PLA colonel: "American hegemony is not at its dawn [...] It is at its sunset"

"Asked about the People’s Liberation Army fighting capability, Colonel Liu referred to the PLA department that houses China’s strategic missile and nuclear arsenal. He raised a hypothetical scenario that he said would justify a nuclear attack, while clarifying that he was not calling upon China to take such measures."

LINK

Seems the sabre rattling is becoming well audible now. Wonder who'll be the first to let the dogs of war slip...

reply to post by CristobalColonic

It won't be China. to do so would collapse their entire economy which is based on selling the west cheap copies of stolen technology. They have no domestic economy to speak of. Their only hope would be total conquest and resource capture of the western world. What do think the chance is of that happening. They would be turned into the world's largest barbeque. That also includes their false moves on Japan. It's a calculated strategy due to some hidden deficiency they want to divert attention away from. More likely it will be Iran and Israel, or Pakistan and Bangladesh/Kashmir

Not to mention we would "Confiscate" their assets for attacking an ally.Loans are assets too.

The fact that they have a very large army is of no consequence, for whom ever controls the air controls the ground and sea. China could not control the air space if their life depended upon it. Their air force would end up as target practice and done away with in a few days. After that their infantry would just be so much cannon fodder and their navy safely resting with Davy Jones. Their only recourse that would remain would be to launch the ICBM's and thus sealing their fate to oblivion.

No worries, they will get froggy and jump but not with Japan or in the South China Sea, they will do so in the ME via the road they have already built. When they do, it will be the last thing they ever do as a country again.

It's just sabre rattling towards Japan and the local area, however, keep an eye on them moving towards the ME.

reply to post by pstrron


Only problem, is that your expecting the chinese to do whats expected.

what happens when they shoot down a few dozen 'critical' sattelites?
what happens when their EMP's and such they already have in the US are detonated next to power plants, military buildings and such?
what happens when the $$ stop rolling?
what happens when cyber attacks cripple the US?

Beware the chinese, they arent stupid. Remember, the UK and US rolled out long lines of dummy equipment to fool to the Nazi's as to the invasion. Do you really believe China, with all its might, finance and technology is still producing far inferior technologies?.. and leaving them on the runways for every satellite to see?

oooOOOooo...

This is a pretty fresh article.

Maybe soon we WILL see how many in the world will back up the evil doers... and I'm afraid I'm not talking about China here.

People will come in here and talk about air craft carriers... and they will recall those successes in the Pacific decades ago and why air craft carriers are so important, but let us not forget our Southern neighbors who we have made so much trouble for and are probably dying to take a shot at us. They have plenty of places to organize all around the US. What am I saying? They probably have places IN the US to organize. Also do not forget decades of resentment from communist sympathizers from past wars targeting Asia... for obvious reason. Hell, let me correct that again. They probably have places within the Capital to organize from... Maybe that explains the recent thread about Obamas new trespassing bill. Does the man feel unsafe in his own house? The real question probably should be FROM WHOM? Socialists or the Judeo-Masonic entity?

Maybe we will be finding out very soon, but it looks like he wants the entity to protect him, but with the Iron dome and the European missile defense that US tax payers mostly paid for and set up... that entity only wants to protect itself.

Too bad. I thought he was a smart man.

Maybe, like so many of us, he just really sucks at math.

We have been strategizing against the second world long before we named it that... at least a very well documented century... and they have been *pretty* *darn* *patient*

There's no telling what China has up it's sleeve.

I'm pretty darn sure there's a reason they've been stockpiling gold and other metals and have somewhat kept it under wraps. They would never fully flaunt what they have... knowing we'd try to double it.

On a much lighter note, They took an air craft carrier and turned it into a floating amusement park.

Tell me these people do not have a sense of humor.

Do you think they'll pack up those rides and put it into use now that they are making these comments?

If they don't and keep floating that sucker around as these tensions grow... what the HELL do you think that means?

HMMMMMMM.....

Originally posted by bladerunner44It won't be China. to do so would collapse their entire economy which is based on selling the west cheap copies of stolen technology.

I think you might be underestimating what a communist regime will do to maintain power if they truly believe their position has become untenable.

On one hand you speak of the tenuous state of the Chinese economic 'bubble', thereby acknowledging the bent of their politburo to divert the peoples' attention to a more nationalist agenda. Yet, you dismiss the propensity for China to take any real action.

Don't forget how close we came to a nuclear armageddon with the 'Cuban missile crisis'. We also do not have any 'Kennedies' and 'Khrushchev' today, only token black guy Obamas and 'back! in the 80s!' Putins.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


You can ask China the same exact questions, your point is you're trying to make?

