Abraham - true prophet of God or something else??

Originally posted by windword
All the more reason to abandon the Bible as "God's word" and take it for what it is, a book of superstitions and myths to justify bad behavior.

Actually, before the Bible was totally corrupted, first the OT by the black magician Ezra (the NT is a total joke compiled by the Nicean Councils) it was pretty useful as an Astrological Esoteric Treatise in Kabbalah that was used to teach the initiates Gnosis.

This guy explains it pretty well....

This thread is an interesting thread... Ive always wondered why so many people are wrapped around the bible... believing in it, teaching to others the importance's of the words of the bible... True there is some great history and some great poems of praise... but some of this stuff and teachings around important biblical figures will just about make anyone ponder them for a minute... or just plain go insane...
At a very early age i started reading the bible on my own... Sure my parents had taken me to Sunday school and church, but at night before bed i would read the bible on my own... i would start from genesis and go all the way thru Revelations.. with more confusion than ever... Does this book teach us how to live? how to be a good person? Perhaps.. But the trials and testimony of individuals in here sounds like the work of none other than... Satan himself..The Great Deceiver of all mankind... Look all over the world today... the problems.. the sufferings.. the killings.. the wars... all over religion... My ultimate take on this now as i am 36 is that the bible is mostly the work of Satan... I believe God is pureness, Love, compassion... Not a demanding or a jealous God.. The world has it all wrong....

reply to post by windword


Thanks for your reply, and good to know that you freely admitted now that you are not an atheist, and believed in a divine being higher than yourself.

Regardless if you have issues or not with 'my' God, in truth, it is only the same God you and I had been acknowledging, worshipping and following. If not, either you or me would be sitting in prison right now, for if the teachings are wrong, we would have been astry or even dead by now.

I believed that I can understand your condemnation of organized religion.

When as a teenager, I sought for fellowship and attended church. But at an young age, I began questioning the often asking of tithes, which is not the central tenet of the religion. My suspicisions was realized when the pastor and head was hauled up by the courts for corruption cases.

I can understand the church needs money, for without funds, it would not be able to pay for rents, adminstration and reaching out projects. But as the investigations were transparent, It made me realized how much of the wealth had been hoarded up, and administrators' salary exceedingly well, and worse, how little had been used for reaching out projects.

This was no isolated incident, but on a larger scale worldwide, that does not only involve christianity, but islam, judaisim, buddhism, hinduism and every mainstream religion as well. And then you have cases of religious leaders siding with the national powers for personal wealth, power, pretige and gain, neglecting the very holy books or mis-interpretating them to justify their actions, that propelled them to become community leaders, which makes a religious faithful sad, to see how low religion had stooped to by some.

But there are others whom held true to what religion was supposed to be - a fellowship for members old and new, to share, discuss and debate over issues, not just religion by societal ones as well, so as to find ways to contribute towards better tried and tested solutions for the community and society to progress and evolve.

The true church, mosque, synagogue, temple, etc are not meant as pulpits of authoritarianism, but a gathering hall for religious faithfuls to congregate and understand the teaching better by sharing and discussing for solutions to meet and overcome the daily problems of living.

In the past, it had to be authoritative, because majority were not educated, but that system had proven how minds could be twisted by a selfish agenda filled few who either wilfully or ignorantly twisted religion for their own gains. But with today's interconnected world and better education, those places of gathering must change and evolve.

There is much to do for the religious leaders of all mainsteam religions now, to win back the faithfuls to form the backbone of their community, first by acknowledging their mistakes, then correcting them and adapt to the changes that progress had brought to society, but not by losing the essence of religion and its tenets itself.

It is only by being honest examples of the religion can we ever hope to save humanity, flawed as we but no mortal is perfect anyway, not by outward hypocritical forms, but from the heart.

It is my hope that you may one day make an attempt at fellowship, to share, to discuss, to debate and find out more about the God thay you profess to have faith in, for He is the same God we all had been honoring and trying to follow his moral and ethical guidelines laid down for centuries. No mortal is a genuis in every subject, and it is only by sharing can we all learn and discern wisely more from each other's help.

So I just found out that the Muslim 'holyday' of Eid al-Adha is a massive holiday to celebrate Abraham trying to murder his son. Really? A massive world wide celebration of a folklore story (that can't be proven to have actually happened) ... a folklore story about a man hearing voices telling him to tie up his child, murder his child, and burn the child's body parts on an altar to God. And that's massively celebrated instead of being looked at critically and with some common sense??

That's really messed up!
Seattle Times - Eid al-Adha

reply to post by FlyersFan



God wanted to see if Abraham could do what He would eventually do, ask His Son to become a sacrifice.

reply to post by Logarock


I don't recall Abraham asking anything...

Perhaps I need to re-read Genesis

Logarock
God wanted to see if Abraham could do what He would eventually do, ask His Son to become a sacrifice.

