Neanderthals were more advanced than us. THEY were one of the megalithic cultures of the remote past

So I was looking at THIS thread about bringing back Neanderthals when I came to the conclusion that they HAD to be superior, from a racist eugenics point of view....I know. But hear me out...

Neanderthals had larger brains. Their brains were the same size when infants as human infants but were much larger as adults than homo- sapiens.

Larger brains almost always correlate to larger intellects and capacity for learning. It has already been proven that they used the same tools as primitive humans. Possibly having taught US how to use and make them!

They probably had language some experts say and would probably have had similar vocal chords and language centers in the brain as us.

They were MUCH stronger than us. Particularly in the arms and hands. They were built more robustly. They could take more damage and endure harsher conditions due to their constitution.

That leads me to believe they probably lived longer life spans. That they were more adaptable and that they had a better chance of surviving than us.

Geneticists confirm that the human genetic base bottle necked at one point during the last glacial period. WE lost most of our population and were reduced to a few thousand. That is a proven fact.

Could it be possible that we survived an extinction level event that killed off the Neanderthal population which was the more advanced form of sentient life on earth at the time? It is entirely possible for a biological threat to kill off our entire species and leave only primates to take our place. I propose a similar scenario. Not necessarily a viral threat that killed off the Neanderthals, but a combination of factors. Perhaps they were reduced to what they UNDERSTOOD to be a insufficiently diverse population to survive, so they chose to interbreed with the slightly inferior homo sapiens.

We assume them to be primitive idiots. Really science has had to reconcile with new facts we have been discovering about them that paint an entirely different picture. They were capable of art, tool making, probably had language and also music. Everything we attribute to modern humans may have come from them. OR they may have shared with us in an act of conformity.

Imagine for a second that our advanced civilization is destroyed by a prolonged end times scenario. All our advanced tools and equipment are slowly degraded and being irreplaceable, are eventually lost. Our advanced knowledge is only transmitted effectively into the first generation after the event and less so as time progresses under the circumstances of harsh primal life forcing an oral tradition light on baggage.

Imagine then the immediate survivors of the event taking refuge with the tribal cultures around the world that can more easily adapt to harsh conditions having endured them naturally. A city boy would eat only if he learned the skills of a "savage". This change in the dynamic of traits for survival would change the supremacy of the cultural influences. An advanced culture rich in advanced knowledge would not be appreciated as much as the primitive culture rich in survival skills.

In the end a degradation of the advanced culture would take place until the descendants of the advanced culture were not just genetically integrated with the inferior group but socially as well. Perhaps a compromise would have happened and the technologically advanced culture would not just get "dumber" but the primitive culture would also get "smarter".

I argue that this is what happened in part with Neanderthals. They may have been one of the mythological advanced cultures always spoken of in oral traditions. There is always a reference in mythology to a first man, or several creations of man which we form only the last of in the series. ALWAYS the earlier versions are punished for being TOO MUCH like the gods. They had terrible qualities that led to their demise. They were always accredited with being very great in something or the other, seeing as the gods do, doing as the gods do, ect...

IMO these earlier versions of man are unmistakably our proto-man ancestors. Perhaps some have eluded our shovel, but considering that every couple of years we discover a new branch on the human genetic tree long dead, I would say it is entirely possible that one such branch or series of branches are not limited to primates or derivations there of, whether we have found them yet or not.

The megalithic structures are colossal by our standards, constitution and intelligence without advanced tools. Perhaps not so much so for a super strong, super smart and advanced humanoid we mistakenly make wax sculptures of in loin cloths and with dumb expressions on their faces.

I would like to see the state we are living in if our civilization collapses and remains so for even a few decades.

Perhaps the technologically advanced civilizations we are starting to come to terms with consisted in part of Neanderthals we know to have existed LONG before our version of man came along.

We are pushing the dates back to almost every single structure in the known ancient world. There are those that stubbornly resist, but science is showing that almost everything has a connection to a megalithic culture on a global scale. These cultures built these structures globally and did so employing either technology or knowledge that has escaped us for its lack of accurate transmission throughout the ages.

MAYBE the supposedly "dumb and primitive" people with super strength, more resilient and more hearty bodies as well as LARGER BRAINS built them. Maybe they are the earlier "man" that was too close to the gods that preceded us....