While some may doubt China's ability or motive, I don't. Anyone remember 3 days after Sandy Hook, China called for our disarmament? Yeah...

Also, there's this:

China have more women reserves than the population of America.. They have more soldiers than the USA, England and Australia put together.. Thats not counting the reserves either. They do have a Navy, Fighter Jets and many other weapons at their disposal. They are not going to be steam rolled like most would think. Japan would be like eating at a sushi bar to the Chinese.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


The technology that you are referring too and the capability of projection is not something they posses of their own. The tech is not theirs nor is there any infrastructure to support it. What they have is either stolen tech, bought or copied. You can thank Reagen for giving them the space tech after Challenger, Samsung, Intel, Sony and Apple in the electronics to name a few. Then they copy it but never at the same quality level.

China is opportunistic in nature, if they see an opportunity they jump on it. Society wise, they are simply a bicycle society with cars having no concept. There are those in the leadership area that are not of the same cut as the populace. Hu Jintao referred to the people as uneducated and uncivilized and they are doing nothing to alter that.

They are expanding their military and preparing for war but the outcome would still be the same. Go against Japan and the US, hope Aus doesn't join in and pray that Russia doesn't decide to then drive a stake through your heart ending their problem with China. At that point the Bear wins with little effort. The Bear is an opportunist too and has better tech. Both the Bear and Eagle will eat a lizard but the Bear would let the Eagle exhaust itself fighting the lizard first then simply come and steal the meal. In the end China can not win unless the US is out of the picture first.

Originally posted by pstrron
reply to post by Agit8dChop

 

The technology that you are referring too and the capability of projection is not something they posses of their own. The tech is not theirs nor is there any infrastructure to support it. What they have is either stolen tech, bought or copied. You can thank Reagen for giving them the space tech after Challenger, Samsung, Intel, Sony and Apple in the electronics to name a few. Then they copy it but never at the same quality level.

China is opportunistic in nature, if they see an opportunity they jump on it. Society wise, they are simply a bicycle society with cars having no concept. There are those in the leadership area that are not of the same cut as the populace. Hu Jintao referred to the people as uneducated and uncivilized and they are doing nothing to alter that.

They are expanding their military and preparing for war but the outcome would still be the same. Go against Japan and the US, hope Aus doesn't join in and pray that Russia doesn't decide to then drive a stake through your heart ending their problem with China. At that point the Bear wins with little effort. The Bear is an opportunist too and has better tech. Both the Bear and Eagle will eat a lizard but the Bear would let the Eagle exhaust itself fighting the lizard first then simply come and steal the meal. In the end China can not win unless the US is out of the picture first.

Wow... A spy working for US intelligence right here on ATS. (not)

Come on, man.... we all know what posturing is. Chinese military force is pretty large as a FACT, so it can safely be stated. It's easily seen.... but what you are claiming is constrained by all that YOU don't see, because none of us really know what any military truly has as far as technology is concerned. That is why secret military tech is such a hot issue on ATS.

Arguing is fine, but when we can see that all you are really doing is posturing based on what little evidence you can scrounge up on the net... it's very unbecoming no matter who's side you're on.

You're just some guy on a forum... like the rest of us and NONE of us know what the Chinese military has NOR do we even know what our own military has. We speculate because these comments are being made in the media... to let it fall upon the ears of the people. It sounds like a VERY clear and fair warning. Respect that because your own people could benefit from it! Sure, we may like to psyche up the side who we think is most right, but the basis of most of our warnings about a war with China is to PROTECT people.

No matter who has the biggest guns, people WILL DIE if WW3 begins.

Who will start it?... The West, no doubt about it, when they decide to bomb Iran.

You should be NOT wanting that... instead of talking up the instigator... because your own people will be dying in that war. If the west was to concede to this rise in economic power of China and let other countries BE, there would likely be no oncoming world war... or even open talks of it.

To say China is nothing to # around with just might be an effort to save lives ON BOTH SIDES and get these crusading bastards to stand down, because we all know who is starting it.

You're just trying to keep mashing that button about things which NONE of us know about.

Why?... A pissing contest that's why!

To reassure your own boys we cannot lose. How selfish of you!

Nobody wins in war.

Lives WILL be lost in great numbers.

It's NOT A CONTEST, can't you see that??!! This is straight forward war talk in the media and people like you need to QUIT PLAYING IT DOWN with your big gun talk!

It's a WARNING to people like you that you should learn to respect your foe!

You know, the one that the US is turning into it's enemy.

If the US could learn some respect for the humanity in other nations... NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING!

