China colonel raises nuclear spectre

reply to post by daaskapital


I agree Australia should stay neutral always.

reply to post by Snsoc


Great answer

I heard someone mention the US being a tiger, and I thought of something funny about tigers and this conversation. Using of course a favored metaphorical approach.

If you attempt to hunt a tiger, you well only end up hunted yourself. If you attack a tiger head on, the tiger will know you're coming and attack you first.

So to effectively hunt a tiger, you must make the tiger come to you and trap it.

With all this Chinese war drum beating, and bold statements, the US fleet has moved some of it's forces into the pacific reason. If aggressions escalate and a significant portion of the US fleet moves into range, the Chinese could benefit launching a first strike. I mentioned the DF-21 in my last post, it has significant range, the destructive capability to sink a super carrier in a single hit, it's in the high hypersonic speed delivery range, it's their killing strike really. The Chinese are probably well aware head to head many of it's naval vessels are no match for modern naval forces. The Chinese could very likely live through or even win some naval engagements, but if you draw the enemy vessel into range of the DF-12 a single missile launched from the mainland could decimate an entire vessel as large as a super carrier, and the vessel can do nothing to protect itself besides remain outside of operational range. Which if I'm not mistaken, is all of the waters in the current "threatened zone"





Well look at that. If any of the US fleet goes into the currently disputed waters, around japan, Indonesia, new zealand, they are putting their ships in strike range of the DF-21 ASBM which the us itself has admitted it has no defense against.

See, maybe not the best idea for the US to project it's forces in the area by naval options. Looks like you best make good friends with the Russians, you may need a land route into china.

Originally posted by Hijinx

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by 200Plus

 

I'm not sure China has 100 Billion people, there are only 7 billion on the whole planet

but everything else you say is true aside from Australia needing to sell their raw materials to China. Australia is capable of complete self sustainance.

As of 2011, china's population is 1,344,130,000, one billion, three hundred forty four million, one hundred thirty thousand people. That's pretty much 20% of the worlds population in china alone...
PLA Stats
Active personnel approximately 2,285,000

Available for
military service 385,821,101 males,
363,789,674 females,

Reaching military
age annually 10,406,544 males
9,131,990 females

These are wiki figures, which could be grossly underestimated, or grossly over estimated, we all seem to think we have perfect intelligence on the Chinese, which really urks me. Online, we often run into instances of bold patriots claiming they could squash china like it was no big deal.

Between active military personal, and their currently fit for service individuals they outnumber the ENTIRE US population. Now, I will admit, the technology china has we are aware of is not all something to be worried about, but they do possess enough technology the US government does not make the same absolute certain foolish patriotic statements of a cake walk conflict.

Make no mistake, the US would not want, enjoy, have an easy day in a conflict with China, and for a long time the Chinese shared a similar mindset. I have to say I'm absolutely shocked, that china has made the bold statements it has in the recent months. It makes me begin to question China's capabilities and if they are underestimated by those in the west, or if China knows that the west does not possess all of the capabilities it claims to.

Many of us are well aware, on the cyber warfare/espionage side of things China is ahead of the US by miles. They seem to find out more about the west's technology and secrets then we know about their most basic of services. I'm sure a large part of this is due to the communist silence that china has with in it's own borders. Everything is a secret, no one talks, nothing is left exposed for prying eyes.

I'm not necessarily saying those of us in the west are complete idiots when it comes to our "security," but goofy basement dwelling hackers break into top secret systems and files. Why are we so bold as to think those in the business of spying on us aren't miles ahead of them in their skills. We also live in a modernized electronic world, that was developed and built in china. They produce our software and security systems, and likely know how to get into them typing with their ear lobes.

I don't want anything to do with this conflict, unfortunately if china kicks off with any of the Asian Allies, the US, or Australia could get involved, dragging the rest of the western allies into in. I don't want that, nor do you, nor does anyone and sadly if it does happen it's going to be unlike anything this Earth has seen(that we know about).

