The effects of masonic ritual on mind, body and spirit

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


didn't mean to offend. just relating a story from my personal experience. but be honest for a second, are you imply that all "fraternity" are run the same way. logic would tell me it would be more localized and based on the leadership of that particular "fraternity". as someone pointed out earlier, maybe i wasn't even talking to "real" masons. based on the response in this thread it seems likely i was mislead, that much i will admit.

also tried to edit my OP with no success. i'll ask a moderator to delete my post. sorry again, misleading anyone wasn't my intent. masons on ATS seem like some friendly chaps.

When considering that masons "Take Good And Make Them Better"...
Is There Ever A Time For Each Mason To Realize And/Or Recognize Their Imperfection To Find That They May Have At One Time Or Another Been Similar And/Or Exactly Like The Mythical Lucifer...???
Morals Are Great And Dawn Is Too... Does That Comport...???

Originally posted by JoshNorton

I've spent time in judeo-christian churches, and I've spent time dancing naked around a fire practicing magick, and I've spent time in lodge. In my personal opinion, I didn't get the same, for lack of a better word, charge from my initiation, etc. that I have from practicing magick. Part of it may be to do with what energy the rest of the participants in the Masonic ritual put into their work... some of them (maybe even many of them) know and recite the words without pouring much of themselves into it. It's a rote performance rather than something heartfelt.

I think the esotericism is stil in Masonry, but you really have to go looking for it, because a few generations of men have gone by who weren't scholars of those topics, and didn't join for that enlightenment.

Do you think that magick is really missing from the craft? It is not perhaps just different from the 'traditional' magick we know? I think the fact that we are even initiated speaks volumes about the true nature of the craft.

I will make a bold statement here, and I will probably meet with a lot of resistance from some Masons by saying this, but I think the physical and spiritual changes that occur, even at one's initiation, are far more pronounced and certainly more immediate than the time-frames involved in traditional magick:

From the moment a Mason is restored to the light, he is forever separated from his past, and even from his best friends, if they are not Masons. After initiation, even the relationship with a best friend will never be the same if that person is not a Mason.

True or False?

Relationships with friends (even best friends who are not Masons) are different after initiation, and that change is caused simply by the act of a single ritual which is unrelated to the friendships in any way. That must fall under the definition of magick, no?

I would go so far as to say that a Mason who has been initiated will never be the same - even if he never attends another meeting.

Now if that's not powerful magick, I don't know what is.

reply to post by Pinocchio


I don't know, what was Lucifer like? I thought it was a mistranslated Babylonian King.

But in answer to your question, Yes. One of the first things I think about is my errors and how to avoid them in the future. If you cannot learn from them, they were wasted effort. And judging by the number of errors I have made, I should be a friggin genius by now, but it apparently doesn't work like that.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Pinocchio

 

I don't know, what was Lucifer like? I thought it was a mistranslated Babylonian King.

But in answer to your question, Yes. One of the first things I think about is my errors and how to avoid them in the future. If you cannot learn from them, they were wasted effort. And judging by the number of errors I have made, I should be a friggin genius by now, but it apparently doesn't work like that.

edit on 1-2-2013 by network dude because: Augustusmasonicus is so low, he cannot reach his beer. Sucks to be him. Bwahahahahah!

Fret Not Ol'Pal...
The Mythical Lucifer, As I Know It, Is A Poor Idiot Who Not The Greatness Of God. Thus He Catered To His Own Whims Until It "DAWNED ON HIM" What A Grand Ol' Tragdey.

If We Make Errs... There is the knwoledge factor. But In Agreeing that we are not god... we defy the lucifer conspiracy and better ourselves. Its nice to err once in awhile.

There are those for whom the craft's knowledge is for. They take without question and one by one fall into the death and misery of their unfortunate misfortune. That is not us.

My grandmother made the best dressing I have ever had. Now I more or less know how she made it, and I follow more or less the same ingredients and make a decent substitute, and many who have tried it say it's the best dressing they have ever had.....but I know it's not hers. She left no recipe, it was a pinch of this and that a handful of something etc....but my hands are not hers. It's different, and what is different or missing I can not say...and wonder if I ever will figure it out. I feel this way also about freemasonry today.

Every degree has been a great experience, I was quite emotional on the inside when I was raised, though I am not so sure how well I hid it. The more I read and studied the ritual work to take part as an officer later the more I noticed little things, the more I read about sometime far off topics especially in biblical study the more parts came to have a deeper meaning...... with all that said. I know that the ritual we do is not the one done centuries ago exactly, and that something is missing. A understanding. We have tried our best to preserve the rituals, but there is also a story in masonry. A memory to discuss real events in a way not obvious. A way to never forget, but to keep it shrouded so that those who would mean it ill would not understand. Sometimes i think I lamost have it, but like those 3d images you have to unfocus for just when I think I understand it fades. The more i read on the history the more versions I hear from masonic experts the more i doubt we will ever fully know the original meaning as to this part of ritual. With that said, I think we have the important part, we are impressed with the moral virtues important for living well, we are impressed with the shortness of time we have to do so, and we are brought into a circle of other good men who are more and more becoming a small select few among a more corrupt and mean world. The rest of the truth will be made clear when we return to our creator.

As to energy....spirituality etc.... I would say by taking up the work laid out before me, I have since found a new more sincere energy as I practice my faith. I mean that literally, not just figuratively for get up and go. It is in my faith I find that energy, and brush with the transcendent more then in any ritual. It is with my God I experience my spirituality. Masonry didn't create that, it just made that path more clear, and something fuzzy in my mind, become more discernable. It made me a better person, and try to live more righteously, and in that it made me a better member in my faith, but my God was with me always, and I was with God always though I did not always see it. Masonry has provided a lense to see things more clearly but it did not create the things to be seen or the mind who sees them. But I really wish I did know the full story in there as well......I have guesses and likelihoods but there seems to be no concensus among masons on that part.

