UK Finally Promised Referendum on EU

I'd be interested to learn what powers the UK wishes to repatriate back from the EU ... an EU they are part of, to which they've delegated these powers in the first place ... and why the British contributors feel that the EU has failed the UK in those particular policy areas.

Because you can see the concerns. All the EU countries have pooled sovereignty for the common good. Negotiations have been done, agreements made & treaties signed.

Yet now, and at a particularly difficult time for the Eurozone, the British PM is coming along with a whole different set of priorities on he expects complete unanimity amongst other members within 4 years, on which he feels so strongly that he thinks his country should repatriate whole policy areas if he doesn't get that unanimity he demands, else he'll call a referendum to withdraw from the EU altogether. And I assume he thinks he'll get a Yes vote on that (I don't doubt he will either).

I mean, it's not just about trivia like food labeling or car horn standardization, is it ? Because you'd only threaten to withdraw from the EU on some fundamental principle, wouldn't you ?

So what is it ?

And if it's such an important principle now, why wasn't it over the last 40 years ? Why British governments delegate those powers to the EU in the first place ... what's changed now, exactly ?

Just so we can understand the British thinking.

reply to post by michael1983l

I did a quick search through our most popular newspapers and it's really everywhere.
Pro-€Z media try to deem Camerons speech and arguments irrational of course, which only shows they fear the UK's move might set an example.
The readers comments are widely supportive for a referendum in the UK though.

Originally posted by Talliostro
UK got much money from Brussels without paying too much for being in the EU and this "Help" would stop too. And there is no Commonwealth anymore to level this out...

On the contrary my understanding is that we put more in that we get back. The countries that 'make' out of being in the EU are the poorer members.

reply to post by LeBombDiggity


But what you miss is that no Government during the time of the EU has had a mandate to pass our powers over to Brussels. Our people in 1975 were given a referendum on a Common Market, not goverence from Brussels. That makes Brussels partaking in our Policies non binding by law.

As to any particular law we want reversing. Well we would like the ability to extrodite convicted terrorists from our shores without the European Courts blocking it, for one.

reply to post by LeBombDiggity

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
All the EU countries have pooled sovereignty for the common good. Negotiations have been done, agreements made & treaties signed.

I'd like to answer to this from my perspective if I may.
What you call "pooled" was not exactly a democratically legitimized process.
From my point of view and as enshrined in our constitution this alone makes it unconstitutional and thus void.

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
I mean, it's not just about trivia like food labeling or car horn standardization, is it ? Because you'd only threaten to withdraw from the EU on some fundamental principle, wouldn't you ?

So what is it ?

That would be democracy, freedom, self-determination and respective souvereignty for all nations in Europe.
*If that is what they desire.

reply to post by michael1983l


The European Convention on Human Rights established those courts.

The Convention was drafted after WW2 in 1950 by the Council of Europe ... not the EEC, not the EU. The Brits actually led the way in it's creation ... and the Treaty of London sealed the deal. It's there to uphold those rights which the Nazis, the fascists, the communists all wanted to destroy ?

And you think UK should consign all that in the bin ?

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
reply to post by michael1983l

 

The European Convention on Human Rights established those courts.

The Convention was drafted after WW2 in 1950 by the Council of Europe ... not the EEC, not the EU. The Brits actually led the way in it's creation ... and the Treaty of London sealed the deal. It's there to uphold those rights which the Nazis, the fascists, the communists all wanted to destroy ?

And you think UK should consign all that in the bin ?

Yes absolutley as it has deviated so far from the original concept that it is virtually unrecognisable now.

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
I'd be interested to learn what powers the UK wishes to repatriate back from the EU ... an EU they are part of, to which they've delegated these powers in the first place ... and why the British contributors feel that the EU has failed the UK in those particular policy areas.

Because you can see the concerns. All the EU countries have pooled sovereignty for the common good. Negotiations have been done, agreements made & treaties signed.

You've nailed it yourself. Why would anyone like the idea of 'pooling sovereignty'? Physically, mentally, culturally we have always been apart from continental Europe. As for the 'common good' - it's the poorer EU members that largely benefit.
Financially we put more in than we get out.
www.thisismoney.co.uk...
Plus health services in particular are under strain thanks in part to the influx of E European economic migrants.
And did I mention we now have to pay child benefit for the families of migrant workers? Families which are still living in their native country.
www.telegraph.co.uk...
The EU is run by unelected officials, it is a bureaucratic, financial behemoth, it's books have never even been properly audited, it's running costs and waste are legendary.
The EU was originally sold to us as 'The Common Market' but gradually and insidiously it has become a different beast alltogether.

All this talk about repatriation of powers is just political smoke and mirrors. Cameron is trying to keep his Eurosceptics at bay and fight off UKIP. The majority want out - never mind repatriation.
www.acasefortreason.org.uk...