China is a modern nation, strong economy(They buy up all the resources we will give them, own all our debts, produce all our goods.) More man power than any other nation. They're in the closest thing to a modern industrial boom than any of us have seen(even though we need it), they stand to turn into the worlds leading nation, and they are borrowing a trick from the old world. War brings a nation together, it puts everyone on common terms, they work together to find new solutions, produce jobs, make enormous amounts of money, and potentially gain land and or resources. China stands to gain the most in this conflict, we all stand to lose.

It's going to be a pretty stressful year if this tension isn't sorted out quickly and diplomatically.

First off the chinese would have a hard time getting onto the US military internet which uses different protocols, diffrent ip addresses, and access software and hardware. I'm not saying they cant get onto the secret internet im just saying it would be very, very hard. The problem we would have is the public internet, electrical grids water treatment plants ect. yes they have a lot of people but imagine trying to feed them all during war especially when American companies get up and leave and other countries follow suit china would implode from within, even if they"chinese" helped the war effort in their country how many jobs would that actually produce? 5 million 10 million ect even at 200 million lol what about the rest of the country? while they may have the numbers that only worked in the 1700's the bigger army won now I would say its the one that could self sustain the best. The problems of running an efficient larger army quadruple

reply to post by digital01anarchy


Yet they have, and continue to steal secrets from the US. I'm not saying it's an easy task, but they do manage.

They are currently the number one security threat in the US. Yes, much of this is in the public sector, but they are of great concern to the US.

Now, if the US pulled out of china, I don't think china would suffer nearly as much as the US. The US owes china an Enormous amount of money, enough that China could decimate the US economy if they called in those debts. The US is currently in a position it relies on the Chinese to produce their goods. Not to many products are made in the good ol' USA these days, and deciding to shut that door starves the American public of said goods. China calls in it's debts the US market crashes, leaving them no money to set up production at home which is pretty much non existent at this point.

China is not as reliant on the US as you think, they have their own resources as well as many trading partners around the world. More goods come out of china going to the US, than the other way around. The whole world buys Chinese merchandise, so it might be a little bit of a blurp for them, but the Chinese would shake it off, and continue steaming on ahead.

China owns the US debt, and really when you think about it, the USA along with it. China has it's fingers and toes in all the pies, and I would be incredibly shocked to see the richest of the USA decide to give two #s if a conflict broke out. They make too much money producing their goods in the USA. Bankrupt themselves and the country pulling out, or continue on business as usual.

We both know the answer their, the rich don't give two #s. If china started to attack US mainland they would likely pull out, but a war in the region I seriously doubt it.

I also figured I'd throw this one in, if china's people are in the living conditions many of us are lead to believe, why the heck wouldn't they sign up? WW2, the soviets were starving, if they signed up for the war they got fed, clothed, paid so their families could eat. I imagine if war broke out we would see much the same in Communist china. You're almost better off in the army there

War mongers alert.

It's still the best place to live.

Iam a Chinese I don't think China would wage war with anybody, China has too many internal problems needs to be solve, people are poor and suffering from the the dictatorship that much much worse than American. In the other hand i have seen Chinese Military power rising significantly these years, some suspects Chinese spies steals from American. Since ATS is a conspiracy forum, my wild guess is American deliberated exporting military technology through various medium to China in order to create a false atmosphere, once China(Chinese government) decide to go to war against Japan or joint western force they would be defeated in no time, and then the TPTB would push the NWO agenda foward. Oh by the way, all internet monitoring system used by the Chinese government are from American companies. In the meantime Both American and Chinese internet community have this kind of US VS CHINA scenario on going, I feel bad for that, people just played by the TPTB all the time. Did you ever heard of a Chinese terrorist threaten to bomb the Time square ? Maybe you will have one in the future as you wished.

