. and the facts prove this. If you want equality, then be equally capable. Be expected to prove your worthiness and capability or GTFO.

A few people on here know me personally, so Im not just talking out of my ass here. Im a badass among women and have proof of my badassness. Im also a woman who is under NO delusion that I am up to par enough to fight front lines among men, in the manner of men, like a man against men. I might be great in a ring, I might be superior to many non trained men ( and I am) , I might even be a superior marksman even among trained men.. but I am not a man. Im also a woman who isnt prone to using her vagina to get special treatment and is old enough to see the BS radical feminism has caused. Im also old enough to see what "equal rights" means to some women. This isnt it, sweetheart. Ive seen these girls pretend they can be firefighters/cops and the standards lowered.At the base Ive seen 5 foot tall girls who my teenaged daughter could take down. Ive seen within my own sport that standards are lowered and "special" rules are made... even for me because I am female... this can NOT be allowed when lives are at stake rather than a trophy, belt or glory. There is a place for women in the military and its NOT only being a nurse. We can be very very good within the mil and an asset.. as many of us have physical and mental capabilities that are useful and superior. Just as all men are not made equally, all women arent either. SImply put : We can not across the board in equality be a man in combat. I have a long long history being within the mil and around female soldiers. No, I do not want you to be responsible in combat for my husband, son, etc by being given special concession to play soldier because you demand to be given equal rights without equal capability. Its by far the minorty that I see that are capable.. even the badasses among women. Its the anomaly and not the norm.

Thats my opinion, dont care if you disagree, dont care if you foe me and follow me from thread to thread whining.. it wont change what I feel on this subject and it wont change the fact that you are not a man.

Gripe later.. IM out for a few hrs.

I agree, that there probably won't be many women choosing to fight on the frontline, but the ones that do should be supported.

For those female combat soldiers, the Afghan mission proved, once and for all, that women can tackle any job as well as their male counterparts.

www.canada.com...

reply to post by Advantage


Finally a women with reasonable thinking. You might get looked down for your opinion tho, because SOME modern women want to be par with men instead of excelling in their own uniqueness. Its like they want what men have and use "equal rights" in getting it

Simply, Women and Men are not equal, they have their own strength and stuff they are good at.

Its was cool when they need the same rights. it was cool when they needed the same opportunity.

Problems start when one tries to BECOME like the other while screaming "Equal rights" like its their birth rights... i swear that word is abused now a days.

More interesting tidbits from the link, BTW the American Government is researching Canadian female military who are on the frontlines.

We put too much emphasis on gender in this silly society — there are some men who would run like hell in combat and there are women who would say, 'Bring it on.'"

and

"Someone once asked me if I could shoot somebody, and my answer was, 'In a split second,'" says Robinson, who lives in Ottawa. "We're not a humanitarian force, we exist to protect Canada."

reply to post by InTheLight


Great quotes. Does it say if Canada uses the same standards to judge competency. You seem to be avoiding that whole issue.

Yes or no, should women have lower standards to qualify for the same job as a man?

Not this woman in Canada was a soldier or my aunt was a mean drunk.

Should the mental and physical standards be the same across the board, or should women and men be judged as equals using different standards?

reply to post by InTheLight


I found mor einformation from the link yyou provided. We discussed PTSD i believe earlier in the post.

"it's stupid to deny them whatever they want to do, if they can pass the standards," she says.

I wonder if its the same standard as men, it does not mention.

With that equality has also come equal exposure to the hazards of war. New studies from the Canadian Forces show that 13 per cent of those posted to Afghanistan report suffering from mental health issues within five years of returning; that number rose to 23.1 per cent for soldiers who experienced high levels of combat, the lion's share showing signs of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

So they rose the PTSD by 10%, from the old 13%.

The military-wide study also found that female soldiers fared a little worse, with 15 per cent being diagnosed with PTSD, depression and substance abuse problems. Also, a recent study by researchers at the University of Manitoba found that women in the Canadian Forces were more likely than their male counterparts to suffer from PTSD and depression.

That puts an end to the men and women have equal mental strength bullsh*t.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


My posts are in context too. The premise given for this change in policy, in the OP is that women pushed for it, feminists want to fight. And I'm saying ,no, and sharing the way a woman's woman feels about it and every single person I know. Its primitive nonsense.

Only the PTB pushed for this, their idea of equality amongst men and women is to lower the standards down to the absolute alien way that some, and only some, men think. I can't believe for one minute that there are not very intelligent men who also feel as most women do about things like this.

Equality has nothing to do with making women into men. Women are hardwired to be communicators, to nurture others, that is why all their brain wiring goes joins up the two hemispheres. Its an abuse of human spirit and trying to break the mold of women to try and make them think like men, be able to separate from another and view another from a separate standpoint as if they are cardboard cutouts and objects.

I've read many psychological articles on studies about the differences between men and women, and our brain structures trying to understand my sons. And men have more of an ability to see fellow human beings as objects rather than empathize with them and actually be the other person. Whereas women tend to be the other person. Its also partly why they put up with abusive relationships for a long time when their friends tell them to leave. Because they empathize with the other, and his childhood, and the pain he's gone through. Its called care taking.

The concept many have is equality means, join the jungle boys. NO women hold their hands for the jungle boys to join the equality and empathy group.

And Im certainly not suggesting you fit into that stereotype jungle boy.

As I said, I feel many men are far more mature than that and more aware of both the male and female energies within them.

This isn't being done to give into feminists. This being done to bend little girls out of shape and tell them they're not equal as women, they're goal is to strive to be warrior men. This is a hellzone technique by the orcs and trolls running the system.

All of my posts have alluded to what women think like, as opposed to warrior stuff. While there may be some male energy type females, this is the opposite of equality. Equality does not mean women need to be men to be equal. Equality means women as women are equal to men as men. So the government is violating equality, trying to say male warrior mode is the way to be equal. FAIL.

reply to post by luciddream


You failed to include the higher PTSD due to stress of rape and disrespect encountered.

reply to post by InTheLight


A man (with society being what it is), I would think the stress men have over being raped would be far higher.

reply to post by 200Plus


They are great quotes, aren't they.

I find the whole standards argument ridiculous because of the physiological differences (mainly muscular), as well women are proving themselves in combat, so there ya go.

reply to post by 200Plus


What percent of military men on the frontlines are raped by their own men?

Originally posted by beezzer
Wasn't there a push for equal rights a while back?

Thought so.

If women don't want to fight, then, um. . . don't join the military.

That isn't quite accurate because you get to pick your field in the military just as with anything else (Unless you score too low on the ASVAB, but we know women won't have that problem).

As with any job though you get to pick what department you wish to work, by applying for that department and if there is an opening and you fitt the requirements you can do it (except MP which is really what I wanted to be when enlisting there used to be a height requirement that you had to meet, I didn't meet it, but I did the other thing I wanted to do, medical technician).