I heard an extremely concerning interview this afternoon on BBC World Service where a US official stated that the US intends to declare a free trade agreement with the EU 'sometime this year'. He added that the US now regards its 'special relationship' as being with Germany and not the UK in regard to the UK voting to leave Europe (not so subtly hinting that we would be out in the cold as far as the US is concerned should we leave Europe).

US-EU Free Trade - Huffington Post

I remember when the Irish were asked to vote on that constitution - when they voted 'no' - not only were they asked to vote again until they gave a 'yes' vote, they were threatened with economic ruin if they did not (this was before the 2008 financial collapse).

I detest what the EU has become and would return to a free trade zone only in the blink of an eye. EFTA seems to suit the likes of Norway and Switzerland just fine.

See this is where I don't understand. UK has a long tradition of parliamentary democracy. The EEC was a contentious issue which crossed party loyalties so in 1975 there was a referendum and the vast majority of Brits who voted chose to join the EU predecessor organisation, the EEC. Sorted.

Since then, every British government has been elected, you guys vote them in, vote them out, vote them back in again. But (even this day) all three parties are pro membership of the EU in varying degrees of enthusiasm. Some Europeans, Delors etc, have moved the integration forwards ... such as with the Single European Act, Maastricht, Schengen etc ... and even Thatcher & Major signed up to some of these things.

And now everything ... everything ... is just to get thrown away, even the very precious things like the European Convention on Human Rights which the British themselves helped create (and some VERY historically important British people contributed to the creation of that document).

I still don't get it. It sounds more like a people's revolution than anything else, but, strangely one which is led by the Prime Minister himself. That's the truly odd thing.

Originally posted by christina-66

I remember when the Irish were asked to vote on that constitution - when they voted 'no' - not only were they asked to vote again until they gave a 'yes' vote, they were threatened with economic ruin if they did not (this was before the 2008 financial collapse).

I detest what the EU has become and would return to a free trade zone only in the blink of an eye. EFTA seems to suit the likes of Norway and Switzerland just fine.

Says it all really. I would go further and say we are dealing with a huge evil here. And yes I really do mean EVIL in the old fashioned biblical sense. It is now becoming apparent that the intention all along was to create a fiscal and political union. In fact I believe European key figures have come out and said as much. They thought the Euro would hasten this. Unfortunately that plan went a bit wrong. But they will turn it round and use the Euro troubles as a reason to bring everything together. I believe we are dealing with an unstoppable force and don't hold out much hope of us not being sucked further in.

reply to post by LeBombDiggity


You clearly do not understand. The UK people that I know believe that we have been duped by the EU and our Government, by slowly eroding our constitutional powers and handing them to Brussels. The UK population has long not been happy with it's participation in this version of the EU but we have never had a mainstream party willintg to represent the people on the issue, which is why it has never been seriously looked at. This isn't a new thing for the British public, just the first time an elected leader has acted upon the peoples will. I suspect that we are being duped again by our government, which is why I will vote UKIP and not the clown Cameron, but it is an issue that needs addressing none the less.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by LeBombDiggity

 

But what you miss is that no Government during the time of the EU has had a mandate to pass our powers over to Brussels. Our people in 1975 were given a referendum on a Common Market, not goverence from Brussels. That makes Brussels partaking in our Policies non binding by law.

As to any particular law we want reversing. Well we would like the ability to extrodite convicted terrorists from our shores without the European Courts blocking it, for one.

A classic example of utter BS from the anti Eu people. I'm sure you are thinking of a one eyed cleric with hook hand on this one. The law in question is actually article 3f of the united nations treaty 45/116. Most of the EU articles match the UN by the way. So being out of the Eu would make no difference. It's just more convenient being in Europe to invoke European law......he would still be here though due to the incompetence of government lawyers!!!!!!!!!!!

So what you are really asking for is a withdrawel of the UK from the United Nations.

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity

I still don't get it. It sounds more like a people's revolution than anything else, but, strangely one which is led by the Prime Minister himself. That's the truly odd thing.

No you don't get it. The PM is pro Europe. This is just political speak because he is fighting for his party's survival. Because he is facing rebellion from his Eurosceptics, because he is fighting off UKIP's growing popularity and he knows that many people will be voting UKIP next time round purely on the EU issue.

And yes we voted pro Europe parties in but only because there was no viable alternative at that time. Plus both LABOUR and CONSERVATIVE lied that they would hold a referendum.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by LeBombDiggity

 

You clearly do not understand. The UK people that I know believe that we have been duped by the EU and our Government, by slowly eroding our constitutional powers and handing them to Brussels. The UK population has long not been happy with it's participation in this version of the EU but we have never had a mainstream party willintg to represent the people on the issue, which is why it has never been seriously looked at. This isn't a new thing for the British public, just the first time an elected leader has acted upon the peoples will. I suspect that we are being duped again by our government, which is why I will vote UKIP and not the clown Cameron, but it is an issue that needs addressing none the less.

