I think I may have logically theorized there is an afterlife

Originally posted by isyeye
I guess the question to ask is does "the soul" have mass?...and is it a form of "energy"?...otherwise the logic may not hold true.

edit on 21-1-2013 by isyeye because: (no reason given)

There was a scientist back in the day who tried to prove that the soul had mass. He proved it I forget how much it weighed. But he actually measured the weight of it.

I'll try to find the sources.

In 1901, MacDougall weighed six patients while they were in the process of dying from tuberculosis in an old age home. It was relatively easy to determine when death was only a few hours away, and at this point the entire bed was placed on an industrial sized scale which was apparently sensitive to the gram. He took his results (a varying amount of perceived mass loss in most of the six cases) to support his hypothesis that the soul had mass, and when the soul departed the body, so did this mass. The determination of the soul weighing 21 grams was based on the average loss of mass in the six patients within moments after death. Experiments on mice and other animals took place. Most notably the weighing upon death of sheep seemed to create mass for a few minutes which later disappeared. The hypothesis was made that a soul portal formed upon death which then whisked the soul away.

Source

reply to post by Blue Shift


I actually like how you set this up, because to me the snowflake changed form and became one with the water, as the soul becomes one with the entire universe

reply to post by VinceGG


Just like how the mass and energy sucked into a black hole is never destroyed or lost.

Originally posted by VinceGG
reply to post by Blue Shift

 

I actually like how you set this up, because to me the snowflake changed form and became one with the water, as the soul becomes one with the entire universe

Yeah, you're not quite getting the point. Your "soul" is the shape of the snowflake, not the molecules it's made of. So once it melts, the shape is gone, so is your soul. True, matter and energy are conserved, but shapes and structures are not. They come and go all the time.

Another way to look at it is like a spoken word. You say the word "apple." It exists as a shape and sound and it lingers in the air for a while, and then it's gone. Maybe somebody hears it and understands it as "apple," but once it fades out, then it ceases to exist. Not the matter, or energy, but the shape. And a word is nothing without the shape, and arguably also nothing without somebody to hear and understand it.

Your soul or consciousness is the form and shape of matter and energy that allows you to experience reality from your own point of view. Without it, not only you, but the entire universe ceases to exist. When I die, the entire universe and all of reality, including everything that ever was or ever might be, will vanish into nothingness.

reply to post by Blue Shift

When I die, the entire universe and all of reality, including everything that ever was or ever might be, will vanish into nothingness.

And when you are still aware/conscious... will you say... I am nothing?

Originally posted by VinceGG
I'm a longtime lurker of this forum and today as I was talking about religion with one of my friends. I had come up with what seemed like a pretty solid theory. I felt it was important enough to not only search the forums for a similar theory, but to also spend an hour or so on the forums replying to threads I have previously read.

The law of conservation of mass, states that the mass of an isolated system will remain constant over time. Matter in the universe never just disappears completely. Mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space and changed into different types of particles. Basically, it can change states, become another form of matter, or become a form of energy and does not disappear into nothing. I believe that consciousness/soul/spirit follows the same principal after it is released from our bodies.

What are your thoughts?

edit on 21-1-2013 by VinceGG because: Grammar

That's weird...I stated the same to Ryan Buell today on his page. Deja Vu much...or just plagiarize???

It's energy that can not be created nor destroyed...not mass. Get your heirarchy straight.

Originally posted by isyeye
I guess the question to ask is does "the soul" have mass?...and is it a form of "energy"?...otherwise the logic may not hold true.

edit on 21-1-2013 by isyeye because: (no reason given)

Actually...it is theorized that the seat of the soul sits in the pineal gland...which has mass...yet an electrical current really is what tells the pineal gland what to do, what hormones to release into the brain,/body...this could happen with a psychological cue (not just a physiological process). So...both conclusions are correct if we are using the laws of logic and applying them to this particular debate. Does the pineal gland weigh 21 grams?...I don't know, I don't have my anatomy book on me at this precise moment in time (although this is the information age and this info is available to me even as I write this post, alas, I am in a hurry and must reply due to my pineal gland telling me to)...

The electricity in your body has to go somewhere when you die. That is the question to answer. I would like to ask Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson his views on this and get back to you.

Originally posted by VinceGG
I'm a longtime lurker of this forum and today as I was talking religion with one of my friendsa. I had come up with what seemed like a pretty solid theory. With that I felt it was important enough to not only search for a similar theory, but to also spend an hour or so on the forums replying to threads I have previously read.