I'm going for my initiation on Saturday, so hopefully i'll be able to speak a little about the short term effects after the event.

So far the build up has been an amazing experience. For one, I've never met such nice, welcoming people before.

I will divulge one secret that I am already privy to: I have to give a speech afterwards, and i'm nervous as hell.

I'v been considering the masons for a while, but have already sought change within myself through transmutation by fire and other methods.

I have read more than I would like to admit of masonic literature and ritual, and have recently come to the conclusion that any efforts in masonry would be wasted as I have already, forgive the pinching of the term, 'raised' myself. Not through masonic literature, I might add.

So, as far as I can comment on the effects or purpose of masonic ritual: I see them as a way of subtly instilling the 'breath of life' into a person, the 'thirst' for knowledge that can only start from within but that can be alluded to.

I would have much preferred to have been initiated in 'what was 'fore' to kick-start my education, but my path has taken me elsewhere.

As a question to any masons here who would truly say they have found their inner sanctum, what good could the masons work in regards to my person? I feel like the knowledge I have come across is, by defininition, ineffable, so what benefit would my participation in rituals meant to lead to this place have for me?

(I apologise to any brothers who would deem me to be being a bit full of myself in saying I have found gnosis, but I am sure they will be able to forgive me.)

Regards,
Lapis Occultum Veritas Et,
'Frater' Ra.

reply to post by ohsouthlondon


don't worry a bit about your speech. Just speak from the heart.
Some of the best one's I have heard are when the initiate thanks all the members who took their time to spend helping him and hoping to help others in the same way. Listen well.

reply to post by IncrementEthicalAnarchy


If you already have it all figured out, then you sure don't need masonry.
It's just a step along a very long path.

reply to post by network dude


Thanks for the reply, although I think I could have framed my original questions better so as to allow you more room for reply.

Without leaving blue lodge (as I think its called) into the other organizations, is there anything else that can be gained by masonry outwith the perspective it fosters?

I did not mean to sound like I had 'figured it all out', merely that I am already engrossed in the study of most things which I imagine would be 'new' to most initiates.

Is it a more systematic way of approaching the mysteries? I.e, is there an inherent value in the method of study or the order in which subjects are studied?

Can masonic fraternizing help someone who has already helped themselves?

Last but not least, are there any subjects or insights which you would say were unique to masonry? I appreciate if you cannot expand on certain things, and I know the answers you give cannot be assumed as universally applicable to all masonry, I am merely thinking aloud.

Regards,
Lapidem Occultum Veritas Et,
'Frater' Ra.

reply to post by IncrementEthicalAnarchy


Freemasonry has many different avenues. It's a fraternal organization. So the friendship and fellowship of other men is a very important part. The structure and government is also very important. It's much more about the experience than it is about the knowledge. I can honestly say there are no great mysteries in blue lodge masonry of today. There is very much about it that has been marginalized and forgotten, but the things you learn are basic in the sense of mystery school teaching.

I am sure you will find much more learned masons than I who might disagree, but each man has his own journey and sees the things he want to see on that journey.

Masonry is much more about others than it is about you. From the sound of your post, that's not what you are looking for.

reply to post by network dude


Again, Im grateful for your answers.

Love, Light and the whole nine yards to you.

Regards,
Lapidem Occultum Veritas Et,
Ra

reply to post by network dude


Great advice. If you don't mind, I think i'll use that. Thank you!

reply to post by PnezakYahakotima
i believe your right some of the rituals they have are pure evil. they steal your mind body and soul. they take it away and store it after they tramatize people on the out side it looks like they are good a do all this stuff. butif a mason comits a crime they sill lie for him.

reply to post by rene1


yes, and we keep these stolen souls in a mayonnaise jar. Some folks think you have to have a high dollar containment system, but that's just in the movies. Once they reach the "upper levels" like the 124th degree, we give them their souls back, but we tag them so we can track them. Like they do with fish.

Originally posted by PnezakYahakotima
A Mason who tried to kill me once told me that "emotion is weakness".

What kind of beings don't have emotions?

Artificial ones...

Perhaps not all masons realize the massive con they are a part of, but for the ones that do... they are perfect emulators, but they cannot feel because they have discovered that they are purely emanations of the Machine.

The traditional "Mason" is a psychopath.

All psychopaths need a power source, and that power source is Us.... those who truly exist.

Dude you need help !

reply to post by rene1

Please enlighten me as to what about our rituals are "pure evil"? I am also really curious as to when one is traumatized.

Actually, the thought that we cover up crimes is simply ignorant and misconstruing what you don't understand.

I'm still waiting rene1.

I have to say, having just been through initiation (Saturday), I haven't seen any 'evil' acts or rituals.

Strange? Yes. Harmful, dangerous, evil? Definitely not. In fact i've never felt so welcome, and definitely never met so many friendly people in the same room.

As for the effects on the mind, body and soul; I would go with a slight sense of belonging and an urge to really consider my actions and how they might be perceived. I'm also slightly more tolerant of my fellow man as well.

network dude - The speech went better than I could have hoped for, and i'm very grateful for the advice.

Being early days, I'm not 100% au fait on what can and can't be repeated so i'll stop there. But to sum: No evil. Lots of Good. Looking forward to my 2nd next month.