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Neanderthals were more advanced than us. THEY were one of the megalithic cultures of the remote past

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posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 07:42 AM
reply to post by ProfessorAlfB


I like the explanation you give. Also worth considering is the Bermuda triangle which has been known for magnetic interference. It has been speculated to death about an underwater structure being located in the area with some form of technology still active from the remote past that produces the effect.

It was said by "certain" people on this thread that such structures dont exist. Well, there is another thread on the boards RIGHT now that is citing the findings of a team sent off the coast of Cuba to find the structures that others vehemently negate exist. Sonar images were available but ignored by them. NOW they have to ignore VIDEO of it.

It is suspected to be Olmec in nature. I have a theory about them but will hold off until I can better articulate it and provide supporting information.

check it out though. Nice thread going on.

Told you so.....

edit on 24-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 08:28 AM
S & F. What a great thread.

Academia has a long and sordid history of covering up, destroying, hiding, or discrediting archaeological finds that do not neatly fit into the accepted history of the day.

Clearing up a statement that has been made repeatedly in the thread: Cro-magnons are us. They do not represent a separate species. They and modern humans are both toxonomically represented as Homo sapien sapien.

Whom ever made the cave paintings across Europe were artistic masters. Modern artists would have great difficulty reproducing their efforts. It has been noted that their drawings are so technologically advanced that they appear animated under candle light. Remember, this is allegedly man kinds first attempt at creating art, and we jump over making stick figures and go directly to realism and animation ( all supposedly done by firelight in damp and closterphobic caves by persons who would have had to crawl through dangerous and narrow passages to even get to the site.), and this art was not intended to be seen by the masses, that is how it remained hidden for 20-25+/- thousand years.

posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 10:00 AM
reply to post by rimjaja

thanks, I am glad you enjoyed it.

I wanted to finish my Neanderthal theory before starting on my Cro-magnon theory as I believe they are realted. My head will explode later trying to organize this thread if I skip a beat, but I think I can throw something in about it now.

You are right, they are us....what I think happened, and so explains the minimal Neanderthal DNA we find in us is,

that cro-magnon man is THE hybrid. I didn't want to jump the Gun as it is that this post will get reamed for no supporting evidence. This is also why I disagreed with the Nephilim theory concerning Neanderthal. I did not say anything about cro-magnon man. I didn't want to expand then, nor do I just yet, but that is my train of thought.

I will just say that homo-sapien IMO had very small populations but existed for longer than we give ourselves credit for. We had a subservient relationship with neanderthals. After the event that ended their civilization, they used us for more than our service and that relationship changed.

I will just post this tit-bit and ignore the issue for now until I finish with Neanderthal (if ever) and provide the sources of the exodus routes of their advanced civilization that I think they took.

I will argue, If I can read all the material before me and organize my notes and post it, that Neanderthals had a power struggle which displaced them immediately after the event that ended the global civilization. They in turn founded splinter civilizations such as the Olmec. At some point during this, they interbred with homo-sapiens, and created a sub species. Cro-magnon man. This sub species was disruptive to all groups and so was looked unfavorably by all groups.

This is a huge subject and I want to provide the mythological record of this event in a coherent manner. This post will serve as an outline of sorts if anyone wants to give me a hand.

I know homo-sapiens "had" Africa....and I will argue the Olmec /African theory.....but I will get to that.

So the tit bit.

125,000-120,000 years ago anatomically "modern" homo sapiens made an exodus out of north-eastern Africa and in to the Levant[1], which was already occupied by homo sapiens Neanderthalensis[2]. This exodus was unsuccessful[3], and by 80,000 B.C.E. anatomically "modern" homo sapiens had retreated back to Africa. Interbreeding between anatomically "modern" homo sapiens and homo sapiens Neanderthalensis took place at this time[4].

The interbreeding that took place was an exclusively male Neanderthal-female "modern" exchange[5][6]. The archaeological record reveals that by 100,000 B.C.E. anatomically "modern" humans were already Neanderthal hybrids.[7] Therefore, there was a master-slave relationship between Neanderthals and "modern" sapiens, with Neanderthals as master, and the "modern" hybrid Cro-Magnon as slave. Leading genetic and archaeological experts agree that male-exclusive interbreeding is usually the result of violence.[8][9]

Neanderthals destroyed and then displaced "modern" homo sapiens in a sexual and territorial offense, and it was not until 50,000 B.C.E. that their hybrid offspring were finally able to locate an escape route out of Africa (through Gibraltar and west Asia), where the cycle would yet again repeat itself just as it did in the Levant.[10]

I came across this while gathering up data for the Neanderthal/ Olmec theory to showcase one possible offshoot of the advanced civilization I credit neanderthal with having had in the distant past.

It is an excellent thread with a great assortment of supporting material I am still going through. I will just posted the first bit from the OP of that thread and site. It is a great read so if you get the chance, check it out.

It seems that I am not alone in many of my ideas. There are many out there that are wise to the mounting evidence.

edit on 24-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 10:18 AM
So one group I wanted to illustrate is the aboriginal people of Australia. Like all things with Australia, the remoteness from the rest of the world has kept them genetically purer from the lack of external groups interbreeding. IMO this is one of the refuges that the advanced civilization took. Why the lack of evidence of complex civilizations? Your eyes want to see huge buildings and ignore the complexity of the people themselves. A similar scenario happens when trying to ascribe simplicity to Native American cultures. The fact they know things they shouldnt goes unnoticed.....Knowledge is important, not buildings.

In 1950, Dr Ralph Solecki of the Smithsonian Institution had excavated the Shanidar cave in Iraqi Kurdistan and discovered evidence of ritualistic burial by Neanderthals, in which the dead had been covered with a quilt of woven wild flowers. His book Shanidar (1971) is subtitled The Humanity of Neanderthal Man. He was the first of many anthropologists to conclude that Neanderthal man was far more than an ape.

Gooch points out that red ochre has been in use since at least 100,000 years ago until today, when it is still used by Australian Aborig­ines. He quotes one authority who calls it “the most spiritually rich and magical of all substances”.

Now, red ochre is the oxidised form of a mineral called magnetite, which, as the name suggests, is magnetic. If a small sliver of magnetite is floated on the surface tension of water, it swings around and points to magnetic north. And in 1000 BC, the Olmecs were using it as a compass needle, floating on cork, a millennium before the Chinese invented the compass.

Early Neanderthals used red ochre
Neanderthals already used iron oxides 250,000 years ago, much earlier than had been thought up to now. This is what Prof. Wil Roebroeks, Professor of Archaeology, and a number of colleagues will say in an article to be published this month in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

One of Gooch’s most amazing statements is that in South Africa, Neanderthal man was digging deep mines to obtain red ochre 100,000 years ago. “One of the largest sites evidenced the removal of a million kilos of ore.” Other mines were discovered dated to 45,000, 40,000 and 35,000 years ago. In all cases, the site had been painstakingly filled in again, presumably because the Earth was regarded as sacred. Neanderthal man seems to have used the red ochre for ritual­istic purposes, including burial.

Land - at the core of belief

APY Lands, Ku Arts Tours. Courtesy of Ananguku Arts.

Land is fundamental to the wellbeing of Aboriginal people. The land is not just soil or rocks or minerals, but a whole environment that sustains and is sustained by people and culture. For Indigenous Australians, the land is the core of all spirituality and this relationship and the spirit of 'country' is central to the issues that are important to Indigenous people today.

All of Australia's Aboriginals were semi-nomadic hunters and gatherers, with each clan having its own territory from which they 'made their living'. These territories or 'traditional lands' were defined by geographic boundaries such as rivers, lakes and mountains. They understood and cared for their different environments, and adapted to them.

