UK Finally Promised Referendum on EU

reply to post by Flavian


The Last time I looked, it was the people of the UK who voted at the last general election, not the businesses. Off being a citizen based in the UK, off of my personal exposure, I would be very suprised if there are more people in the UK who want to stay in the EU in its current form than leave.

I agree it is blackmail, "vote us in and we will let you vote on the EU"
My heart says "OUT" but hopefully if we do get a vote they will tell us both sides.

reply to post by michael1983l


This should be a cold, calculated decision rather than one based on emotion and feelings about Europe though - don't you agree? And that is my very real fear.

Simply put, in economic terms alone, we are far better off with Europe than without Europe. My personal favourite, as i have said many times on here, would be a rejigged EU, based on Northern Power (Britain, Germany, Scandinavian / Baltic States). Only France if they start pulling their weight.

However, that is pie in the sky thinking. Why would Europe allow itself to be dictated to by Britain? Us leaving Europe hurts Europe a lot. Europe leaving us though hurts us an awful lot more, in terms of economics, defence, etc. It rankles but the world is a changing and we are simply far too small to go it alone.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by michael1983l

 

This should be a cold, calculated decision rather than one based on emotion and feelings about Europe though - don't you agree? And that is my very real fear.

Simply put, in economic terms alone, we are far better off with Europe than without Europe. My personal favourite, as i have said many times on here, would be a rejigged EU, based on Northern Power (Britain, Germany, Scandinavian / Baltic States). Only France if they start pulling their weight.

However, that is pie in the sky thinking. Why would Europe allow itself to be dictated to by Britain? Us leaving Europe hurts Europe a lot. Europe leaving us though hurts us an awful lot more, in terms of economics, defence, etc. It rankles but the world is a changing and we are simply far too small to go it alone.

Not true . Australia and Switzerland and Canada are smaller and they are rich free nations. Don;t believe the brain washers. We have been a free nation for 100o years in our present form and you think that because of the past 15 years we should now give up our country. Wake up !!!

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Talliostro

 

You should be allowed a vote, the whole EU project has been pushed onto the big players in Europe (Germany, France, Italy, UK and Spain) without any one of the National Governments having a mandate to do so. If I recall, all we have ever been asked is if we want to join a common market. Since the conception, the EU has turned into a dictatorship and no I am not being sensationalistic about that comment, by every sense, it is a dictatorship.

I hope Germany gets its referendum too.

This is very true look at how they are handling economies in Europe, as in directly effecting the economy and owning the assets.... in some cases the government. In all reality the EU needs to be redefined, there is an ever more noticable north south split happening in Europe, if this continues I'd expect medditerranean nations to want out or a new deal.

In it's hay day the EU was good for many European countries, it brought public service buildings, investment in infostructure and new jobs etc. Now though it's evolved into a beast of burden for many countries.

I can understand that in the EU it is planning for the long haul, but again in the long haul I can only see this being good for a select few nations with the way this train is going

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Talliostro

 

You should be allowed a vote, the whole EU project has been pushed onto the big players in Europe (Germany, France, Italy, UK and Spain) without any one of the National Governments having a mandate to do so. If I recall, all we have ever been asked is if we want to join a common market. Since the conception, the EU has turned into a dictatorship and no I am not being sensationalistic about that comment, by every sense, it is a dictatorship.

I hope Germany gets its referendum too.

Mind you micheal, would a referendum actually achieve anything anyway?

I seem to remember the Netherlands had one, the people said NO to the EU...so they decided that wasn't the 'correct' answer and continued having a vote until they got the answer they wanted.

Pretty sure it was the NL..

I'm not sure we Brits would put up with that, it's basically fraud.

Originally posted by michael1983l
Today the Prime Minister has finally promised an in/out referendum on the EU.

A vote in 2017? Why not 2013?

Cameron promised a "cast-iron" guarantee of a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty - but abandoned the pledge six months before last year's general election.

Me thinks he will also find a reason to abandon this promise after election. I don't trust him.

Mind you micheal, would a referendum actually achieve anything anyway?

I seem to remember the Netherlands had one, the people said NO to the EU...so they decided that wasn't the 'correct' answer and continued having a vote until they got the answer they wanted.

Pretty sure it was the NL..

I'm not sure we Brits would put up with that, it's basically fraud.

edit on 23-1-2013 by MysterX because: error

They did the same thing in Ireland - they voted 'no' which was the wrong answer so they had another one. They will keep having them until they get a 'yes', which they did the second time in Ireland. Very bent.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Flavian

 

The Last time I looked, it was the people of the UK who voted at the last general election, not the businesses. Off being a citizen based in the UK, off of my personal exposure, I would be very suprised if there are more people in the UK who want to stay in the EU in its current form than leave.