That's the standard excuse that Christian churches make for Abrahams behavior. (I wonder who invented that ... rather imaginative.) But the bottom line is that to hear voices telling you to kill your kid, and then you attempting to do so, is the mark of a very unstable person.

reply to post by FlyersFan



On the contrary. One must ask how a stable person or why a stable person does something like this.

But as far as standard excuse, its not an excuse but consistent with the entire vain of truth that runs through the word.

What do you think of God asking His son to allow Himself to be killed?

reply to post by Logarock

What do you think of God asking His son to allow Himself to be killed?

Have you ever considered the possibility that he might have volunteered?

reply to post by FlyersFan

As Akragon says, the muslim tradition has it that Ishmael agreed to this. It wasn't some hidden thing by his father.

EDIT: Ohwait, seems I already said the same earlier in this thread.

babloyi
As Akragon says, the muslim tradition has it that Ishmael agreed to this. It wasn't some hidden thing by his father.

Akragon was talking about Jesus .. not Ishmael.

And the bible states that Abraham TIED UP ISHMAEL .. he bound him. If Ishmael was volunteering to be slaughtered by daddy-dearest, then Abraham wouldn't have pounced on him, binding him.

Abraham forced Ishmael ... tied him up ... and all based on hallucinations of 'voices' telling him that God wanted him to murder his kid. That's pretty sick. And three major world religions think this is wonderful ... 1/2 the world population. That's pretty sick as well, not to mention some serious indoctrination. And a major holiday celebrating the attempted murder of a child because 'voices' commanded it??? That's beyond strange ....

Logarock
One must ask how a stable person or why a stable person does something like this.

Yes .. and the answer comes back that the person IS NOT STABLE.

What do you think of God asking His son to allow Himself to be killed?

That's a whole different subject. Jesus, being God incarnate according to scriptures, would have come to Earth with that as His purpose. Now as to why God thought it necessary to come to Earth and die like that ... you'll have to ask HIM.

God isn't Abraham. And Jesus isn't Abrahams child. Christianity tries to explain Abrahams dementia (or whatever) away by saying it 'prefigured' Christs sacrifice ... but that doesn't fly.

reply to post by FlyersFan




I think Schizophrenia would be the more likely answer....

Schizophrenia is a severe, chronic, and generally disabling brain and behavior disorder. It is most accurately described as a psychosis - a type of illness that causes severe mental disturbances that disrupt normal thoughts, speech, and behavior. Schizophrenia is believed to be caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors.

Positive symptoms may include delusions, thought disorders, and hallucinations. People with schizophrenia may hear voices other people don't hear, or believe other people are reading their minds, controlling their thoughts, or plotting to harm them.

bbrfoundation.org...

At the beginning of it all, is a "god" that would demand a father kill his son, or other animal.
A supreme being would not need such things, or trick people into attempted and or murder.
I'm not saying there is not concept of GOD, but this trickster in the bible, koran etc, is not IT

reply to post by Akragon


The fact that 1/2 the worlds populations follow religions that deem this guy (who probably had schizophrenia) to be the father of their religions .... and that 1/7 of the world population (Islam) actually celebrates with a major religious holiday the fact that a schizophrenic was trying to murder his son ... well that doesn't say much for the common sense of humanity, does it?? Toss in the fact that we don't even know if Abraham existed at all .... that's saying a lot about how stupid humans are.

Abraham may have existed in 2000 bc.
The folklore stories weren't written down until 500 bc.
And then Islam added a bunch more fiction in 700 ad.

That's almost 3000 years between when the guy supposedly lived until the stories about him
were completely written down. And these are supposed to be reliable??? Not a freakn' chance.

I don't understand why god needs to test people if she is so all knowing. Wouldn't she already know the answer? And why create humans that she says needs to be circumsised? Why not create them alreaqdy so?
And if it's a matter of hygiene, why not demand everyone has their teeth pulled out at puberty?

reply to post by FlyersFan


Abraham = Human (Any of Us)
Isaac = Ego
Binding of Isaac = Sacrificing Ego

peace.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Actually, the bible states that Abraham tied up Isaac (while muslim tradition states it was Ishmael), so you'll understand that muslims don't usually go by the Bible's version of the events here.

How it generally goes according to muslims, Abraham had his vision, shared it with Ishmael, who volunteered to sacrifice himself.
Interpret from that whatever form of crazy you wish to.

dodol
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Abraham = Human (Any of Us)
Isaac = Ego
Binding of Isaac = Sacrificing Ego

peace.

edit on 20-10-2013 by dodol because: (no reason given)

Jesus = Humanity (us)
Mary = girl child (looked after lambs)
Herod = hero/He-Man (Master of the Universe)

reply to post by taoistguy

Just a minor quibble (because I am feeling silly today), but He-Man wasn't the Master of the Universe. The show used to be called "Masters of the Universe" or "He-Man and the Masters of the Universe". He-Man himself wasn't the Master of the Universe. Just a crazy dude with an unlikely sword .