"We cultivated our land, but in a way different from the white man. We endeavoured to live with the land; they seemed to live off it. I was taught to preserve, never to destroy."
Aborigine Tom Dystra

Indigenous knowledge of the land is linked to their exceptional tracking skills based on their hunter and gather life. This includes the ability to track down animals, to identify and locate edible plants, to find sources of water and fish.

posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 10:23 AM

In 1950, Dr Ralph Solecki of the Smithsonian Institution had excavated the Shanidar cave in Iraqi Kurdistan and discovered evidence of ritualistic burial by Neanderthals, in which the dead had been covered with a quilt of woven wild flowers. His book Shanidar (1971) is subtitled The Humanity of Neanderthal Man. He was the first of many anthropologists to conclude that Neanderthal man was far more than an ape.

Gooch points out that red ochre has been in use since at least 100,000 years ago until today, when it is still used by Australian Aborig­ines. He quotes one authority who calls it “the most spiritually rich and magical of all substances”.

Now, red ochre is the oxidised form of a mineral called magnetite, which, as the name suggests, is magnetic. If a small sliver of magnetite is floated on the surface tension of water, it swings around and points to magnetic north. And in 1000 BC, the Olmecs were using it as a compass needle, floating on cork, a millennium before the Chinese invented the compass.

Gooch points out that many creatures, including pigeons, have a cluster of magnetite in the brain, which is used for homing, and asks if it is not conceivable that Neanderthal man also had a magnetite cluster in the brain, which may have enabled him to detect hæmatite under the ground. This, of course, would be simply a variant of the power dowsers have to detect underground water.

For whatever reason Neanderthal man sought red ochre, it seems clear that he must be credited with some kind of civilisation.

I will TRY to link red ochre ore to the cultures that used it and see if it yields insight into places where the neanderthal went and taught the use of it directly or indirectly. Either way its magnetic qualities will indicate IMO some sort of religious application and possibly navigation, as it is known that the Olmecs used it for finding magnetic north.

The earliest potential evidence for complex human culture comes from the site of Blombos Cave in South Africa, where two pieces of ochre engraved with abstract designs have been found, often considered to be the world's first known art, along with shells pierced for use as jewelry and a complex toolkit including finely crafted bone tools. The ensemble is dated to around 75,000 years ago. Another discovery at the same location is 100,000 years old.[1] It has been suggested that the presence of complex culture indicates the use of modern human language.[2] A report published in 2009 on an additional thirteen pieces of ochre states that the results "suggest that symbolic intent and tradition were present in this region at an earlier date than previously thought."

I want to add south Africa to my list of places where a reboot to the neanderthal civilization was attempted. In the very least they "landed" there, or started out there.

Since Gooch’s book came out in 1989, new evidence has accumulated indicating that Neanderthal man also possessed his own technology. In 1996, it was announced that scientists from Tarragona’s Roviri i Virgili University had unearthed 15 furnaces near Capellades, north of Barcelona. Professor Eudald Carbonell stated that they prove that Neanderthal man possessed a skill level far more advanced than anyone had supposed. Homo sapiens, he said, was not an “evolutionary leap” beyond Cro-Magnon man, but only a gentle step from Neanderthal.

Each of the furnaces served a different function according to its size: some ovens, some hearths, some even blast furnaces. The team also discovered an “astonishing variety” of stone and bone tools, as well as the most extensive traces of wooden utensils. (Times, 3 Sept 1996.)

So the technological list grows. I will just post this here since I will use it to connect remote furnace technology across the globe and correlate it to Neanderthal culture being prevalent at the time and place of the anomalies.

In January 2002, it emerged that Neanderthal man made use of a variety of superglue. It was a kind of blackish-brown pitch discovered at a lignite-mining pit in the Harz Mountains, estimated to be 80,000 years old. One of the pieces bore the imprint of fingers and impressions of a flint tool and wood, suggesting that the pitch had served as a sort of glue to secure the wooden shaft to a flint blade. The pitch, from a birch tree, can only be produced at a temperature of 300–400ºC. Prof. Dietrich Mania of the Friedrich-Schiller University in Jena said: “This implies that Neanderthals did not come across these pitches by accident, but must have produced them with intent”.

Now clearly, all this is revolutionary. We take it for granted that human culture began with Cro-Magnon man, Homo sapiens. Our Cro-Magnon ancestors began making drawings in caves about 30,000 years ago and so, we had always assumed, our civilis­ation had its beginnings. But if the Pleiades were recognised 40,000 years ago, then Neanderthal man could have got there first.

This common theme of the Pleiades is also something I want to include now that I will use to link the cultures that were seeded by neanderthals.

Again, an 82,000-year-old bone flute, discovered by Dr Ivan Turk of the Slovenia Academy of Sciences in 1995, demonstrates that Neanderthal man had his own music. It begins to look more and more as if Gooch’s comparison of Neanderthal man to Native Americans is valid. A 26,000-year-old bone sewing needle, complete with a hole for thread, was discovered at another Neanderthal site.

edit on 24-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 10:27 AM

In 1999, I was engaged in pursuing an intriguing little problem. Charles Hapgood, best known as the author of Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings, had died as the result of a car accident that happened in December 1982. Two months earlier, he had written to a librarian named Rand Flem-Ath telling him that he had made “recent exciting discoveries” that had convinced him that there had once been a 100,000-year-old civilisation with “advanced levels of science”. And since I had agreed to collaborate with Flem-Ath on a book about Atlantis, I set out to pursue Hapgood’s contacts to see if I could find out what he meant.

Finally, through a tip-off from one of Hapgood’s acquaintances, I found myself in touch with an archæologist and science writer from New England, who staggered me when he declared that it was he who had given Hapgood this information. What he had told him, he said, was (a) that the Greek measure of distances proved that they knew the exact size of the Earth a millennium or so before Eratos­thenes discovered it (around 250 BC), and (b) that Neanderthal man had a remarkable degree of culture, and was studying the stars by 100,000 BC or earlier.

Now, I had already stumbled on the information about the Greeks in a book called Historical Metrology by AE Berriman (1953), to which the historical researcher Henry Lincoln had introduced me. And the second assertion had been made by Stan Gooch in 1989, in a book called Cities of Dreams.

Gooch was arguing that Neanderthal man had possessed a complex civilisation, but that it was not a civilisation of bricks and mortar, but of ‘dreams’. That hardly seemed to make sense. Surely civilisation is our defence against nature? Dreams are not much use against a hurricane or a sabre tooth tiger.

Gooch launches his argument by comparing Neanderthal man with Native Americans, pointing out that in spite of their complex culture, the latter had no written language and built no houses. What would have happened, Gooch asks, if they had been exterminated by disease or some catastrophe, and had simply vanished? Archæologists would find their skeletons and dismiss them as ‘primitives’, just as we dismiss Neanderthals.

so getting back to the Pleiades, I wanted to include this here as well. This entire article is great.

Speaking of the Seven Sisters, Gooch remarks: “The Pleiades are the only (star grouping) noted and named by every culture on Earth, past and present, from the most advanced to the most primitive”. He points out the similarity of the legends of Australian aborigines, Wyom­ing Indians and the ancient Greeks. In the Greek legend, Orion the Hunter pursues the six maidens and their mother through the forest, until Zeus takes pity on them, and changes them all (including Orion) into stars. In the Australian legend, the hunter is called Wurunna, and he captures two of the seven maidens; but these escape up trees that suddenly grow until they reach the sky, where all the maidens live forever. According to the Wyoming Indians, the seven sisters are pursued by a bear, and climb up a high rock, which grows until it reaches the sky.

Gooch goes on to mention that the Seven Sisters play an equally important role in the legends of the Aztecs, the Incas, the Poly­nesians, the Chinese, the Masai, the Kikuyu, the Hindus and the ancient Egyptians. This worldwide interest in the Pleiades, he argues, surely indicates that it originated in some very early and once central culture.

In Gooch’s view, that culture was Neanderthal. We may doubt this, and prefer to believe that it was our own ancestor, Cro-Magnon. But Gooch certainly had accum­ulated some impressive evidence of the intellectual sophistication of Neanderthal man. He speaks, for example, of a find made at Drachenloch in the Swiss Alps, where a 75,000-year-old bear altar was discovered in a cave. In a rectangular stone chest, whose lid was a massive stone slab, archæologists found seven bear skulls, with their muzzles pointing towards the cave entrance. At the back of the cave, there were niches in the wall with six more bear skulls.