Maybe...

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


Maybe they had bigger brains and were a lot stronger. So what?

Our women are WAY better looking than theirs

Interesting.

I have nothing else relevant to add, but have you ever read anything about neanderthals by Stan Gooch? Specifically 'Cities of Dreams'. He has something similar to say about the neanderthals.

reply to post by CrimsonMoon


They just look slightly different than us by our reconstructions. Slightly rounder faces and bigger heads....

I would say some people who like certain cultural looks would argue they are actually very attractive.

Remember that our perception of "beautiful" has changed periodically. We once LOVED big girls and skinny girls were ugly.....ever notice all that Victorian art depicting big girls around flowers and such....yeah..

Neanderthals are physically similar to us. Just inside they are stronger, faster and smarter....IMO....

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


OK buddy! if we are out having a beer, and we get chatting to a human woman and a neanderthal woman Ill be sure to remind you of that

Maybe by them integrating into our society is where our myths came from...

They were in Europe first maybe they slayed all the dragons before we came here.

Interesting theory.

Pred...

They died out some 40kya and megaliths didn't appear until 34 thousand years later....30 if we include Gobekli Tepe.

reply to post by Kandinsky


But how sure can we be of those dates?

Up until, well i was going to say a decade ago but even now people deny the water erosion on the Egyptian structures suggesting a dense jungle environment like South America.

There are south American structures that are in Oral tradition described as having preexisted the cultures that we say built them.

What about the submerged structures like the one off Japan that we have yet to date?
The ones under water around Malta and great britain...ect.

We have to be conservative with our faith in our ability accurately date ancient structures, NOT with our open mindedness to theories of the possible dates being much farther back into antiquity.

I think its a possibility.

It always amazes me how scientists can make such broad and accepted statements based on a few burial finds.
If Im not mistaken they say neanderthals died out 40K years ago based on not finding any remains that date later than this, what if neanderthals started burning corpses or pulverising them or god knows what, maybe bigfoot are neanderthal descendants.

Science is always right until the next discovery or theory comes along and proves it was completely false.

Interesting read S&F

hmm reading the op a thought struck me. are what we are calling Neanderthals possibly what were referred to as Nephilim? or maybe even the offspring of man and Nephilim? those refered to as "the mighty men who were of old, men of renown."

Genesis 6:4
"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown."

Numbers 13:33
"There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight."

reply to post by generik


Yeah man, that is what I am saying.

I think they are....MIGHTY men of old (strong). Men of RENOWN (smart).

Every culture has a reference to an ancient form of man that surpassed them in almost everything and sometimes brought the wrath of God or the gods down on them because they were too similar to them/ him.....

Neanderthals had super strength and larger brains compared to us....

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


What you say makes a hell of a lot of sense zed.

The proven facts are hard to argue with, like 'modern humans' being reduced to a mere handful shortly after the last major ice age finished. It's also a proven fact that the ice age finished due to a massive cometary bombardment of Earth approx 13,000 - 15,000 years ago, the proof is in the sedimentary layers all around the planet, multiple and large impacts destroyed much of the life here, and melted the ice over a relatively short period of time, this caused massive floods and tsunamis, quakes and all that jazz, which killed off large segments of life here, animal and vegetable.

These events were followed by a secondary 'mini ice age' called 'the younger dryas', lasting about 1,500 years...this would have taken many of the displaced survivors, leaving us with a limited gene pool, and maybe virtually wiping out neanderthals and their culture.

This would have pretty much forced survivors of both of human and neanderthals to interbreed to ensure survival of a hybrid species...us.

Today, science has shown conclusively, that most humans alive right now, have between 3% and 5% NEANDERTHAL DNA...so really, neither early humans OR neanderthals survived as they were originally, instead we pulled our genetic resources so we could both survive as a hybridized species of both.

Interesting thread, S&F.

Just curious, where did you get your information? By all physical evidence, Neanderthals had a smaller brain cavity thus a smaller brain. They died out before the time of the megalithic constructions we have found "to this point in time". Not to say they were not builders, we know they were artists (cave paintings).

