Possible rationales for DHS mega purchases of ammunition (esp .40 sw):

I got long winded in this subject a while back. The discussion was a little different than here but never the less, here was my take on a facet of this study:

Originally posted by ABNARTY
While I am not the ‘black helicopter behind every tree’ type, this one makes me curious. I am sure you heard of the DHS buying up lots of ammunition. This coming from a guy for whom ‘too many bullets’ is almost an inconceivable notion. There are those who are assured this means an imminent lock down on our streets is right around the corner.

While I have no insider information to confirm or deny that outcome, I am very curious on the quantities. I reload my own ammunition. If the DHS is buying up every spare bullet on the planet, the prices for reloading components are going to shoot through the roof if you can even get them at all. Ammunition manufactures love when the government purchase their wares. It’s not like when a normal person who can actually operate a calculator purchases something from them. But, on the surface, I do wonder why do they need these amounts? Let’s put it in perspective.

The DoD, in the middle of two wars, purchased around 1.8 billion rounds per year. At least last year. The DoD employs around 3.2 million trigger pullers.

en.wikipedia.org...

That amounts to around 560 bullets per trigger puller per year. That sounds like a lot but when you use it at this rate:

www.youtube.com...

...it is easy to see how the quantities add up.

The DHS is a cabinet department which umbrellas other agencies.

en.wikipedia.org...

They employ around 200,000 people. They have a lot of folks who need to shoot either in practice or in the course of real life. But just how many? This is harder to find. There are those on the Internet who claim 200,000 people will fire up a lot of ammunition. Could be. But does every single one of those 200,000 carry a gun? There are no administrative or logistics folks? No department heads? Every single employee of the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, the Environmental Measurements Laboratory, and the National Domestic Preparedness Office all wake up in the morning, roll out of bed and commence to runnin’ and gunnin’ till the whistle blows and it’s time to go home? I find that hard to believe.

For arguments sake let’s assume a quarter, 25%, of the DHS employees need to shoot. If you think this is too low, you have no idea how many Federal employees it takes to not do a lot. So, 50,000. Got it. They need to practice, need to carry magazines on the job, etc. They will need bullets. Let’s look at how many the DHS has provided them.

Here are some charts to help see it.

www.prepperpodcast.com...

If this is accurate, since 2008, the DHS has ordered in the neighborhood of 1.8 Billion rounds of ammunition. If we take our 25,000 employees and give them an even amount of that 1.8 billion rounds (forget different calibers, different departments, etc. for a second) how many does each get? That’s about 72,000 rounds per employee for the 5 year period. Or 14,400 per employee per year. (I sure hope my public school math isn't showing). Let’s say our 25,000 was off target and go with every single employee toting a shootin’ iron. That’s still 9000 per employee per the 5 year period or 1800 per employee per year.

That’s a lot of shooting. My guess is we are closer to the 14,400 than we are the 1800. I am also guessing there is no way DHS gun carriers are practicing that much. If they are, when are they out on the streets actually doing their duties? We must have a government agency full of crack shots by now. Once they retire from the DHS they can all join the circus as trick shooters.

If I were to be convinced the DHS is planning on locking down the US in some sort of Soviet era, throw back, police state, I will need to see more than ammunition sales receipts. It will take more than a few bullets to make this happen. I'm not saying it could never happen, I just don't see a causality between the lock down and the ammunition sales.

And for those who think I am blind, do the math on the other side of the equation. Who would those DHS agents face? Fellow Americans, which is another story but... How many guns do Americans own? Estimates are around 200,000,000. What were the total commercial ammunition sales last year? Granted a more difficult number to pin down but if each of those 200,000,000 firearms had 25 rounds of ammunition per year, that is 5 BILLION rounds sold per year. Any idea how much the average gun owner has on hand at any at any one time? Not too many are forthcoming with that information. My guess is over 25.

reply to post by Advantage

Like I said...I have heard some people say that they like to practice with the same round as they carry (ie HPs) but that is a waste of money as most would agree (given that you can get similar ballistics at indoor target range distances with FMJ bullets of the same weight for about half the cost). Given that DHS is spending tax payer money I would not be surprised...but add in the 200 M rounds ordered in 2009 that makes 1.8 B rounds and I doubt that they are going to shoot that many rounds in target practice.

reply to post by Maxatoria

Ceteris paribus (all things being equal) it will equalize if they dont attempt to enforce ammo limits (size and caliber) and/or require ammo purchases to be registered in the future.

reply to post by Maxatoria

Ceteris paribus (all things being equal) it will equalize if they dont attempt to enforce ammo limits (size and caliber) and/or require ammo purchases to be registered in the future.

reply to post by butcherguy

Jacketed Hollow Points (JHP) or Full Metal Jacket (FMJ)....over a lead core.

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Jacketed Hollow Points (JHP) or Full Metal Jacket (FMJ)....over a lead core.

yes.
JHP and jacketed soft points have no lead exposed at the base of the bullet. FMJ's have an open base where the lead core is exposed to the hot gases when the bullet travels down the barrel. Some of the exposed lead is vaporized and hangs in the air in indoor shooting ranges. Most indoor shooting ranges have exhaust fans to pull air out of the range and keep airborne lead levels down.
With respect to practice, I like to practice with the exact load that I plan to use for whatever other intention, whether it be hunting or protection. If I shoot cheap ammo, it is purely for enjoyment.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Oh.. there is something to it. When the Department of Homeland security buys 50 times the amount of ammo used in the war in Afghanistan, you would be naive not to give it a second thought.

That "something to it" doesn't have to be completely nefarious, but it's not ordinary. Maybe they are just buying in bulk in a weak economy, but that doesn't make sense when the government is spending more money than ever (not such a bad economy for the money printers).

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Maybe you missed the part about where they secured that amount in the order.

I will break it down for you. DHS did not but that amount of ammo. They have a contract for that amount which means the people they contracted with are obligated to supply them if needed. It locks the price in. They do not have a bunker stockpiling ammo of that amount. The companies they secured contracts with have guaranteed that they can and will supply them with the amount if need be.

It isn’t nefarious it is good business sense.