Religious Zealotry and its Inherent Hypocrisy Towards Masonry

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posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by FreedomEntered
And yes your rituals aid brainwashing. And no - you are not likely to know what Freemasonary is really about on the upper levels. And yes, ex masons words are valid as to their experience of Freemasonary, this is why they are also my source.


Well, you did post this information. Where did you get the information about the upper levels? I honestly want to know about them. maybe that is where the Lucifer stuff is at. So far, in the 32 degrees I have studied, we pray to God the Father, and in the Scottish Rite we discussed the ineffable name of Jesus Christ. Was Lucifer there and I missed it, or is he one of your sources?




posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 02:04 PM
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The lucifer idea I have is from sources on the internet and that Ive seen on TV from ex-freemasons . Its usually the Christian converts or as the title says " the zealots " who make these claims openly.

I am just saying that I dont doubt that, that could be the case.

You know in every organization its always the top who knows more then the bottom rungs, about whats to come, what has accured, and so forth. Its not unique to Freemasonary.

So Im merely saying that you dont therefore know for certain if the elite members of Freemasonary have plans, that might involve you, that you are unaware of. Although this is far fetched. I mean Im sure Freemasonary is a craft that stays pretty much the same.



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by FreedomEntered
 


I'll stop harassing you. You seem like a nice enough kid.
I will offer some advice to you. It's best not to explain to the Owner of the company how his business works, he already knows.



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by FreedomEntered
The lucifer idea I have is from sources on the internet and that Ive seen on TV from ex-freemasons . Its usually the Christian converts or as the title says " the zealots " who make these claims openly.

I am just saying that I dont doubt that, that could be the case.

You know in every organization its always the top who knows more then the bottom rungs, about whats to come, what has accured, and so forth. Its not unique to Freemasonary.

So Im merely saying that you dont therefore know for certain if the elite members of Freemasonary have plans, that might involve you, that you are unaware of. Although this is far fetched. I mean Im sure Freemasonary is a craft that stays pretty much the same.


Do any of these "ex-freemasons" ever give any identifying information, like gee I dunno, names or lodge numbers, and their true degrees? Or do you just believe everybody who claims to be a Mason?



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 02:25 PM
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I didnt explain anything. I was replying to the title of the thread. I explained ,yes I feel Christians or other religious Zealots are at times hypocrites. However, they have a right to their own opinion, regarding Freemasonary. Im glad you know how Freemasonary is since you are a mason. Good for you.

Yes. www.youtube.com... Here is a video of an Ex freemason why should they speak out about an entire lodge. That was THEIR experience of the lodge, a specific experience of that individual. They dont have a right to talk out about an entire people, unless their was a serious abuse of them happening within freemasonary or in the lodge. I am not saying Freemasons arent upstanding. I think the ex masons are protecting their former friends , knowing that its not fair to out them.
edit on 23-1-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)
edit on 23-1-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by OnTheLevel213
 


You call pity arrogance?
Well anyway, I'm sure I didn't mentioned the word pity, which can be construed as looking down on someone or can be construed as genuine hope and/or sorrow for someone. I meant the latter and I feel the latter about all of us actually, even myself and I hope someone cares enough about me to feel that kind of pity and rather than me calling them arrogant I at least give them the chance to prove their sincere and genuine before I slam the door in their face.

In the case of this particular topic the OP did ask questions, which can only be answered in the first person and not on the behalf of anyone else. I answered, I provided my reasons and if you think I'm arrogant, then there isn't much I can do or say more to you.



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 02:27 PM
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A Good Sign That Freemason Is Demonic And/Or Lucifarian Is When You See The Necessity To Divide The Houses/Lodges According To Race.... That Is Where The Dark Crafts Come In. There Is A Need To Out Do Eachother Before The Armies Rise And Bring Chaos And Void Filled With Destruction... AKA WAR!

Thus Tricks And Spells... But To The Lodges That Knowledge Is Sacred And Secretive. Race Wars Are Very Real.

So... Instead Of Hating Be Coopperative.
The secrecy is designed to keep civilians safe and to hide from the traitors of the race.
But togetherness is comfy...
edit on 23-1-2013 by Pinocchio because: Pinocchio Is Not The Ark Of The Covenant! HMPH!



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 02:41 PM
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But ethnic groups band togeather. Are you saying that certain lodges deliberately will not allow people of different ethnicities to join them ?



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by HoneyBe
reply to post by OnTheLevel213
 


You call pity arrogance?


When it's premised on the idea that someone's too gullible or desperate to see what you see, I can't think of a more fitting word.


Well anyway, I'm sure I didn't mentioned the word pity, which can be construed as looking down on someone or can be construed as genuine hope and/or sorrow for someone.


"Looking down on someone" is exactly what you were doing.


I hope someone cares enough about me to feel that kind of pity and rather than me calling them arrogant I at least give them the chance to prove their sincere and genuine before I slam the door in their face.


I don't doubt for a second that you're sincere. If anything, that makes it worse.


In the case of this particular topic the OP did ask questions, which can only be answered in the first person and not on the behalf of anyone else. I answered, I provided my reasons and if you think I'm arrogant, then there isn't much I can do or say more to you.