The law of conservation of mass, states that the mass of an isolated system will remain constant over time. Matter in the universe is never just disappears completely. Mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space and changed into different types of particles. Basically, it can change states, become another form of matter, or become a form of energy and it does not just disappear into nothing. I believe that consciousness/soul/spirit follows the same principal after it is released from our bodies.

What are your thoughts?

Logic is not logic for everyone. My conclusion is way different.

There is a reason why energy cant disappear. Because there is a infinite void that already takes up all space. Energy does not take up all space possible. It just takes up a finite amount of space.

We can not create energy because we don't have access to the infinite void. To be able to form energy without the energy that surrounds us; we would need access to the infinite void.

Energy is not a infinite because it has been created. Energy will not last for ever because it is not infinite.


Within the infinite, "information" like our total history will never disappear. The other thing about our existence is that it is preplanned. What you will do"exactly" to marrow has already been decided. There is no way you can change what is going to happen to marrow, or alter its course in any way "No mater what you do". Because YOU don't know the future, so you cant alter it. You have to fallow the flow / the expansion of time/energy.

Is there a afterlife? There is, but the question is; who's after life is it that your living?

My guess it is that, all our lives are experienced by one and the same awareness, but through different bodies at different locations.

There is only one source that can form the foundation for all life. That foundation is the infinite void. There is no other sources present to form the foundation for life, or the foundation for our existence.

So basically there is only one life in existence "the awareness of the infinite void". And it is each and everyone of us. When we die we become a part of the infinite awareness again. Maybe the awareness brings back some information from a past life, when it is reborn in a new body.

Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Just to play devils advocate for a moment, if consciousness simply dissipates upon death...
Then what is a ghost?

Show me one. Not just some fuzzy video or photo, or garbled EVP, either. Present me with a proven "ghost" and I'll tell you what it is.

Would if I could.
Subjective evidence..pain in the butt really. Once stuff starts moving around in a intelligent manner then one tends to not employ too much doubt that something is going on.

I said devils advocate because a ghost is fairly specific in its nature. I personally believe in "ghosts", but not because it makes sense or anything..only through experience I have yet to find a suitable answer for..
But I don't pretend to know what a "ghost" is...I use it a bit like an adjective..a ghostlike experience..meaning it reacted like a stereotypical ghost..however, I don't claim it is the soul of the departed or anything..not officially...I have suspicions, but won't state matter of factly (mostly due to no hard evidence).

But ya..for me, it makes it a bit awkward to discuss such things given subjective experiences clashing with my naturally skeptical mindset..
Personally I think it makes me a better skeptic actually, because I actually am seeking out an answer as a core aspect of my personality...but answer is what I seek..not a belief one way or another..and most people offer only belief (be it ghosts or insanity).

Its like..imagine for a moment you seen and were abducted by an alien entity..your as rational at the time it happened as you are right now..clear headed, etc. Now, you are curious about knowing more, but when you poke around, you have only 2 groups..the "space brothers" group, or the "your lying or crazy" group..nothing in between...
Truth will not be found embracing either side completely...but it makes you pretty good at smashing through both sides..however, it is frustrating to be dealing with the experience of paranormal with the mindset of skepticism. Fairly lonely place overall.

Anyhow. Assuming my experience was indeed as I suspect (not assume)...and keep in mind I fully agree it makes no rational or logical sense for experience and such to exist outside the body/brain, What does it mean?

The very loose knit speculation I have come up with I already more or less stated..that the brain may be more a receiver from elsewhere with buffering than a complete cd with all information there and only there...

total off the wall speculation there...however, that is a product of my subjective proof of...something.

reply to post by VinceGG

or become a form of energy and does not disappear into nothing. I believe that consciousness/soul/spirit follows the same principal after it is released from our bodies.

that could explain why people have electronics die faster in supposedly haunted houses, because the "spirit" requires energy to stay in its form

Wanted to also point out a consideration on my "ghost".
Lets say again, assuming it is the person (personality?) of the formerly existing.
That doesn't instantly lead me to paranormal as the only answer.

I do enjoy the ancient civilization hypothesis. a civilization 300+ million years ago could have advanced so much that they live as literal energy.
But...your still bored...what better way to pass the time of eternity than to play a game..inhabit some strange creatures to experience a primitive way of life in full immersion (arguably also leads to the holographic universe hypothesis).

If I do have some sort of external soul, It may be a product of a civilization long since grown up and technologically mind bendingly advanced...I could simply be an avatar for my true self...just playing medieval monkeymen to pass the time. No reason to start envoking deities and all that.

pure philosophical ponderings now.

reply to post by AFewGoodWomen


I'm not sure who Ryan Buell is or where you two spoke of this... But if it was your conversation with him that sparked this, I would have given you credit for inspiring the thought or even quoted it myself.