There is still debate and dispute as to whether modern man carries Neanderthal genes. It is possible that the two species intermingled and bred but there is something like...mmm...zero evidence of that. Cro-magnon's were the superior species and that is a huge part of why the neanderthal died out. If we look at all the species on a timeline, there were actually bigger and stronger versions...Homo Heilderbergensis for instance...that was one big and tough mofo...but he did not have the brain power to overcome so he died out.

If we are going to agree with natural selection, the most advanced and evolved species remains...and that would be Homo Sapien sapien (kinda stupid, I know). They say our next step of evolution will be homo superior but I don't see that happening. Natural selection has been circumvented by technology. We no longer adapt to our environment, we adapt the environment to suit us. That is actually pretty damned amazing.

I sometimes wish we would allow natural selection to take place. I wish we would let the stupid people kill themselves off and remove them from the gene pool. We need to start a campaign to go into every public restroom and remove the sticker from the continuous feed cloth hand towels that reads "do not hang from towel by neck"...I say we let the stupid people do that if they so choose to do so...gotta get rid of stupid somehow.

ETA:

Here is a very slick little website from the Smithsonian. I find it very useful and hope you all enjoy it as well.

ETA second comment...

At this point in time (though the site is less than 10% excavated) Gobekli-Tepe is 12,000 years old...which still makes it the oldest megalithic structures we have discovered to this point. Not to say as they unearth more the timeline will be pushed back...but there is nothing at this point reaching back 20 to 30 thousand years....that is false info.

Human timeline

reply to post by Jeremiah65


I read allot about proto humanoids. Well, I used to. There are many sources, but I just pulled this one off google just now.

How can we account for the fact that Neanderthals had bigger cranial capacity than Homo Sapiens but nonetheless they were eventually eliminated? Bigger cranial capacity is correlated with higher mental abilities, thus we are led into believing the Neanderthals were, on the average, smarter than us. How it is than that our ancestors managed to gradually eliminate them?

news.softpedia.com...

and to quote myself from the other thread I mentioned before people say size doesnt matter,,,

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by antonia

 

that is still up in the air. Some people argue that a dolphin is dumber than a gold fish based only brain structure. In other words a mechanical analysis of the parts....

others, psychologists and people who can accurately measure intelligence, if anyone can, say intelligence is directly related to brain size...

www.news-medical.net...

Albert Einstein had a larger part of the brain that handles mathematical skills (parietal lobe).

Scientists are currently interested in the possibility that physical differences in brain structure could determine different abilities. One part of the operculum called Broca's area plays an important role in speech production. To compensate, the inferior parietal lobe was 15 percent wider than normal. The inferior parietal region is responsible for mathematical thought, visuospatial cognition, and imagery of movement.

[ http:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Albert_Einstein's_brain ]

Also, natural selection doesnt always choose the best and brightest by logical standards. Maybe the air thinned and less oxygen favored the smaller puny version of us because he had smaller, more primitive lungs and could adapt to lesser quality air, or less oxygenated air...

sometimes it is as simple as skin color or fur that gives your species an advantage as the environment changes.

I sometimes wish we would allow natural selection to take place. I wish we would let the stupid people kill themselves off and remove them from the gene pool. We need to start a campaign to go into every public restroom and remove the sticker from the continuous feed cloth hand towels that reads "do not hang from towel by neck"...I say we let the stupid people do that if they so choose to do so...gotta get rid of stupid somehow.

LOL....you had me the towel rack thing......too true. It is not natural to keep everyone against their will....YOLO all you want...nature intended some of us to YOLO too hard......

bravo

just thought I would include these pictures showing known and actual size differences in the genealogical branches of humanity and primates as well as "supposed" specimens found throughout history."








Gigantopithecus

Genesis 6:4

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

I'm not sure neanderthal was smarter than us . I do have a suspicion that he would have superior problem solving skills due his having to rely more on his own wits , not to mention most likely having a much better idea of what a problem actually is .

So I'm a little worried that even if Oog is stupider than we are , he still might be able to figure out a way to make us look like complete idiots .

reply to post by thudpuddy


yeah I do agree

levels of intelligence are relative to the problems it is being measured by.

I wanted to include this last picture from the temple of the Sun in Palenque.

It has four sizes of people in a depiction of offerings being given.