Now seven is, of course, a number associated with shamanism. The Drachenloch cave was clearly a place of ritual – in effect, a church. Moreover, as historian of religion Mircea Eliade tells us, there is a worldwide connection between the bear and the Moon. And this might have been guessed from the fact that the number of skulls in the cave was 13 – the number of lunar months in the year.

This, and many other clues, led Gooch to infer that the religion of Neanderthal man was based on Moon worship, and Neanderthals were the first ‘star gazers’. He argues that, among much else, the knowledge of precession of the equinoxes, noted by Giorgio de Santillana and Herta von Dechend in Hamlet’s Mill, probably originated with Neanderthal man.

A ‘church’ implies a priest or shaman, so Neanderthal man must have had his sham­ans, ‘magicians’ who played an important part in the hunting rituals, as shamans do worldwide. Is it chance that the Moon godd­ess is Diana the Huntress? Is she perhaps also a legacy from Neanderthal man?

I will argue that the Pleiades are used by neanderthal man to track the diaspora across the globe. That they are either indicative of groups or areas where they spread to. Either way, IMO the Pleiades are related to the initial global spreading of neanderthal man.

Recently, as many of you might know, Brian Sykes in his book “The Seven Daughters of Eve” (2001, ISBN 0-393-02018-5) scientifically proved Heyerdahl´s theory of a South American diaspora to Polynesia to be wrong. DNA analyses proved that the genetic heritage of the Polynesians was Asian (more specifically Chinese), and not the other way around...

I also wish to link the practice of head binding to imitate the gods....Neanderthals had longer and larger skulls initially then the point when they died out. Like us, their brain and skulls shrunk in relation to earlier specimens.
IMO the changing atmosphere, which is still happening today but at a slower pace has a direct effect on the size our brains can grow during developmental periods, and so the skull itself ends up being progressively smaller.

IMO places that practiced this were also places neanderthal tried to re-establish himself.
The act of trying to "keep appearances" may have started with neanderthal and was later mimicked by the more primitive homo-sapiens. Another theory is that they just wanted to look like their Gods....which being Neanderthals had larger and longer skulls compared to them.

The first skull presents problems of its own. The frontal part of the skull seems to belong to an individual of the pre-Neanderthal family, but the lower jaw, though more robust than modern human type, has a modern shape and characteristics. The shape of the cranium does not have any comparison with the Erectus, Neanderthal types, nor the modern human type. Some minor Neanderthal characteristics are present, as is the occipital ridge on the bottom back of the skull and the flattened bottom of the cranium, other characteristics point more towards Homo Erectus.

The angle of the cranial bottom is, though, unusual. We cannot exclude the possibility of a deformed individual in this case, but it is highly unlikely that the angle of the frontal part would require a modification of the lower jaw in the process of growing to resemble modern human types with their projected chin rim. The answer seems to be that the skull belongs to a representative of an unknown premodern human or humanoid type.

As is obvious from the comparison with a modern human skull, the cranial capacity lies within the modern human range. This is not surprising, since the late Neanderthals and early modern humans (Cro-Magnon) had larger cranial capacities (both roughly 1600 ccm to 1750 ccm) than modern humans (av. 1450 ccm). The decrease of the cranial capacity (sudden at that -- the specimens of modern humans after about 10500 BCE have smaller craniums) is a puzzling matter, but that's another story.

Intentional head moulding producing extreme cranial deformations was once commonly practised in a number of cultures widely separated geographically and chronologically, and so was probably independently invented more than once. It still occurs today in a few places, like Vanuatu.
Early examples of intentional human cranial deformation predate written history and date back to 45,000 BC in Neanderthal skulls, and to the Proto-Neolithic Homo sapiens component (12th millennium BCE) from Shanidar Cave in Iraq.[1][2] It occurred among Neolithic peoples in SW Asia.[3]

Also I know I will come across counter arguments for the traditional migration patterns for ours and other species of hominids. Those migrations supposedly are the determining factors for the facial features of neanderthal. I will argue that their facial and cranial features are better suited for hot weather and that they came from a period in earths history with a uniform temperature for earth, as I alluded to earlier due to a high pressure system essentially over the whole planet when our biosphere produced a hyperbolic effect on life.


Many morphological features of the Pleistocene fossil hominin Homo neanderthalensis, including the reputed large size of its paranasal sinuses, have been interpreted as adaptations to extreme cold, as some Neanderthals lived in Europe during glacial periods. This interpretation of sinus evolution rests on two assumptions: that increased craniofacial pneumatization is an adaptation to lower ambient temperatures, and that Neanderthals have relatively large sinuses. Analysis of humans, other primates, and rodents, however, suggests that the first assumption is suspect; at least the maxillary sinus undergoes a significantreduction in volume in extreme cold, in both wild and laboratory conditions.

The second assumption, that Neanderthal sinuses are large, extensive, or even ‘hyperpneumatized,’ has held sway since the first specimen was described and has been interpreted as the causal explanation for some of the distinctive aspects of Neanderthal facial form, but has never been evaluated with respect to scaling. To test the latter assumption, previously published measurements from two-dimensional (2D) X-rays and new three-dimensional (3D) data from computed tomography (CT) of Neanderthals and temperate-climate EuropeanHomo sapiens are regressed against cranial size to determine the relative size of their sinuses.

The 2D data reveal a degree of craniofacial pneumatization in Neanderthals that is both commensurate with the size of the cranium and comparable in scale with that seen in temperate climate H. sapiens. The 3D analysis of CT data from a smaller sample supports this conclusion. These results suggest that the distinctive Neanderthal face cannot be interpreted as a direct result of increased pneumatization, nor is it likely to be an adaptation to resist cold stress; an alternative explanation is thus required.

resources I will use later.

edit on 24-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 12:53 PM

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by Harte

His claimed date happens to coincide with a period that was wet. At the time, we didn't know anything about several subsequent wet periods.

you referred to wet periods and the theory relying on what "happened to be" wet periods in your last post.....that is who mentioned it. Do you not even understand what you parrot? That is what it is referring to.

So, to you, "wet period" equals "dense jungle environment like South America" as you put it?

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
You keep calling me a liar....imagine why I would not appreciate that..?

Your appreciation is not required. This isn't a dating site.

Besides which, your claims are not appreciated by those of us that recognize them for what they are. If that were not the case, I wouldn't have even responded.

This is how I see it - either you fabricated the lies I pointed out (and you have yet to explain,) or you are posting lies other people have stated without you making any effort to check the facts.

Either way...

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
His issue with the walls being "different" ages as you say is that he debunks the counter arguments by saying the erosion would then have to be uniform, it is not. So the exposed areas were eroded by RAIN WATER....nice try though.Talk about cherry pickers.

You are ignoring not only what I stated, but what Schoch's date is actually based on. Do I have to quote it for you? Have you not actually read his paper on this? I already pointed out how Schoch arrived at his date. He used subsurface (that's under the ground) weathering, which is not a recognized method for dating anything.

Schoch started from an assumption that he (and only he) made - that the rear of the sphinx was completed during the 4th Dynasty. Only the front, he claimed, was there prior to the 4th Dynasty. Yet, as I pointed out, using Schoch's own data and methods indicates that the sides of the enclosure are older than either the back or the front.

Rain has nothing to do with this. The sort of weathering Schoch measured seismically begins when limestone is exposed to air. You can find this info in Schoch's first paper on the subject: Redating the Great Sphinx of Giza, from 1991, which is (I assume) the same paper you quoted from.

Besides, the rear of the enclosure is even more eroded (on the surface - the erosion you're talking about) than the sides. In what way, exactly, does Schoch's theory explain this uncomfortable fact?

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
please be civil and stop attacking people by calling us liars, and in so doing proving us right on the issue of stubbornness in academia due to close mindedness. The facts speak for themselves.

Everything I posted was factual. I agree that facts speak for themselves, which is why we know for a fact that (for example,) when the Sphinx was erected, Giza was not a "dense jungle environment like South America" as you stated.