Well, you could try to defend your assertion. In what way does Freemasonry teach something (or in your words, "everything") that contradicts the religious beliefs of its members? What aspects are "brainwashing"?



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by FreedomEntered
But ethnic groups band togeather. Are you saying that certain lodges deliberately will not allow people of different ethnicities to join them ?


It happens to be real... despite togetherness.



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by FreedomEntered
Here is a video of an Ex freemason


No, he's a guy who claims to be a Freemason. He doesn't include any information for verification of that.



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by FreedomEntered
 

Secrecy is not dodgy or wrong. Why so many think 'secrecy' is taboo and sinister is beyond me since everyone enjoys secrecy or rather privacy. Also, to speak in absolutes is foolish.


If you feel youre part of a sane group, then invite cameras in.

We have, but our meetings are private and we do not nor should we concede our rights to placate your paranoia and unfounded fear.


But you wouldnt because you know that what you get up to the general public would find peculiar or at the least rather disturbing.

There's nothing disturbing, but then again, we do not need to justify our existence.


The film about Jack the ripper, a suspected Mason showed very clearly the dangers of any secret society.

A theory is not fact nor should it be used to condemn privately meeting men. We have our rights as do yours, and yours end where ours begin. Secret societies like secrecy is not inherently or naturally bad; it's the actions of the group that define whether it is good or bad.


I dont think a Mason has to declare that they are one.

As free men we should not be forced. Many who I work with in the military and at school know I'm a Mason and I wear a ring and my truck has decals, but if any of my bosses were to come to me and say that I must register myself as a Freemason I'd refuse, I'd take my ring off, and remove decals from my truck because I have my rights and I will stand by them. I know, I know, I'm one of those damned libertarians who prizes individual liberty.


We the general public do not know your aims.

Nor do you have the right to know.


Whats your opinion of this video? To the freemasons.

I'm not spending an hour and a half. If it was some History Channel production I'm sure it comes close then, as usual, takes a Left at Way Off Base St. and goes over the cliff.

reply to post by HoneyBe
 

There is no brainwashing, that is a misconception of the teachings of Freemasonry.

Nor can Freemasonry be a religion as it does not meet the basic requirements to be a religion.

We are the not the deceived.

If the world followed the teachings and practices of Freemasonry I doubt we'd go to war as often and I doubt we'd be in the cesspool culture we have today.

reply to post by FreedomEntered
 

You call us brainwashed, but will believe some video on YouTube...hmmmm...

Edith Star Miller was an ignorant fascist who supported the likes of Hitler and the Nazis. Her book revealed nothing factual and far too many are ignorant on the subject of Lucifer. Her and Stevens, along with others such as Knight as Carr, fabricated so much and has been debunked, but the ignorant, the fanatical, and tyrannical refuse to see the facts. They'd rather hang on to lies since they support their fascist agenda against the Masons.

Leo Taxil's lies live on even though he admitted to falsifying it all. He was a horrible liar and immoral man. Of course there is no proof to say that Gould said such a thing since Stevens just made it up. To believe anything Miller or Taxil ever said is to be completely duped.

He played the Catholic Church like a fiddle, like a puppet, and they still use his lies as "evidence" against us. It's sad. If this video is your evidence of our "Luciferian doctrine" then you've shot yourself in the foot as the video shows the lies of Miller and Taxil.

reply to post by FreedomEntered
 

Ugh...oh look another misguided soul talking about something they have no real knowledge of. Please tell me what constitutes a "high level" and "low level"? Please tell me how this humble "low level" can climb the ladder to be considered by you a "high level"?


I love the arrogance and audacity of anti-Masons who think they can define the hierarchy of a organization they don't belong to.

Freemasonry isn't about money.

Nowhere in Freemasonry do we brainwash nor do we say such things. Individual thought is encouraged.


Cults influence members by means of a coordinated program of psychological and social influence techniques.

Where does this occur? What Lodge officer does this? What techniques are used?



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by FreedomEntered
 

What you're saying and what is reality, are two different things.


No ,my resources come from Ex-Freemasons. I can source them if you like.

Most anti-Masons say they have Masonic sources, but they always come short...please. Plus, this is what I'd call hearsay and I doubt you can confirm your "ex-Freemason" credentials.

reply to post by FreedomEntered
 

Most ex-Mason rs who do denounce Freemasonry are usually religious fanatics and also never amounted to anything. They usually joined for the wrong reason

reply to post by FreedomEntered
 

Your 2nd hand information does not stand up to muster with my real life experience.

A cult can describe any group of people. Don't be so simplistic.

What level were these ex-Masons? What are their credentials? How do you know that they know more than any of us? You don't know where we sit within the Fraternity.

What makes them more credible than us? Just because they tell you what you want to hear doesn't make it true. That just makes you gullible.

I guess with you ignorance is bliss. You seem okay with limited knowledge and making decisions from these limitations (seems kind of reckless).

And no one is forcing you to do anything.

reply to post by FreedomEntered
 

Freemasonry teaches many important lessons, but as the old adage goes "we can lead the horse to water, but we can't make them drink."