Originally posted by VinceGG
reply to post by AFewGoodWomen

 

I'm not sure who Ryan Buell is or where you two spoke of this... But if it was your conversation with him that sparked this, I would have given you credit for inspiring the thought or even quoted it myself.

Well, just google him and find out.

Perhaps we have a case of "spooky action at a distance" and a prime example of great minds thinking alike....better yet...check out his FB page as well...Ryan D. Buell.
Quantum entanglement...I think soooooooooo....

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Wanted to also point out a consideration on my "ghost".
Lets say again, assuming it is the person (personality?) of the formerly existing.
That doesn't instantly lead me to paranormal as the only answer.

I do enjoy the ancient civilization hypothesis. a civilization 300+ million years ago could have advanced so much that they live as literal energy.
But...your still bored...what better way to pass the time of eternity than to play a game..inhabit some strange creatures to experience a primitive way of life in full immersion (arguably also leads to the holographic universe hypothesis).

If I do have some sort of external soul, It may be a product of a civilization long since grown up and technologically mind bendingly advanced...I could simply be an avatar for my true self...just playing medieval monkeymen to pass the time. No reason to start envoking deities and all that.

pure philosophical ponderings now.

I could talk with you all day.

Originally posted by VinceGG
I'm a longtime lurker of this forum and today as I was talking about religion with one of my friends. I had come up with what seemed like a pretty solid theory. I felt it was important enough to not only search the forums for a similar theory, but to also spend an hour or so on the forums replying to threads I have previously read.

The law of conservation of mass, states that the mass of an isolated system will remain constant over time. Matter in the universe never just disappears completely. Mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space and changed into different types of particles. Basically, it can change states, become another form of matter, or become a form of energy and does not disappear into nothing. I believe that consciousness/soul/spirit follows the same principal after it is released from our bodies.

What are your thoughts?

edit on 21-1-2013 by VinceGG because: Grammar

Wow! You had me on the edge of my seat right up until that last statement. You gave us solid logic all the way through, and then you hit us with "I believe..." lol

Unfortunately, there is nothing in this realm that offers any evidence of an afterlife. What you stated was actually a question (not a bad question to ask, but no less a question) is that IF it is this way here, and IF there is an afterlife, can it also contain the same laws?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Blue Shift

 

When I die, the entire universe and all of reality, including everything that ever was or ever might be, will vanish into nothingness.

And when you are still aware/conscious... will you say... I am nothing?

I say that now, in anticipation of being nothing. When I'm dead, I won't have the consciousness or awareness to call myself anything, even nothing.

Originally posted by metalholic
There was a scientist back in the day who tried to prove that the soul had mass. He proved it I forget how much it weighed. But he actually measured the weight of it.

I'll try to find the sources.

In 1901, MacDougall weighed six patients while they were in the process of dying from tuberculosis in an old age home. It was relatively easy to determine when death was only a few hours away, and at this point the entire bed was placed on an industrial sized scale which was apparently sensitive to the gram. He took his results (a varying amount of perceived mass loss in most of the six cases) to support his hypothesis that the soul had mass, and when the soul departed the body, so did this mass. The determination of the soul weighing 21 grams was based on the average loss of mass in the six patients within moments after death. Experiments on mice and other animals took place. Most notably the weighing upon death of sheep seemed to create mass for a few minutes which later disappeared. The hypothesis was made that a soul portal formed upon death which then whisked the soul away.

Source

edit on 21-1-2013 by metalholic because: (no reason given)

LOL Why did you stop there? The article also went on to explain this:

His results have never been attempted to be reproduced, and are generally regarded either as meaningless or considered to have had little if any scientific merit.[1][2] Nonetheless, MacDougall's finding that presumably the human soul weighed 21 grams has become a meme in the public consciousness, mostly due to its claiming the titular thesis in the 2003 film 21 Grams.

But, thanks to you I am going to do a search for this movie.

reply to post by jiggerj


I proposed it that way because I didn't want to shove my thoughts down other people's throats by stating it as a matter of fact causing an argument. Its just how I viewed it and you're entitled to disagree which makes this a great place to have a discussion... or a forum

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy


No there isnt.

Those are examples of how the brain can try to make sense of things after the fact. People invent stories to explain things, as you see with coincidences leading to grand tales.

reply to post by SaturnFX


A over active imagination of a deluded person.

People invent things that justify their beliefs all i time.... every creek in the floor or gust of wind turns into a ghost. Youll notice the majority of ghost hunters turn out to be FAKE or discover nothing other than hesitant farts, tree branches, or hand prints.