I note that you have yet to substantiate your claim that "we" say that certain indigenous tribes erected certain megalithic structures, while the tribes themselves actually stated that they did not. Of course, to me this is not surprising. It's hard to substatiate a blatantly false claim.

It is, however, very easy to argue against strawmen like that one, isn't it?

You shouldn't assume that readers here can't recognize your strawmen for what they are.


posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 03:11 PM

The new study backs up recent research which suggests that early humans and Neanderthals lived side by side in caves in northern Israel.

When the Neanderthal genome was sequenced in 2010 it revealed that people outside Africa share slightly more genetic variants with Neanderthals than Africans do.

So we know that the "home land for Homo-sapiens is Africa. We know that there was a point in time that Neanderthals PEACEFULLY interbred with Homo-Sapiens. Northern Israel is a tremendously historic area, all through out history. It is regarded as the earths navel. Many have speculated that area to be a sort of "center" point for the earth. Grids can be made where monolithic sites all line up on across the globe and the intersecting point is this area.

I propose that this was a sort of "capitol" for the once global civilization. I argue though that it was a second capitol. That this was the origin point for the failed reboot of their civilization. They interbred with homo sapiens which existed, but may have not been exactly equals.

I am under the impression that homo-sapiens were a sort of servant race to Neanderthal. The interbreeding between the two was a pivotal event that marked their reborn civilization for its eventual destruction. It may have come from necessity on the part of Neanderthal, but ultimately the offspring, chro-magnon man was unbalanced.

Human populations were originally not too different from us, but were not mixed with cro-magnon as later populations were. Cro-magnon was an independent species that broke off from the society that bore them and sought an alternative form of life. One that was at odds with the naturalistic Neanderthal. It sought a more comfortable lifestyle and employed the knowledge of their ancestors to build the complex society that almost destroyed the Neanderthal long before their arrival. They chose to do so on the backs of homo-sapiens which their parent species Neanderthal was still using as subservient species.

Cro-magnon man shadowed the migration of Neanderthal, but had its own dominion. it eventually tried to conquer all the land of the other groups, and so was more of a plague to homo-sapiens. This changed the nature of humanity and its symbiotic relationship with their gods, Neanderthal.

Neanderthal was then at odds with the mess of things that their offspring race cro-magnon had made of the balance they had achieved. They saw the intense building, or rather rebuilding of the world that almost destroyed them as deplorable.

Interbreeding between cro-magnon and homo-Sapiens did happen and resulted in a more "homo-Sapiens" off spring but the mix was looked down on. Homo-Sapiens was to worship cro-magnon as he had his benevolent former gods, Neanderthal.

This did not happen over night. It may have taken 40,000 years give or take for the peaceful existence of Neanderthal and homo-Sapiens to result in interbreeding out of necessity on the part of Neanderthal, and then another 40,000 years give or take for the new dynamic of a mixed "new race" of cro-magnon to appear and mess it all up. Cro-magnon may have been the promise and hope for Neanderthal of reconstituting its numbers without degrading genetically. They did not expect for cro-magnon to defy them and attempt their own supremacy.

Cro-magnon probably wanted to refine their own genes with their father race and get as much knowledge as they could from them. IMO the knowledge of advanced civilization would have been taboo and severely degraded after so long of Neanderthal living with the primitive homo-sapiens.

Cro-magnon started building on a massive scale and in so doing angered the Neanderthal who saw balance in co-existence and harmony. Living with the land instead of living off the land. They also were probably upset with the way homo-sapiens were being used as a slave race instead of a subservient race in symbiosis with the wiser and stronger Neanderthal.

One scenario that could explain this observation is that modern humans mixed with Neanderthals when they came out of Africa.

Modern humans begin to appear in the African fossil record about 200,000 years ago while Neanderthals appear in the European fossil record about 230,000 years ago and disappear about 30,000 years ago, the researchers wrote.

They lived in Europe and western Asia with a range that extended as far east as Siberia and as far south as the middle East.

The overlap of Neanderthals and modern humans in space and time suggests the possibility of interbreeding. Evidence both for and against interbreeding have been put forth based on the analysis of modern human DNA.

Dr Sriram Sankararaman, of Harvard Medical School's genetics department, and colleagues measured the length of DNA pieces in the genomes of Europeans that are similar to Neanderthals.

Since recombination between chromosomes when egg and sperm cells are formed reduces the size of such pieces in each generation, the Neanderthal-related pieces will be smaller the longer they have spent in the genomes of present-day people.

Based on their findings, published in the open-access journal PLoS Genetics, the team estimate that Neanderthals and modern humans last exchanged genes between 37,000 and 86,000 years

This article is interesting in its analysis of cro-magnon man, his sudden emergence and disappearance. They deconstruct the features of Cro-magnon and make an excellent case for just what I am saying. That interbreeding of Neanderthal and homo-sapiens made this off shoot. A mix of the two.

These are the nephilim that caused their own demise and that of their father race of Gods, the first gods....

The forward projection of the upper jaw is also distinctive. The eye sockets are low-set, wide, and rather square in shape; and the nasal aperture of the skull is narrow and strongly projecting. The mandible is robust, with massive ascending ramus (the upward projection of the lower jaw, where it attaches to the skull), has strongly developed points of muscular attachment, and a quite prominent chin. The stature of Cro-Magnon is from five feet five inches to five feet seven inches. Though in some areas they are taller.

The question of the relation of Cro-Magnons to the earliest forms of Homo-sapiens (like Neanderthal) is still unclear. It does appear however, that Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals are closer in affinity than was once believed. Though Cro-Magnon is found all over Europe, Asia and the Mediterranean, The tendency now is to locate the origin of the Cro-Magnon type Humanoid in the Middle-east: as typified by the remains found at the Jebel Qafzeh and Skhul sites in what is now Israel.

Though the inescapable logical conclusion, is that Cro-Magnon is the product of Modern man cross-breeding with Neanderthal. Like all the other theory's relating to early man, it has not yet been proven. But just as complex as the origin of Cro-Magnons, is the duration of Cro-Magnons. It appears that they only flourished during the Upper Paleolithic (old stone age 40,000 - 4,000 years ago).

edit on 24-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 03:28 PM
I would also now like to say that the whole dynamic of divine rule in an artificial society is the product of these years of reconstruction by Cro-magnon man. Neanderthal may have wanted them to rebuild, and so be the ones to rule the planet and mankind. IMO they did not.

If we look to rulers who claimed divine rule, or rather God status, we may find compelling evidence of them being cro-magnoids.

look at these skulls and see for yourself the resemblance of on of the most controversial pharaohs of Egypt.

Update 2009 - The occupant of the `mystery tomb' of the Valley of the Kings (KV 55 Wiki ref.) is now said to be Akenaten - based on DNA testing which indicated he was was the son of Amenhotep III and the father of Tutankhamun, and that his `age-at-death' was consistent with Akenaten's estimated demise.

notice the similarities with neanderthal. IMO the rulers were more genetically pure and closer to the original Gods (neanderthal). It never sat right with me the difference in Cro-magnon skulls. I would argue that as they mixed with homo-sapiens they lost the neanderthal traits as time passed and interbreeding progressed. That may be the origin of rulers claiming their divine lineage. Further impurity of the blood line would make them more like the cattle (us) and less like the gods of old which they based their supremacy on.

here is a Neanderthal on the left and a cro-magnon on the right. Notice the similarities with both to Akenaten of the cro-magnon skull. The teeth, low hung eye sockets, and nose. NOTE, the nose was probably slightly damaged by Egyptian funeral practices. To me the teeth and eye sockets are a dead give away....this guy was of Cro-magnon lineage. His divine right of rule and "godship" was by claiming to be A Son (descendant) of the gods. A Nephilim type claim.

edit on 24-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 04:20 PM
"Again, an 82,000-year-old bone flute, discovered by Dr Ivan Turk of the Slovenia Academy of Sciences in 1995, demonstrates that Neanderthal man had his own music."