Please list the top 5 laws that concern you instead of re-iterating the ultra right wing Daily Mail headlines.

reply to post by Danny85

Labours leading Ed is a weak little man, seems to have no idea what he is doing and just likes to shout.

Miliband Junior, has always reminded me of a snivelling, school prefect for some reason...every time i look at him i see it.

Personal feelings aside, one thing i think we can all agree on, is that Britain needs a strong leader, one that can go toe to toe with world leaders and 'power-players' and not feel, or appear to feel intimidated...Neither of the Miliband brothers fit that description IMO.

Farage on the other hand, has repeatedly demonstrated that he is neither intimidated, nor remotely appears to be - on the contrary, others appear to be intimidated BY him, a huge advantage at the negotiation table.

reply to post by yorkshirelad


I couldn't list you 5 UK based laws, never mind one repatriated to Europe. I am concerned with the effect that being in the EU has on the UK and the power of unelected officials to get involved in UK affairs and block or make new laws. That is down to British people to decide ALONE. I also do not appreciate being told that we must open our borders to 27million Bulgarian people and pay them benefits if they arrive and want to claim. We are struggling enough with our own #e at home to start giving all we have to whoever wants it accross Europe.

The European working time directive is a joke.

The european court of human rights is a joke.

The unelected beurocrates in brussels are a joke.


The whole thing stinks and is a complete dictatorship of which I want no further part as does what appears upto 70% of the British population.

reply to post by LeBombDiggity

I think you'll find that nobody actually asked the important people, us.

That's really the crux of the issue, Referendi have repeatedly been promised, first by one political party then another...and now that particular moldy carrot is being tantalisingly dangled achingly close to our noses once again...if only we can wait until after the next general election, and only then if Conservative win.

It's not a cynical view to expect the carrot to be whipped out of sight and put back into the drawer, ready to be dangled yet again as another election looms large, past experience dictates that by now it's fairly expected to be withdrawn or ignored, as other countries have discovered.

Originally posted by christina-66
I heard an extremely concerning interview this afternoon on BBC World Service where a US official stated that the US intends to declare a free trade agreement with the EU 'sometime this year'. He added that the US now regards its 'special relationship' as being with Germany and not the UK in regard to the UK voting to leave Europe (not so subtly hinting that we would be out in the cold as far as the US is concerned should we leave Europe).

US-EU Free Trade - Huffington Post

I remember when the Irish were asked to vote on that constitution - when they voted 'no' - not only were they asked to vote again until they gave a 'yes' vote, they were threatened with economic ruin if they did not (this was before the 2008 financial collapse).

I detest what the EU has become and would return to a free trade zone only in the blink of an eye. EFTA seems to suit the likes of Norway and Switzerland just fine.

As we aren't leaving NATO it unlikely to have any real impact on UK security.

As Leon Panetta just gave a speech trying to drum up support for NATO getting involved in the Asia Pacific region its unlikely they'll cast aside the UK. Considering we and the French are the only ones who spend enough cash to try and build a useful expeditionary capability.

Anyone with a knowledge of post war power plays finds this plea by the USA for the old european empires to 'come back and play in the east' as a little ironic.

To be honest the only real 'special relationship' the USA has is with the country that gets massive US military freebies (Israel). The UK pays dearly for the same stuff and we're the ones that traipse all over the planet in support using it. Thats not really so special when you stop to think about it.

reply to post by yorkshirelad


I'll give some EU laws that concern me.

1. EU law has taken precedence over domestic legislation since the late 1970's - I'd like to see that overturned.

2. All UK major contracts must be open to bidding for all EU nations and, since the likes of Spain's average salary is 3/4 of the UK's we simply cannot compete. e.g. a new motorway extension was recently completed in Glasgow at a cost of more than £50million/mile. A Spanish workforce undertook its construction. I'd like to see that legislation overturned.

3. EU workers are not required to pay UK tax for the first nine months of being here - that's not a level playing field. I'd like to see that overturned.

4. EU workers can claim child benefit for children still living in their country of origin. I'd like to see that overturned.

5. The wheelie bins (some houses round here have five at their front door). I'd like to see that legislation overturned (and I still want to know who owns the wheelie bin company). We could easily adopt a system like Switzerland where they simply buy a strip of coloured stickers (to denote the contents of the rubbish)at the shops and stick it on their black bags for collection - bin collection sorted and paid for in one fell swoop.....no we can't - not unless the EU says so.