Originally posted by ~widowmaker~
reply to post by Iamschist

 

i cant wait to see australia invade china, that would be

E P I C


i dont ever see that happening

E V E R



lol

That would be epic! I don't think my post said anything about that though. I just said imho the Aussies are not ones to be pushed around. They make their own choices. If pushed I have no doubt they would push back though and if that meant invading, then I expect they would.

reply to post by Hijinx


Actually the Sea Viper aboard the type 45 is more than a match for the DF-21D, the problem is the munitions (Aster 30) that compliments it. I believe we are currently working on something better.

EDIT: Here, found this to back me up.....

Absolutely. Like any defensive system you have to think about how things can move forward. A number of countries are developing new systems – the Chinese for example have developed the DF-21D anti-ship ballistic missile, which while not a major threat to the UK per se, the ballistic missile question is one that is sitting on many people’s thought-pads in the MoD because they want to understand what we can do. Now, with a little bit of tweaking the Sea Viper system is more than capable of undertaking such a role. Whether the Aster 30 is the right sort of munition for that role is a different question, but the system has got the capability. It’s got the range and it’s got the ability to adapt very very quickly and very very easily to that role. And while something like the DF-21 represents quite a challenging target, there’s no reason why we couldn’t develop a system to attempt to engage it. That’s certainly in the initial phase, the boost-phase, but if we manage to develop the system accurately enough and identify the capability we need we could also potentially look at it in the terminal as well.

World class: The UK's Sea Viper air missile defence system

Originally posted by clapper
Iam a Chinese I don't think China would wage war with anybody, China has too many internal problems needs to be solve, people are poor and suffering from the the dictatorship that much much worse than American. In the other hand i have seen Chinese Military power rising significantly these years, some suspects Chinese spies steals from American. Since ATS is a conspiracy forum, my wild guess is American deliberated exporting military technology through various medium to China in order to create a false atmosphere, once China(Chinese government) decide to go to war against Japan or joint western force they would be defeated in no time, and then the TPTB would push the NWO agenda foward. Oh by the way, all internet monitoring system used by the Chinese government are from American companies. In the meantime Both American and Chinese internet community have this kind of US VS CHINA scenario on going, I feel bad for that, people just played by the TPTB all the time. Did you ever heard of a Chinese terrorist threaten to bomb the Time square ? Maybe you will have one in the future as you wished.

edit on 23-1-2013 by clapper because: (no reason given)

have you ever lived in america and been targeted by the american government or police forces?

it's an honest question and the only point I would try to stem from that is that you'd still wind up dead.

There's a mob everywhere,,, all over the world there is corruption but if you look at the current situation of global wars... Who is the country shamelessly lying through it's teeth and who is trying to hint around with warnings?

In a pinch, a tiny shred of honesty can go a very long way. People who are from there seem to want to go back.

I also ask because people who go there seem to love it.

Hell, maybe it's just people who have lived in america that like China so much. Hmmm....

Regardless of what agenda the Australian Grubment push to our masses and internationally, China has already invaded Aussie the war was lost some time ago. They already own most of the shareholders in Canberra, they have managed this in conjunction with the slippery policies from Canberra, to close most of our factories.

China could invade Aussie rather easily, however there is no need, All they need to do is to stop sending us our food and the other poor quality rubbish that we consume mostly being from China and Aussie will start eating each other, at least the lot in the cities after Woollies and Coles shelves are empty, and we cant eat coal.

reply to post by Hijinx


I like you, you are a realist, and you are not a warmonger

You are not afraid to fight and die and like me, you want to make sure THE WAR IS A JUST ONE

that's the difference between guys like us, and chikenhawks on the web

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Ask those folks in Tibet how Chinese hospitality is working out there.