But how does he know for sure that the flute was actually made by a Neanderthal? It could just as well been made by Homo Sapiens, as they left Africa up to 120,000 years ago and were therefore around at that time too.
This is the problem with your theory...You are basing it on assumptions that could be completely wrong.
BTW, the binding of skulls in ancient Homo Sapiens was not to make their heads look like those of Neanderthals, (which they don't after binding anyway!), but to look more like the Aliens that had created them.
Again, finds like the skull of the "starchild" shows that you cannot simply ignore the Alien contribution to early Human evolution.
Lets face it, we are all 99% Chimpanzee and it is only that tiny 1% of difference in our DNA that makes us Human.
Was that 1% difference entirely the product of Natural Selection alone? Unlikely. What is just as probable is that the most evolved primate on the planet when the aliens first arrived was the Chimpanzee and through their highly advanced test tube genetic skills plus a dab of their own DNA, they created us.
They probably didn't get it right first time though and other species of humans were created as well.
Neanderthals, Cro-Magnons etc, and at various times in the past.
They were not killed off by the Aliens but left to survive as best they could, in competition with each other.
In fact their is plenty of evidence that this alien dabbling in DNA has been going on here for many millions of years, such as fossilised human footprints in rocks dated to 108 million years ago!!:

posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 01:13 AM
reply to post by ProfessorAlfB

I am not assuming anything. The flute was found in a Neanderthal cave. The theory for head binding across cultures that are geographically and chronologically separated people's practicing it. You say it was to look like their Gods as I do. You say their Gods are aliens, I say they are more local.

IMO aliens may exist but those that were described as Gods were left overs from an advanced race of man.

All primates are related but vastly different. We have more in common with Neanderthal and cro-magnon than a chimpanzee.

That to me is evidence of progression within those groups by means of interbreeding.
edit on 25-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 03:36 AM
So here is an excellent article explaining the aspect of head binding. It takes a look at several cultures which practice this even today.

It origin can be traced back to neanderthal and early prehistoric times. The reason is always to link to their past. Either to their ancestors or to their cultural identity. It is a marker for belonging to a particular group.

Also it is a trait of priest class or those closer to the gods, the intermediaries. Like for example the priest class in Egypt and the Pharaohs themselves who claimed to descend from the Gods thus making them Gods. South American cultures usually had kings that had to prove to be descendents of the gods to be made rulers. Usually their divine status as being descended from the gods was very important. Their ancestral traits were viably larger craniums by and far. The priest class, shamans, and the like usually tried to improve their appearance by these methods of body modification in an attempt to be considered of "divine lineage" and so natural rulers of men.

In addition to cranial surgery, another artificial modification of the human skull present in the archaeological record, which is perhaps better known, is skull shaping. Like trephination, this practice of modifying the shape of the human skull is present on every inhabited continent and at various periods in human history and prehistory. It even appears in the archaeological record of Neanderthals.

A recent study in the Andes examined the cultural aspects of intentional cranial modification in Peruvian society, focusing on regional differentiations between the Moquegua and Katari valleys. It was found that, while the fronto-occipital type of cranial deformation was culturally preferred in the Moquegua valley, it was the annular-oblique type that found favor among those in the neighboring Katari valley. The actual presence of cranial modification between the two regions presented no statistical difference. Both valleys were equally likely to practice cranial deformation. The researchers found, however, that when the type of deformation was controlled for, the two valleys completely favored one over the other. It was also discovered that in the capital city of Tiwanaku in the highlands, both types were present. Previous researchers considered the difference in forms at Tiwanaku as representative of differences in class with the annular form belonging to a priestly class.

Another inspiration for in vivo cranial modification might be ancestor worship. Perhaps one of the best known instances of ancestor worship that involves skull modification comes from Jericho in the Near East. Fletcher et al describe in detail the plastered skulls of Jericho and make a novel correlation between antemortem and postmortem deformations. The skulls they examine originate from the Pre-Pottery Neolithic (PPN) B period of the Levant at about 10,500-8,700 years ago.

So we can trace this custom to Neanderthal. The practice itself has no explanation to have developed independently. There is no reason these cultures would think it "better" or more divine if not inspired by someone who did it and that they mimicked. Neanderthal was the first to practice it. BUT we say Neanderthal was limited to Europe? does that explain what is clearly their custom being spread far and wide?

I of coarse say it was brought with them to everywhere they tried to reestablish themselves after their global civilization was destroyed. Or it was left over in those cultures´ ancestors from those times.

The practice by Neanderthal may have come from trying to cope with having the world climate and ecological nature of every species change. They are known, as well as every other hominid to have had their skulls shrink and grow smaller over time, as we have noticed in our own species. It may be a way to preserve what was seen as a cultural badge of identity, or simply have been considered more esthetically pleasing since they saw the change in their people to be "uglier".

Along with the radiographic evidence that the plastered skulls were modified in vivo, there also exists cultural evidence for the aesthetic appeal for certain head shapes in Neolithic iconography by way of figurines that exhibit elongated skulls. Female figurines excavated from Tell Ramad depict an elongated form and at the Late Neolithic to Middle Chalcolithic site of Coga Mish in Iran,

three figurines found there were of human heads that exhibit a round frontal view, but are clearly flattened and elongated in the back, consistent with in vivo cranial modification. Indeed they each have a painted black band encircling the head which could represent bandage bindings. Evidence of skull shaping is also present at Ganj darra, Ali Kosh, Choga Safid, and Choga Mish which each produced skulls where the individuals had undergone shaping in vivo by use of bindings as infants

the generalized veneration of ancestral ties may reflect attempts to cope with the social and economic stresses associated with the changing economic and subsistence strategies of the PPNB and the growth of permanent large-scale centres such as Jericho and it becomes easier to accept that children as well as adults could have assumed a significant role in linking living communities with their past. The modification of the human skull in the Pre-Pottery Neolithic may very well have been a way of ensuring heredity and kinship within a growing and diversifying population that was becoming increasingly sedentary, which may explain the preference for skulls modified in vivo for postmortem veneration.

Perhaps the former foragers, now agriculturalists, of the Pre-Pottery Neolithic had ancestors within their societies who were considered inspirational leaders and founders of the societies themselves -individuals who were remembered as having skull shapes and sizes that, while not outside the normal range for H. sapiens sapiens, were nonetheless noticeably different. Perhaps, in an attempt to venerate these leaders or founders, or to establish kinship with them, parents began the practice of binding their infants’ heads to ensure this link to the past and to their ancestors. Perhaps something similar can be said for Andean societies in and around Tiwanaku where diversity and ancestry both appeared to be appreciated and venerated. The Arawe, who reported no other reason than aesthetics, may have been creating self-caricatures of an ideal form of an ancestor long forgotten, but still venerated unintentionally.

IMO this practice is direct evidence of Neanderthal and related groups teaching this custom where ever they tried to establish themselves. It is used to identify to the ancestors almost always as well as having a connotation of priestly status or linking the modified person with a closer relationship to the Gods that were their civilization´s founders.

edit on 25-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 05:34 AM
So I want to add this now. We mentioned before the red haired giants that existed all throughout the world in odd places.

IMO these were early neanderthals that tried to seed the earth again and reboot their civilization. At this point in the time line they had not been forced to interbreed with humans yet. Some settled and had little to no contact with homo-sapiens until much later when the two species interbred during a population drop in neandethal numbers.

But were neanderthals Red heads?


A team reports in the journal Science that it extracted DNA from the remains of two Neanderthals and retrieved part of an important gene called MC1R.

In modern people, a change - or mutation - in this gene causes red hair, but, until now, no one knew what hair colour our extinct relatives had.

By analysing a version of the gene in Neanderthals, the scientists found that they also have sported fiery locks.

"We found a variant of MC1R in Neanderthals which is not present in modern humans, but which causes an effect on the hair similar to that seen in modern redheads," said lead author Carles Lalueza-Fox, assistant professor in genetics at the University of Barcelona, Spain.

The reason that scientists have posited that Neanderthals were red-haired is that they examined the region around a melanocortin receptor gene which serves as something of a master regulator in terms of melanin production. Their sample was of two Neanderthals, one from Italy and one from Spain, and both exhibited signs of loss of function within this region. An N = 2 is small, but one must recall the fact that they are independent draws as they were sampled from different regions.