Japan will be thrown under the bus as US realises this is not their fight and also the money factor. A war can kickstart their economy but all their money making factories are in China.


Get rid of you western globalists will be a right way towards restoring your economy.

reply to post by pstrron



I'm with you on this pstrron, the Chinese leadership are just playing games on the world stage because they think they can mix with the big boys with much of the western world relying on the buoyancy of the Chinese economy to stave off economic collapse.

They are all talk and spittle and sure as hell they aren't going to doing anything that might upset the position of power that they hold over their own country.

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
but what you are claiming is constrained by all that YOU don't see, because none of us really know what any military truly has as far as technology is concerned.

We can guesstimate, though:
- F117 scrap from the mid- 90's Bosnian conflict
- stolen Lockheed Martin JSF program data and online symposium minutes estimated at $20 billion / 10 years worth
- snap shots and scrap from the failed self destruction of the Osama stealth chopper
- carte blanche with the Iranian captured high tech drone
- a highly developed and dedicated cyber arm to their military ('The Blue Army')

Then you have the stuff we can confirm:
- incipient stealth fighters
- their first carrier courtesy of the Ruskis, with plenty more planned before 2025
- unmatched manpower
- financial resources
- inculcated nationalism and a genuine historical hate for some of their close neighbours

Then we have unknown variables:
- North Korea bringing up the rear
- the flip-flopping Ruskis, should any conflict's outcome look like being in the East's favour
- nukes

Finally we have the factors working against them:
- a greater populace that's hardly satisfied with the stark disparity in China's recent prosperity
- an economy that some predict treads on thin ice and could easily go full Tiananmen if it goes into decline (*80% of "affluent" Chinese have dual passports, in case the dim sum hits the fan)
- a huge standing army that, without the means to resource it, amounts to little more than a burden
- little-to-no expertise in waging modern war, especially with respect to carrier operations etc
- a world that's very weary of a communist country like China's global ascendency
- neighbours that largely comprise of those who go along to get along with China, to those with nothing but odium for what they view as an exploitative communist state

There are many sides to a bellicose China story. The sides you shouldn't pay too much attention to are the jingoistic yan'kee who thinks clutching a rifle in one hand and a portrait of president Heston in the other means a divine fait accompli that the US could brush an aggressive China aside -or- the Sino fellators who are wowed by fancy military processions and simplistically believe sheer numbers = real military might in the modern world.

A war with the likes of China would not be a good thing, for anyone. What's of real import would who would support a China with designs beyond its own borders- this would go a long way to deciding what outcome we'd have in such a scenario, IMO.

EDIT:
I'd also add that the Chinese have a scant regard for human life. China's most abundant asset being human beings is a veritable axiom over there. As such, waging war and the inherent consequences it entails is probably more palatable for a China than, say, a heavily media- scrutinised and war weary US. To play Longshanks for a second; China have plenty of "Irish" to throw to the blender while the West rather value their stocks in comparison.

Mind you, that's not to say the Chinese are all brain washed lemmings ready to be slaughtered. But there's a definitive distinction with how human life is viewed in a country as egregiously overpopulated as mainland China. Factor in the some 40 million male to female disparity over there courtesy of the infamous 'One Child Policy' (which I was remiss in citing above), and you have a crap load of "bear branch" males ready to march to the death knell of whatever's dulcet propaganda is in fashion at the time.

If anyone caught that video last year of the poor 2-year-old toddler run over multiple times in a Chinese marketplace and then left (read: stepped over, literally!) to die by multiple passers-by (the 19th person to walk past the girl finally picked her up and took her to help... after which she tragically died from multiple organ failure a few days later), then you'll know exactly where I'm coming from with my last two paragraphs.

My real concern is not whether there will be a military conflict with Japan but regarding the shipping lanes in the South China Sea. China has already stated they will board ships bearing undisclosed flags. The flags in question are Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia.

Considering they just got done pressuring the Philippines into giving them two islands and internally claiming the upper part of Luzon to be within their territory and we are not talking fishing either. They are looking to expand and have total control of the shipping lanes. This is why they want Australia to stay out of it but it also effects them.

I do not trust them, they are thieves and will steal a vessel if they think they can get away with it. This puts my vessels at risk and any force that will keep their naval vessels in check is welcomed.

And Leon says we want your women in combat. Interesting HUH?

Originally posted by CristobalColonic

Originally posted by bladerunner44It won't be China. to do so would collapse their entire economy which is based on selling the west cheap copies of stolen technology.

I think you might be underestimating what a communist regime will do to maintain power if they truly believe their position has become untenable.