Why don't you ask how Texas likes the US government hospitality

Originally posted by nottelling
Any credible physical threat to Australia or her territories by China would incur the wrath of our Allies and probably NATO. Of course, if they made landfall they would encounter a technologically superior opponent who has, since the 1950s, prepared for conflict on our own soil against an overwhelmingly numerically superior enemy (China and Indonesia). We'd take an absolute beating and it's hard to say whether we'd be able to repulse a full-on invasion of our resource areas in the north and our industrial centres in the southeast and southwest. We'd make them pay dearly for any gains - of that you can be certain.

edit on 22-1-2013 by nottelling because: Salted the post with spelling and grammatical errors so as not to appear infallible.

Before you jump into war

Maybe you should look into Diaoyu Islands dispute harder

and see which side is the "just" side if any

before you start killing people

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
Wait a second. The US and Japan are the bad guys here? Did the Chinese people forget what kind of government they have?

I got NEWS for you

Chinese Government did not do 9/11, US government did

Chinese government did not kill almost 1 million people directly and indirectly in the last 15 years as part of Imperialism

China has something like 1 single military base outside their border,

USA bases, try 800

China is not in Gulf of Mexico telling you how to live.

United States is in China's gulf so to speak. And learn more about Diaoyu Islands before you get shipped to die in the pacific.

From my perspective you need only one nutjob to start a war, pushing the wrong button in the right circumstance. He can say afterward "Hey, it was for the greater good, we just defended ourselves"

And to fix massive internal problems in a country, a war is a nice thing. The people tend to stick together, blame the foe for everything that happens and listen to everything the politicians say...

So, I think this here must be closely watched, chinese colonels normaley don't speak up this frankly when not backed up by the communist party.

I agree china needs land and by all means australia is best choice as shown in movie .when the war begins.

reply to post by Flavian


Hi Flavian, ATS Readers, Writers,

NOT TRUE... sorry... history lesson time...........

The commies, run by Mao for a long time were ALLIES against the Japanese in China. They fought for/with USA and its allies, AND FOUGHT FOR/.WITH Chang Ki Shek..(forgive spelling very late)..

As the war came to an end, JAPAN surrendered. It surrendered Taiwan which had been occupied by Japan since the late 1800's. Japan occupied Taiwan for ages... So when it surrendered, it surrendered to the ONLY recognized government of China, that was the one run by Chang Ki Shek .

THEN the commies turned on Chang and gang. Chang and gang retreated to Taiwan..and stayed there. Commies conquered mainland China, never conquered Taiwan.. SO.... Chinas "ownership" claim on Taiwan is FLAWED massively.

Yeah it was once part of all China, A China NOT RUN by the commies though. Once China mainland became COMMIE CENTRAL, that did not make Taiwan China part of Commie China.

That is like me conquering your "yard" , lets say half. And there is a lake between the lawn I conquered and the other part of the lawn, NOT CONQUERED BY ME, and legally surrendered to you by JAPAN when they lost the war. SO NOW, because I got half your lawn, THE REST OF THE LAWN, where you live is MINE NOW TOO????

It is a political nightmare, especially with the Asian preoccupation at times with saving face and their special form of rhetoric in diplomatic circles. Like North Korea, and others... it isn't like dealing with most other nations of the earth.

Pravdaseeker

reply to post by pravdaseeker


I realise / know the history. However, for the sake of making my point, i viewed in favour of several thousand years of Chinese control of Taiwan as opposed to post 1800's Japanese rule and the subsequent mess after World War 2. I realise i should have been clear about this though, my bad.

Speaking of which (in an entirely unrelated way!) Yipman 2 is on tv tonight.........

Originally posted by pravdaseeker

Yeah it was once part of all China, A China NOT RUN by the commies though. Once China mainland became COMMIE CENTRAL, that did not make Taiwan China part of Commie China.

NO

YOU ARE WRONG

Taiwan has made a deal with China Mainland, to be province of China, in return China won't touch them

AND EVEN IF YOU WERE RIGHT, that Islands belong to separate Taiwan

Then they belong to Taiwan, not Japan.

Logic there padre, logic got you