Also, since then from what I recall in the Denisovan paper the authors noted that all four of their Neanderthals, from Spain, to Italy, to Croatia, to the Caucasus, seem to have a shared recent common history back to an extreme population bottleneck.

Red hair was also seen as a trait of the founder Gods. So a culture that practiced both head shaping and hair dying to a red tone, would have been a place where Neanderthals had stopped and seeded civilization.

I mentioned earlier red ochre ore. It is an oxidized form of magnetite. Those employing it as a hair dye may have been trying to emulate the hair color of their founder Gods. If they practiced skull elongation, dying their hair color red, and in addition had furnace technology that was out of place, like evidence of blast furnace technology with iron or other forms of metallurgy, Had precise knowledge of stars and planets they should not have by it not being visible with the naked eye, then I will argue these were location where the tall neanderthal red heads first tried their luck.

I say it was when they first came from an advanced culture since they had not yet attempted to live as homo-sapiens yet and may have still had some form of advanced technology at their disposal.

Gooch points out that red ochre has been in use since at least 100,000 years ago until today, when it is still used by Australian Aborig­ines. He quotes one authority who calls it “the most spiritually rich and magical of all substances”.

Now, red ochre is the oxidised form of a mineral called magnetite, which, as the name suggests, is magnetic. If a small sliver of magnetite is floated on the surface tension of water, it swings around and points to magnetic north. And in 1000 BC, the Olmecs were using it as a compass needle, floating on cork, a millennium before the Chinese invented the compass.

also using red ochre may itself have been taught by neanderthal to homo-sapiens as civilization was imparted to them.

I mentioned earlier

Early Neanderthals used red ochre
Neanderthals already used iron oxides 250,000 years ago, much earlier than had been thought up to now. This is what Prof. Wil Roebroeks, Professor of Archaeology, and a number of colleagues will say in an article to be published this month in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

edit on 25-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 07:23 AM
reply to post by zedVSzardoz

The term "Cro Magnon" refers to Modern Homo Sapiens found in that region of France. IOW, we are "Cro Magnon."

So the statement that "Human populations were originally not too different from us, but were not mixed with cro-magnon as later populations were." is baseless and therefore inane.


posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 07:42 AM
Iron oxides like Haematite and Magnatite are rich enough in Iron to be fed directly into blast furnaces so you seem to be suggesting that the Neanderthals had blast furnace technology and that presumably they were mining iron ore in bulk to produce iron tools, weapons, cooking pots etc, and that this took place many millenia before the Iron age?
OK, so where is the evidence? Where are all these Iron objects now? Have they simply rusted away over time leaving no trace of them today?
Science doesn't simply except the results of a single person unless their results or findings can be replicated by others...How many other researchers have uncovered Neanderthal blast furnaces? That would be none.
You see, you are basing your entire theory on the words of a single researcher who may be completely wrong.
Back to skull binding...Lets assume that skull binding was practiced to make early man look more like their "gods"...What gods would have a bulbous elongated heads???
Its certainly not a feature found in any terrestrial fossil and its not a feature found in a single member of the fossils of early hominids. Are you suggesting that they were trying to resemble something that didn't exist?
So what do their bound heads resemble then?...Simple, the heads of Grey aliens!
Yes, this is evidence in plain sight that mankinds creators were not some early privative terrestrial homonid, they were litterally the "gods that came from the skies", the common belief amongst all ancient peoples on every continent.
Any race capable of interstellar travel would certainly have the scientific and medical technology to dabble with the DNA of Earths early hominids and it explains how many of the giant ancient monuments were built, when they cannot even be replicated with todays technology.
With all the abductions going on and the crash at Corona/Roswell, Area 51 etc, etc...It simply means that "the gods" are still here today, still visiting Earth and still manipulating us.
Surely you don't think that every Alien abductee is simple making it up?
For those of us lucky enough to have actually seen one of their craft in the flesh, this is old news...Whilst I haven't been abducted, I have seen their craft, alas only from the outside, but it was still impressive nonetheless.
Imagine how much more impressive their craft would have seemed to stone age man, before the wheel had even been invented!
And thats why they were prepared to go through a lifetime of pain to shape their heads to try and look more liike them.
Stone aged man even left us relatively accurate drawings of them, like in the cave drawings found in Croatia and Australia.
Neanderthals were just another result of their DNA manipulation of early terrestrial hominids, perhaps their first.
Homo Sapiens never worshipped the Neanderthals as gods as you seem to suggest....They were all equal, all children of the gods...
edit on 25-1-2013 by ProfessorAlfB because: Spelling

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edit on 25-1-2013 by ProfessorAlfB because: s

posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 07:52 AM
next lets see how red hair is viewed by society even still today to make a comparison as to how ancient man saw red hair and what he associated it with. Lets take a look at the cultural differences between traditionally red haired people.

The Budini (Greek: Boudinoi) were an ancient people who lived in Scythia, in what is today Ukraine.
Herodotus wrote in his Histories (iv.21, 108, 109):
“ The Budini for their part, being a large and numerous nation, is all mightily blue-eyed and ruddy. And a city among them has been built, a wooden city, and the name of the city is Gelonus. Of its wall then in size each side is of thirty stades and high and all wooden. And their homes are wooden and their shrines. For indeed there is in the very place Greek gods’ shrines adorned in the Greek way with statues, altars and wooden shrines and for triennial Dionysus festivals in honour of Dionysus ”

“ Above the Sauromatae (Sarmatians), possessing the second region, dwell the Budini, whose territory is thickly wooded with trees of every kind. The Budini are a large and powerful nation: they have all deep blue eyes, and bright red hair. The Budini, however, do not speak the same language as the Geloni, nor is their mode of life the same. They are the aboriginal people of the country, and are nomads; unlike any of the neighbouring races, they eat lice.

Their country is thickly planted with trees of all manner of kinds. In the very woodiest part is a broad deep lake, surrounded by marshy ground with reeds growing on it. Here otters are caught, and beavers, with another sort of animal which has a square face. With the skins of this last the natives border their capotes: and they also get from them a remedy, which is of virtue in diseases of the womb... Beyond the Budini, as one goes northward, first there is a desert, seven days' journey across...

One such person, or rather couple is Adam and eve. While Adam´s name has always been associated with red, or "red man" as his name translates into.His first wife Lilith has always been described as having red hair as well.

Lilith has a rebellious nature to her. Her presence in the Talmud and dead sea scrolls confirms that she was not a medieval addition.

here is a little back story for Lilith.

Erubin 18b says that after the expulsion from Eden, Adam was separated from Eve for 130 years, during which time the seed he wasted created "ghouls, demons and lilin". I. e. in Talmudic tradition, not Lilith but Adam engendered the lilin, a connection that may be the origin of the later association of Lilith and Adam.

In some passages of the Kabbala, as well as in the 13th century Treatise on the Left Emanation [2], Lilith is the mate of Samael.

A medieval reference to Lilith as the first wife of Adam is the anonymous The Alphabet of Ben-Sira, written sometime between the 8th and 11th centuries. Lilith is described as refusing to assume a subservient role to Adam during sexual intercourse and so deserting him ("She said, 'I will not lie below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but only on top.

For you are fit only to be in the bottom position, while I am to be the superior one.'"). Lilith promptly uttered the name of God, took to the air, and left the Garden, settling on the Red Sea coast. As a side note, this places Lilith in a unique position, for she left the Garden of her own accord and before the Fall of Man, and so is untouched by the Tree of Knowledge. However, according to legend, she also knows the "true name of God". The Alphabet of Ben-Sira is the earliest surviving source of the story, and the conception that Lilith was Adam's first wife became only widely known with the 17th century Lexicon Talmudicum of Johannes Buxtorf

Lilith then went on to mate with Asmodai and various other demons she found beside the Red Sea, creating countless lilin. Adam urged God to bring Lilith back, so three angels were dispatched after her. When the angels, Senoy, Sansenoy, and Semangelof, made threats to kill one hundred of Lilith's demonic children for each day she stayed away, she countered that she would prey eternally upon the descendants of Adam and Eve, who could be saved only by invoking the names of the three angels. She did not return to Adam.

and to see how Red hair was viewed as far as biblical characters......