I'd say it's guarenteed there is an overwhelming majority of British people who only want a free trade arrangement with the rest of Europe, the proof of that is 15 years of promises of a referendum that never comes...if public opinion was the other way around, we'd have had our official say on the matter donkey's years ago.

They don't care about our choice, unless it happens to be in line with theirs.

And that's not even a shadow of what democracy is supposed to be is it.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by michael1983l
Today the Prime Minister has finally promised an in/out referendum on the EU.

A vote in 2017? Why not 2013?

I don't trust Cameron any further than I can throw him. He thinks this is a passport to a second term. People are not so stupid.

edit on 23-1-2013 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

According to the government..we can't have a referendum now..because 'the EU is sorting itself out, and we need to wait another half decade, full decade, half century..... to see how that pans out'..yeah, i know.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by michael1983l

 

This should be a cold, calculated decision rather than one based on emotion and feelings about Europe though - don't you agree? And that is my very real fear.

Simply put, in economic terms alone, we are far better off with Europe than without Europe. My personal favourite, as i have said many times on here, would be a rejigged EU, based on Northern Power (Britain, Germany, Scandinavian / Baltic States). Only France if they start pulling their weight.

However, that is pie in the sky thinking. Why would Europe allow itself to be dictated to by Britain? Us leaving Europe hurts Europe a lot. Europe leaving us though hurts us an awful lot more, in terms of economics, defence, etc. It rankles but the world is a changing and we are simply far too small to go it alone.

A bit of economic pain in the short term is a small price to pay for long term control of our soverignty. People in Europe wouldn't just stop buying from us over night if we left the EU anyway, this is just scare mongering from the Pro EUers.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
I agree it is blackmail, "vote us in and we will let you vote on the EU"

My heart says "OUT" but hopefully if we do get a vote they will tell us both sides.

edit on 23-1-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

I'd be very weary of what the protagonists and the antagonist 'tell you about in / out of Europe' mate.

Better to research yourself, than be mired down by what will be without doubt a mega propaganda war.

reply to post by MysterX


In Ireland they voted NO to the lisbon treaty, so the EU made them vote again until they got the answer they wanted.

reply to post by HelenConway


Australia and Canada are huge. They have small populations too, which only helps when the resources are so plentiful. We do not have their advantages. We also do not have a decent manufacturing base - fact.

As for brainwashed, just look at the figures for growth, output, etc. It has nothing to do with being "brain washed" and everything to do with a genuine fear of economic collapse - which is a very credible threat if we try to go it alone.

First thought, he's just trying to win over those he would have lost to UKIP.

Second thought...Apparently and this is from an EU horses mouth (No Tesco pun intended) That come after the next election ALL the members of the EU will have re negotiations of what has worked and what doesn't. (Case in point all the laws we so venemently adhere to that that lots of the EU cast aside already such as smoking bans).

Basically Cameron's been dropped in it the moment this rubbish proposal fell out of his mouth. Sure he promises an in/out vote, but even an out vote won't really end up in us being out. He's just going to re negotiate terms the same as ever bugger else.

The bloody cheek of the git!

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by HelenConway

 

Australia and Canada are huge. They have small populations too, which only helps when the resources are so plentiful. We do not have their advantages. We also do not have a decent manufacturing base - fact.

As for brainwashed, just look at the figures for growth, output, etc. It has nothing to do with being "brain washed" and everything to do with a genuine fear of economic collapse - which is a very credible threat if we try to go it alone.

Would you have been prepared to live under the rule of Hitler, had it have meant a bit of prosperity?

reply to post by michael1983l


Come on Michael, i expect much better from you than that type of response. You are usually very rational.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by MysterX

 

In Ireland they voted NO to the lisbon treaty, so the EU made them vote again until they got the answer they wanted.

That's right, i remember that.

Imagine that in a general election?

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by michael1983l

 

Come on Michael, i expect much better from you than that type of response. You are usually very rational.

It is a perfectly rational response, our soverignty is slowly being eroded away and our national powers passed to Brussels. We do not vote in the president of the EU nor do we vote in the members of the european parliment. So, who knows who is going to be in charge in 5,10 or 15 years. Being bribed/blackmailed into staying in the EU at the expense of your own national soverignty, is not a reason to legitimatley stay in the EU.

When the time comes they'll find some reason to say that a referendum isn't needed. Just like they did over maastricht. Anyone who thinks one of the big parties would risk the people voting to leave is sadly deluded.