On one hand you speak of the tenuous state of the Chinese economic 'bubble', thereby acknowledging the bent of their politburo to divert the peoples' attention to a more nationalist agenda. Yet, you dismiss the propensity for China to take any real action.

Don't forget how close we came to a nuclear armageddon with the 'Cuban missile crisis'. We also do not have any 'Kennedies' and 'Khrushchev' today, only token black guy Obamas and 'back! in the 80s!' Putins.

I don't underestimate their propensity to act. But, people fail to put things in persepctive when it comes to china. The US economy is 40 to 50% larger than China's, Conservitivley, some $10 trillion larger. So any sustained conflict would bankrupt them even more quickly than we forced the Soviet block out of business. Remember they have more mouths to feed. As to their military might it's largely illusion. Take a look at their best front line fighters, they are copies on our existing fighters and no where close to our emerging technology. If they have to steal it to compete the are already behind our next gen capabilities. As for imbedded nukes they may have a few and ICBM's - Many think the Israeli Iron Shield is a game changer with regard to missle interception. We have technolgy even more advanced to knock down a significant portion of their warheads before they MIRV. Yes, if they act it will be ugly but they will cease to exist and they're smart enough to know that. Last point, they have signficant domestic unrest that we only occassionally get to witness. What are we not seeing that could destablize them internally? This in fact could be the reason for the Japan diversion?
I agree with you on our complete lack of political leadership but don't count out our military leadership in national crisis.

Woah... Although there were many plans and many projects on the table, there have been many failures and many scrapings and it is doubtful that ANY area of the US would be safe from a Russian Iskander missile.

You need to read this...

The NMD program is limited in scope and designed to counter a relatively small ICBM attack from a less sophisticated adversary. Unlike the earlier Strategic Defense Initiative program, it is not designed to be a robust shield against a large attack from a technically sophisticated adversary.

en.wikipedia.org...

Before the US took care of it's own defense (and I have read articles that they plan to finish a complete NMD system by 2022, which naturally means they've barely even gotten started)... We mostly paid for and set up Europes defense shield, which is still vulnerable to the Iskander.

ALSO... NATO is bragging about the one in Turkey right now in the media.

Oh yeah... They know things are heating up really good. Do the American war pushing politicians give a crap? No. They do not give a DAMN about the US population, not even the ones fighting their battles.

ALSO.... The USSR economy was an economy built on war... it has put a lot of effort into war tech and yeah, Russia has had stuff before we had it... until their spy planes learned about it. China also has their own version of air independent subs that can stay under water for very long periods of time.

I recently watched a program about Soviet tech (that's why their scientists were so important to US intelligence and why the Crowns MI6 was built around spying on the Soviets. It mentioned that part of the reason it collapsed was due to the fact it was built on war and didn't function well after the cold war when everyone thought the world was headed for peace.

I firmly believe there are still many traces of this mindset and pattern especially in light of all the western shenanigans.. and that Russia could easily pick up where it left off and supply a huge army with a lot of tech even IF China didn't have it's own.

And still, you don't know WHAT China has.

US budgets are over inflated and this is what you need to take into consideration. When you own a lot of land and resources, you don't need to fork over a lot of money to buy those resources or pay people to build tech. Do not let a small efficient budget fool you. Some of this crap is simply off the books and many believe that China has been SECRETLY stockpiling metals well beyond the metals it already has in the open market.

The Himalayas are thought to be largely untouched and they are probably the world's largest source of metals, but don't kid yourself... they have ways now (Canada brags about this) of mining methods that do not destroy the terrain. On China's side they are protected by Tibet... Oh wait, That's controlled by CHINA, isn't it?

And what does the Dali Lama say?...middle of the road, middle of the road.... Haven't been talking to China... middle of the road is where it's best to stay.

In other words... Don't ask me, I'm not talking.

Do not forget that the largest portion of the defense budget doesn't go into tech, it goes to the Pentagon... the schemers, PR, propaganda campaigns, mind control and people who simply make too much money coming up with harebrained ideas.

Also...concerning our "OH IT'S HUGE" economy... Foreign holdings are part of that economy.

68 cents per dollar is held by individual investors... and yes this includes foreign investors but that is not necessarily considered foreign holdings... it depends on what type of investment it is.

Of public holdings, 46% is held by foreign governments, but public investments are just a portion of the debt.

There are also private investments so it can make it hard to calculate, but as far as actually looking at KNOWN Chinese holdings of US debt, China is 3rd behind social security and the federal reserve. That's JUST China.

... so don't forget that part of that exaggerated economy is large due to substantial foreign investment.

China owns more of the US economy that the American people do in public investments.