One of the most famous Bible characters is Adam.
Bible reference from the New American Standard Bible translation: Genesis 2:7 - "Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."
Hebrew is read right to left, and the term ‘adam’ (pronounced ‘aw-dawm’) is the term used for ‘man’ ‘mankind’ ‘human individual or species’ ‘blood flowing into the skin as in a living being’ -- literally means "red-blooded man." The word consists of 3 letters (right to left) - Aleph, Daleth, and Mem. The Hebrew word for 'blood' is "dam" -- the letters Daleth and Mem.

Bible reference from the New American Standard Bible translation: Genesis 25:25 – "Now the first (of twins) came forth red, all over like a hairy garment; and they named him Esau."
Red: 'ahdmoni' (pronounced: "ahd-mo-nee") reddish (of the hair or the complexion) -- red, ruddy.
So, entire body is supposed to have been covered with hair, but redness could be from reddish or ruddy complexion of skin OR could be from red hair covering him…no way to know really but seemed to have been a hairy guy!

David (King David)
According to The Bible’s Old Testament and Hebrew Bible, David lived around 1037-970 BC, writing many of the Psalms. This famous Bible character was the 2nd king of the United Kingdom of Israel and also reigned over Judah. He was a poet, musician, and warrior and one of my favorite famous people regardless of hair color!
Bible reference from the New American Standard Bible translation: I Samuel 16 - 17 = "When the Philistine looked and saw David, he disdained him; for he was but a youth, and ruddy, with a handsome appearance."

Again here, the Biblical Hebrew word, "ahdmoni" , means ruddy and is the form taken by the adjective ‘red’ – used as a term of praise of the human skin, the term often used in the Bible. So, could pertain to a reddish or ruddy complexion but perhaps did mean reddish hair as well.

next I want to propose the argument that the biblical God was a physical being and a red head or red in nature....
He did not want people to look upon his face, as is repeated many times, since IMO he was actually a "THEY".

They (Neanderthals) used the identity of "God" to survive in ever difficult times. it would make sense for Neanderthals having to cope with smarter and better educated Homo-sapiens to have to lie a little as well as throw every technological trick up their sleeves to keep homo-sapiens under their command and out of their way. They would also need food and materials which were traditionally offered up to the Gods in every culture.

In earlier times we simply did as they pleased. After the Cro-magnon took us as slaves and taught us more so they could do less, we became sentient in our own right and aware of the true nature of life and gods. THAT was why the cro-magnon was exterminated by Neanderthal. The mythological Titans VS the Olympians, who wished to destroy their off spring and mankind whom their offspring played with and in some cases favored ....

Rev. 4:2-3 "At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it. And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and carnelian."

Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

The God that wrestled with Jacob was physical.

And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

25And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

26And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

27And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.

28And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

29And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved

When the time came for Rebekah to give birth, the firstborn, Esau, came out covered with red hair, as if he were wearing a hairy garment, and his heel was grasped by the hand of Jacob, the secondborn.

The Hebrew Bible, in (Genesis 25:29-34), tells the account of Esau selling his birthright to Jacob. This passage states that Esau, returning famished from the fields, begged Jacob to give him some of the stew that Jacob had just made. (Esau referred to the dish as "that same red pottage", giving rise to his nickname, Hebrew: אדום (`Edom, meaning "Red").) Jacob offered to give Esau a bowl of stew in exchange for his birthright, to which Esau agreed.

edit on 25-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 08:17 AM
reply to post by ProfessorAlfB

to start off lets look at American prehistoric furnaces. &hl=en&sa=X&ei=fpICUc3UN4-QhQfnmYDoCA&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=american%20prehistoric%20furnace&f=false


outline Of Prehistoric Iron Furnace Pit Emerged After A Flood

A flood during the winter of 1949-50 washed away enough of the bank of Deer Creek in Ross County, Ohio to explose the remains of an iron furnace pit. Arlington Mallery, second from left, created quite a stir in the newspapers of Ohio with his discovery of what he insisted were iron furnaces that resemble those last used in Europe before Columbus discovered America.

Glazed Hand Axe Found By Mallery In Arledge Mound

This stone hand axe is one of the most amazing artifacts found in Ohio's prehistoric iron furnaces first excavated by Arlington Mallery in 1949-50.

This artifact, and others like it, suggests that those who built the furnaces were in the early stages of smelting wrought iron in furnace pits like those used in the early iron age in Europe. The use of stone hand tools at iron furnace sites suggests those who dug and used the pit furnaces did so beause of their lack iron and steel tools.

Back to skull binding...Lets assume that skull binding was practiced to make early man look more like their "gods"...What gods would have a bulbous elongated heads???
Its certainly not a feature found in any terrestrial fossil and its not a feature found in a single member of the fossils of early hominids. Are you suggesting that they were trying to resemble something that didn't exist?

did not exist?

Those Neanderthal skulls look pretty long to me. I think it is obvious that these red and blond haired giants are pivotal in my theory of founder Gods being Neanderthals who came from an advanced civilization. If you would allow me to finish articulating my theory, I may just show you why I think so. More than I have already.

The axe mentioned to have dug the pit is neanderthal. It is Bi-faced as their axes were. They used the axe for allot of things. They were prolific axe makers. Neanderthals made an impromptu balst furnace and made either tools or weapons.

Like I said, I will not ignore the plethora of archeological evidence to believe in "nah bro, aliens did it"

I get what you are saying, but dont see it being even half as plausible as advanced hominids.

edit on 25-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 09:45 AM
Humanity has been around much longer than we suspect. We may have just had different populations than we did later. I think the flood that destroyed the last epoch of creation was not a global flood, but rather a localized event from which the population that lived it spread all over the globe. I think that we were a traditionally subservient race to Neanderthal, and that after the Diaspora, when their resources dwindled, technological edge faded, and the earths climate adjusted to the new paradigm that they looked to breed with us for unknown reasons.

Perhaps the nature of the planet had changed by the biosphere losing a layer of water vapor that acted as protection from solar radiation, and as I stated earlier had a hyperbolic effect on life.

Neanderthals may have undergone changes in which their life spans were shortening as well as their physical traits were on a whole changing. that may have led them to look to humanity as a means of diversifying their genetic base with the hopes of purifying the half breeds at a later stage of development. The result was cro-magnon which they may have tried to re-introduce into their population for breeding, but ultimately cro-magnon was exterminated and consumed by humanity which was then allowed to grow to numbers before reserved for Neanderthal. the result was that homo-sapiens interbred with cro-magnon and the genetic material meant to restart Neanderthal invigorated homo-sapiens.

Neanderthal died out as it expected but not before handing humanity all it would need for civilization. The ruler and priest class were the blood lines that were interbred with cro-magnon and remaining Neanderthal. The result was a ruling class slightly different then the rest of humanity, and with an obsession with their blood lines.

on a side note.
while doing research on the ages of man to help explain my theory I came across this gem. It is jam packed with neanderthal art pictures. Check it out. It also has reconstructions of what neanderthal probably looked like. You will find something very appealing about them. It explains a little about the bias neanderthal has faced by us and our total and willful ignorance about the whole subject.

The biggest human obstacles are difficult acceptance of everything what differs from our present conditions,our prejudices and big ego, fear of unknown. While investigating life of Neanderthals, on the beginning, scientists were imagining the worst possible characteristics of our ancestors (cannibalism, lack of spirituality, violence, lack of intelligence, inability to speak)

Neanderthals were for more then century completely abandoned from family of humans by scientists, it was said they were species separate from humans. There were not enough fossils found at that time, it was also very difficult to imagine completely different style of life in completely different climate of Ice age. Although these prejudices and wrong assumption started to disappear with many new fossils which were found, It was very difficult to accept Neanderthals as our true ancestors. Even now through the research of Mitochondrial DNA, scientists are more eager to find differences then similarities. (differences are normal: it passed by hundred thousand years.)