Ive not met one Freemason I admire or who has outwardly improved.

Who cares? You're one person. You're perception is not indicative of any reality in regards to Freemasonry.


Not going to claim to know what goes on in the lodges in great detail however.

Good because you'd just embarrass yourself.


Really when your in brainwash mode, you dont know who the heck you are worshipping.

I'm fully aware of whom I worship and no man can tell me different. I know what is in my heart, you don't.

reply to post by FreedomEntered
 

The internet? lol Oh, you're serious! BWAHAHAHAHAHA
Yes, everything on TV and the internet is true
Silly rabbit.

Most ex-Masons who have converted to religious fundamentalism didn't amount to very much in the Fraternity. This can be seen in their own confessions.

reply to post by HoneyBe
 

Your patronization is what we think is arrogant. Your spiritual superiority complex is what we think is arrogant.



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 03:40 PM
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You cannot tell people not to speculate when you keep things secret. Just as the bilderberg keep their secret meetings away from prying eyes, and kick up speculation . So to do freemasons with their secret rituals.

If someone is a Freemason or has been, thats credentials enough to me.

And the footage Ive seen thus far of one of the earlier rituals taken by joining Masons is really quite intimidating, goodness knows what goes on behind closed doors with other rituals.
edit on 23-1-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by FreedomEntered
 


You call that proof? I stopped when that lying broad said that student's in her high school were levitating objects and people....That guy is by no means a Freemason, if you care to prove it, find his lodge number for me...



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by MamaJ
If anyone is sincere with knowing what exactly the Freemasonry is all about they will also do their due diligence as I did.

...

We live in an age filled with information at our finger tips...


However they do not and instead vomit the same erroneous nonsense that they semi-digested on some religious-nutter's website. It makes it even more inexcuseable as the facts are so easy to come by in this day and age.



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by FreedomEntered
The film about Jack the ripper, a suspected Mason showed very clearly the dangers of any secret society.


So we should be taking fictitious cinematic endeavors as evidence?


I dont know if Jay-z is a freemason or not.


Then why say he is?


Would he say?


Why not? There is nothing about keeping your membership secret and there are huge lists of notable or famous Masons.



edit on 23-1-2013 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer and is zealous about drinking tea



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 03:53 PM
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About this Ex Freemasons background :

Mark Cleminson’s grandfather was Bertram Charles Cleminson, son of Charles Wright Cleminson (great grandfather) who married Stella Kathleen Costello on Nov. 15, 1900. Mark’s grandfather was not adopted by the Booths. Bertram was the second son and second child of Charles and Stella. Stella died when Mark’s grandfather was a young child. Bertram was born in 1903 and died in 1963. Mark's father and uncle went to a "Catholic" boarding school paid for by the Freemasons--odd since the outward Catholic Church condemn Masonry. The boarding school still exists on the border of Tibet in the Himalayan Mountains. Mark's father indicated that, "Irish Christian Brothers maintained the school," and that "Franciscan Friars gave mass."

Mark’s grandfather was a Freemason in an aristocratic white lodge in Calcutta where many other VIPs were members. Mark’s father's mother had an uncle called Bob Booth, so from this marriage to Bertram the relationship to the Booth family is actual bloodline. Mark’s father had a number of Booths in boarding school
that were cousins. Mark’s father also indicated that his maternal grandmother was rumored to have ties into the Salvation Army.



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by OnTheLevel213
 


Wow! Well all I can say is I tried, you read what you wanted from what I wrote and chose to focus in on one thing (which was not there) and use it as your argument for...."I'm not even sure what exactly" So it won't matter what I say more to you, being you are fully convinced I'm arrogant and have no regard for anything more I write (including this) But for the record, for other readers anyway, I actually do care and am not as close minded as you might think in fact I'm very open to discussions from those who defend Freemasonry and those who oppose it and both sides. It's not a complicated matter, you present your side and view, I present mine and we learn from each other and at least respect with differ.

If you're a Freemason. You are just terrible at presenting it in a "good" "brotherly" "trying to better the world" manner, you might do well to work on those attributes before opting to make Freemasonry look worse, as you have today. Just sayin...
edit on 23-1-2013 by HoneyBe because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2013 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by HoneyBe
Speaking on behalf of myself here, I think God has encouraged strongly for those that DO follow Him to assist others who have strayed away from Him and truth.


Not that I need anyone to assist me in finding the so called truth of your religion but the question in the Original Post is why do they feel the need to be dishonest when doing so?


The one thing I do know for sure about Freemasonry is that it is a "house" which allows pretty well any male (sometimes females in other sects) but speaking specifically of Freemasonry, you can be of any belief provided you "voice" the belief in a "Higher power".


This is patently false. The belief requirements are in a Supreme Being, not a higher power. There is a huge difference.


I mourn & pray for people who are so severely deceived with their longing to join anything to feel they are part of something or are "working together to make the world a better place"...


I mourn and pray for people so cynical and jaded that they need to mourn and pray for people who are 'working together to make the world a better place'.





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