The sizes are supposed to correlate the importance of each character, like in Egypt when a smaller person is on the lap of a larger person that is not his/ her parent. Like a pharaoh and a God....ect

what if that is NOT the case. What if these are literal depictions of relative size?



In this picture you have 4 sizes of people.

I now want to suggest that at one point in time or at several that different branches of humanity coexisted as we know Neanderthal, homo-sapiens, and Cro-magnon did. Like wise others branches before them coexisted, some we may not even know of due to their limited populations and geografical locations.

I think that our attempt to make the progression of evolution linear is erroneous.

I think that big and smart could have bred with small and dumb to have produced medium sized hominids with relative intelligence compared to both. Then Large and smart with medium and smart to produce slightly bigger then medium and much smarter than both hominids. Then maybe small and dumb with smaller and dumber to produce even smaller and dumber sized hominids. ECT.....

THE POINT IS they all could have mixed and transferred different traits in a non linear and not so neat progression of size and ability.

I dont even really believe in classifications of this or that species of man. I would say populations of different characteristics mixed and produced infinite off shoots, with only a couple gaining supremacy over others and so reproducing extensively enough for us to find remains or last up to today (us).

I think ancient people knew of them and for some reason attributed "divine" status to the larger more "throwback" type people making them rulers or religious figures. Maybe they were SMARTER STRONGER and LIVED LONGER, I dont know....

Goliath, kings in the bible, Caesars, pharaohs, ect. ALL were physically different than the people they ruled. TALL and SMART. Divine they say.....

I say ancient people thought the tall, smart and strong people were related somehow to the Gods and powerful people of old. The ones who came from the advanced civilizations that taught US everything we know and that we say did such. The Gods.....

Maximus Thrax Caesar of Rome 235-238 AD was 8´6 tall.
Goliath, in the bible, 1sam 17:4 was 10´6 in 110BC
King of bashan,in the bible, deut 3:11 was 12 FOOT tall in 1400 BC

Deuteronomy 3:11

King Og of Bashan was the last survivor of the giant Rephaites. His bed was made of iron and was more than thirteen feet long and six feet wide. It can still be seen in the Ammonite city of Rabbah.

In addition to possibly higher intelligence, Neanderthals, as a result of their larger brains, had heightened psychic abilities, much like an animal's sixth sense.

Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal interbred, producing a hybrid human.

Now, what happens with the first generation of hybrid plants? They are bigger, stronger, more robust, and grow with more vigour.

This is my guess about what happened. This first generation of hybrid humans had increased size, strength, intellect, and heightened psychic ability. They naturally became leaders of tribes and, in time, kings. Eventually they migrated south into Mesopotamia, Egypt, India, China and became the seeds that sprouted the early civilizations.

Also, they inherited the genes from Neanderthal that gave red hair and blue/green eyes. That's why so many royal families have a history of these traits, going back thousands of years. It also explains why they often intermarried within their own families; to preserve these traits.

reply to post by TheComte


red hair is HUGE. Very important.

it has been documented almost every where on earth of finding red haired tall skeletal remains....or stories of red haired giants...

Legends of Giants and the Native Americans
Giants appear in many other legends, including those of people indigenous to what is now the United States (more often known as Native Americans).

Nations that inhabited the Northeastern and Southwestern parts of the country often spoke of a race of "red haired" giants. One of these legends includes that of the Paiute tribe that was predominant in the southwest area of Arizona, Nevada, and Utah. The legend says the giants (also known as “Si-Te-Cah”) existed before the tribe migrated there thousands of years ago. Si-Te-Cah means "tule eaters" which is a plant that grows underwater. These giants were said to be twelve feet in stature with flaming bright red hair, and are generally described as menacing.

kentuckyslone.hubpages.com...


there are so many references all over the planet I dont even know where to begin....


What if they are just throwbacks or remnants of other branches of humanities genetic family tree?

We know that size and relative intelligence can be VASTLY different between primates.....we know it has been so for our supposed linear progression of evolution. What if we just widen the spectrum to include those specimens that time has destroyed or that we have yet to find.

What if our ability of thought and reason, (intelligence) is not anchored to a linear progression as well? what if it might have been greater at one point and have lessened since?