The problem with full acceptance of our Neanderthal roots also must occur when we see our evolution as linear: from ape-like creatures few millions of years ago to the modern man. But what if humanity is much older than we think it is? What if development of human society and human consciousness is not as linear as we try to percieve it?

Through the written human history we see that civilisations raise and fall, after some time new ones raise again, but not much more then the one was before. Ups and downs are happening all the time, so we still know just little part of human history.

Linear concept of time is modern one. It very differs from Indian concept of history of humanity (Vedic cycles) and cosmic concept of old Greek thinkers who were also mentioning cyclic raise and fall of civilisations many times in the history, much longer then we can imagine .In the teachings of Plato, Pythagoras, and Empedocles on the transmigration of the soul, time was conncected with the cyclical patterns as well as development and falls of human society.

"For example, we find in Hesiod's Works and Days a series of ages (gold, silver, bronze, heroic, and iron) similar to the Indian yugas (ages). In both systems the quality of human life becomes progressively worse with each passing age. In On Nature, Empedocles speaks of cosmic time cycles.

In Plato's dialogues, there are descriptions of revolving time and recurring catastrophes destroying or nearly destroying human civilization. Aristotle said often in his works that the arts and sciences had been discovered many times in the past. In the teachings of Plato, Pythagoras, and Empedocles on the transmigration of the soul, the cyclical pattern extends to individual psycho-physical existence."
edit on 25-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 11:03 AM
Ok, so moving along with places where I think the neanderthal descendants came and taught mankind the useful crafts required of civilization I want to mention a few places in particular.

Recent excavations in the Tarim Basin in Xinjiang province have uncovered more than 100 naturally mummified corpses of people who lived there between 4,000 and 2,400 years ago, indicating that the Aryan race of red and blonde hair with blue eyes lived in this area at one time.

The bodies were amazingly well preserved by the arid climate, and according to the New York Times:
"...archaeologists could hardly believe what they saw."

The mummies had long noses and skulls, blond or red hair, thin lips, deepest eyes, and other unmistakably Aryan features. Dr. Victor H. Mair of the University of Pennsylvania said,

"Because the Tarim Basin Caucasoid corpses are almost certainly representatives of the Indo-European family, and because they date from a time period early enough to have a bearing on the expansion of the Indo-European people from their homeland, it is thought that they will play a crucial role in determining just where that might have been."

One such mummy of a teenaged girl with blond hair and blue yes, found in a cave, has become quite a tourist attraction in Beijing. She has been nicknamed "The Lady of Tarim" and she is on display to throngs of museum visitors in the Chinese capital.

Apparently she was a princess or a priestess of some kind over 3,000 years ago, for she was buried in fine embroidered garments of wool and leather, along with beautiful jewelry, jars and ornaments of gold, silver, jade and onyx. Her remains are in such a remarkable state of preservation that the dead girl looks as if she were just sleeping.

A search of a museum reveals a young woman with an overbite, which is European in nature, and a elderly man with reddish hair. They also find woolen textiles woven into twill and tartan patterns in blue, white, and red. Similar to the Celtic tartans from Northwest Europe. Scientific reconstruction of the heads of the mummies produces a face that strongly resembles ancient Celts and Saxons.

The mummy people used the wheel long before it was known in China, and may have played a role in introducing it to Chinese civilization.

There are 3,000-year-old rock engravings similar to ones in Bulgaria and the Ukraine. The characters have long noses, long faces and round eyes. According to the ancient Chinese, the European nomads had red hair, bluish-green eyes and had long noses.

Close-up of a Tocharian male, and to the right is a swastika decoration found on a clay bowl recovered from the Tocharian grave sites. The swastika was part of the original Indo-European language, meaning "well being". It seems that this symbol was universally accepted as such.

it should be mentioned now that the swastika is an ancient symbol. Actually one of the oldest still around since antediluvian times.

The Oldest Known Symbol

The swastika is an ancient symbol that has been used for over 3,000 years. (That even predates the ancient Egyptian symbol, the Ankh!) Artifacts such as pottery and coins from ancient Troy show that the swastika was a commonly used symbol as far back as 1000 BCE.
During the following thousand years, the image of the swastika was used by many cultures around the world, including in China, Japan, India, and southern Europe. By the Middle Ages, the swastika was a well known, if not commonly used, symbol but was called by many different names:

China - wan
England - fylfot
Germany - Hakenkreuz
Greece - tetraskelion and gammadion
India - swastika
Though it is not known for exactly how long, Native Americans also have long used the symbol of the swastika.

swastika plate from Samarra, Iraq.
Dated to about 5000 BCE,

Samarra us about 60 miles north of Baghdad.
This sort of pottery is known to have the motiffs reduced to geometric patterning in late prehistoric times.
The outer rim seems to be a reversal of the inner swastika The birds and the fish seem go along with the iinner swastika direction. Kind of like the milky way. The "3" can mean fire in alchemy as well as being the symbol for certain high and thin clouds....

one great example of the Gods /neanderthals arriving someplace with their servant class homo-sapiens is Ireland.
here we see the native population take note of the new arrivals and their incredible traits, so incredible they were incorporated into myth and legend.


The stories of the female Basque God Mari and the Gaelic Irish tales of the Tuatha da Danann. The Tuatha tales describe powerful gods with orange or blonde hair and other unusual attributes.

Mari - the neolithic Goddess of Old Europe and the primary deity in Basque mythology - has many manifestations, including "as a tree that looks like a woman or a tree emitting flames", "a white cloud or rainbow, or a ball of fire in the air", a "sickle of fire, as which she appears crossing the sky" and "seen enveloped in fire, lying down horizontally, moving through the air".

The records from ancient Ireland describe a whole series of invasions. The "Lebor Gabala Erren" ("The Book of the Taking of Ireland"), compiled during the 12th century A.D. describes the coming of the mysterious Tuatha de' Danann or Tribe of Danu. They were apparently tall, blond or red-haired strangers, "expert in the arts of pagan cunning", who supposedly interbred with the locals, while teaching them many kinds of useful skills.

The Lebor Gabala records their dramatic entrance to Ireland as follows:
"In this wise they came, in dark clouds from northern islands of the world. They landed on the mountains of Conmaicne Rein in Connachta, and they brought a darkness over the sun for three days and three nights. Gods were their men of arts, and non-gods their husbandmen."

These sort of stories are why I dont but into the alien theory. I say they paint the picture of remnants of an advanced civilization seeding earth after their demise.

Ancient Civilization of a Red Haired Race Found in Peru
Chaucilla, Peru

Peru has MANY red headed Nordic type mummies. Paracas has many, Nevado Ampato near Machu Picchu, The cemetery of Chaucilla, near Nazca, has dozens of ancient red-haired mummies. There was a MAJOR effort in South America to reboot civilization when the Gods/ neanderthals had more technology at their disposal, were in better shape physically as well as had better numbers to their population. IMO the change to climate made their continued existence less viable as time passed and they needed a support civilization to restart their own in their civilization. After the cro-magnon experiment failed they just tried to build up homo-sapiens for an unknown reason.

Here is a good resource. I will not post any more text on this since I suspect people arent really reading any of this and are instead just jumping from picture to
at this point I think this is more for my own satisfaction.....

Yuya, Egyptian nobleman from 1400 BC, father of Tiy, the wife of Pharaoh Amenhotep III. Yuya's blond hair and Nordic facial structure have been well preserved by the embalming process; Alongside, his equally blond haired wife, Thuya, great grandmother of Tutankhamen

edit on 25-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 12:19 PM
So the blast furnaces were found in Ohio, USA? If so, your theory is dead in the water then because Neanderthals never made it to America!
BTW, blonde hair is NOT red hair! DNA tests on Tutankamun and other related Pharoes show them to be of the Caucasian race so the blonde hair is not really supprising...However, it was a big shock to those that favoured the "black Pharoe" theory!

edit on 25-1-2013 by ProfessorAlfB because: Spelling

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