Scientist seeks surrogate mother for Neanderthal baby

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posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:15 PM
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There're differences in hte brain between Neanderthal and Homosapien. Of that I've seen, modern humans have larger olfactory systems and frontal lobes. This, in principal, assisted social and language development. However, since we don't know exactly what happened in the brains, we can only guess based on the imprints on the skull from the brain. This means it's questionable.

See here:
www.sciencedaily.com -
Brains of Neanderthals and Modern Humans Developed Differently...


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The development of cognitive abilities during individual growth is linked to the maturation of the underlying wiring pattern of the brain; around the time of birth, the neural circuitry is sparse in humans, and clinical studies have linked even subtle alterations in early brain development to changes in the neural wiring patterns that affect behaviour and cognition. The connections between diverse brain regions that are established during this period in modern humans are important for higher-order social, emotional, and communication functions. It is therefore unlikely that Neanderthals saw the world as we do.

The new study shows that modern humans have a unique pattern of brain development after birth, which separates us from our closest relatives, the Neanderthals. This uniquely modern human pattern of early brain development is particularly interesting in light of the recent breakthroughs in the Neanderthal genome project. A comparison of Neanderthal and modern human genomes revealed several regions with strong evidence for positive selection within Homo sapiens, i.e. the selection occurred after the split between modern humans and Neanderthals. Three among these are likely to be critical for brain development, as they affect mental and cognitive development.
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www.livescience.com - Bulging Brain Structures Separate Us from Neanderthals...

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Compared with Neanderthals, modern humans also possess larger temporal lobes, an area near the base of the brain. "Neuroscientists relate temporal lobes with language functions, long-term memory, theory of mind [the ability to consider the perspective of others], and also emotions," Bastir said.

We also have a relatively wider orbitofrontal cortex than Neanderthals, a part of the brain immediately above the eyes. "The effects of the wider orbitofrontal cortex are difficult to evaluate," Bastir said. The area is linked with decision-making.
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edit on 21-1-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:18 PM
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a while ago i remember seeing a show on the history and evolution of man kind. and someone mentioned that if a baby neanderthal were to be born in today's time. it would speak,write, and act like any other modern human baby.

there would be no difference mentally. aside of course from the obvious physical differences.

but imagine.

wouldn't that baby want to breed?...what would happen if he or she would mate with another human?...we could literally have a whole new species branch off again in human history, maybe far more superior to our own?



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by zedVSzardoz
 


Well thats the Nat Geo version of them

Check out what this dude thinks



This was the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw this thread. No one knows for sure what Neanderthals really looked like or how they would fit into modern society. The bigger brain does not mean that are more intelligent.
I would like to see this done simply for the scientific knowledge it would provide. But I would be fully prepared to put the "baby" in a zoo instead of a kindergarten class.
edit on 1/21/2013 by Sparky63 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:21 PM
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Imo it would take a large powerful woman to handle such a strong fast growing child. I imagine the breastfeeding demand alone would take some pretty tough nipples.

Modern human babies beat us up all the time. I've suffered a few accidental headbutts, I've been kicked in the eye and had my gums stripped raw by little fingernails.

I'm afraid I'm too small to nurture a Neanderthal. Raising modern humans along side more powerful Neanderthal children could be dangerous.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by Morningglory
 


They could by instinct and physical strength be aggressive



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Klassified
On the one hand, I can see the scientific value in having a living neanderthal to study and observe. On the other hand, how heartless and cruel to bring this creature into the modern world to be treated as a freak, and a lab rat. Any woman who goes for this must be out of her mind.


Lol. money can be pretty convincing. And seriously, cruel to bring it into the world? Why? He would be looked after and prolly better health care then most in America. But will it be deemed a creature or will it have rights to live and not be terminated prematurely once they answer their questions. that would be cruel. I hope they do it just because they can.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by buddha
In the far past some race built the pyramids and many other things.
Neanderthal may have been that race.

if so and we bring them back.
they will slowly take over.
as WE are to stupid to work together.


They pyramids were built by ancient Egyptians who were HomoSapien just as we are

Being "ancient" doesn't make them a different race



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by 0mage
the volunteer whoever she may be should find out if she'll be able to raise the child as her own with minimal interference from the lab.

we already have ppl in the world that look like neanderthals so it might not be that strange depending on how much closer it is to humanlike than neanderthal like.

kids at public schools can be very cruel. the guy would have a really tough life. who knows how it would end. interesting nonetheless that these scientists are even being allowed to do something like this.


If it's for a scientific study as described, she would not leave with the child, only carry it to term, then she no longer has any part in it. It won't be attending public school and living in a house with a white picket fence raised by Billy-Bob and Darlene.

It wouldn't even be treated as "human", just a lab experiment or "raised" by the guy who creates it. The egg and sperm both would be provided by the lab, not the woman. The only thing being used is her womb because it is too difficult to duplicate the womb for the fetus to develop.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by Morningglory

Originally posted by chrome413
I do have a question for people on here who have been posting that the Neanderthal was more intelligent than humans. How do you know?


We simply don't know enough to say either way. Evidence shows they were more like us than not. Imo their environment/shorter lifespan must have hindered their ability to advance to a higher level.

Animals can depend on instinct but it takes intelligence for humans to survive. It's possible Neanderthal's intelligence was a bit different but that doesn't mean it was inferior.


Exactly! The best answer yet! I knew the answer before posting, but wondered how many folks could actually admit there are things in this world that are unknown. Now if we can just get this across to everyone spouting drivel like it is fact then we may be on to something. You get a star!

People, please listen to me. There is no shame in not knowing something. There is no shame in admitting to not knowing something. I think if people could grasp this then these message threads would go much more smoothly and be easier to follow and be more factually reliable. Like ATS says- deny ignorance, right?



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:44 PM
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Chances are, if they ever actually do this, we'll never know about it and they won't use a human woman as the incubator. They can use a simian female just as easily and with much less hassle. A gorilla or orangutan would be much less hassle for them and that's what they would most likely do.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by violet
 
I imagine they were products of their environment. Aggression/dominance is vital to survival but submissiveness is just as important when living within a group.

Think alpha male/female. Not everyone is suited to be the pack leader. Neanderthal was probably as diverse in nature as modern humans. That diversity probably served them well. The most aggressive hunted/defended/bred the less aggressive most likely played a vital role as well.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by HopSkipJump
Chances are, if they ever actually do this, we'll never know about it and they won't use a human woman as the incubator. They can use a simian female just as easily and with much less hassle. A gorilla or orangutan would be much less hassle for them and that's what they would most likely do.


They could have tried this already for all we know and it hasn't worked, so the next logical leap would be to use a Human womb.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:54 PM
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Science just crossed the line.....



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 01:23 PM
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I kind of have mixed feelings about this. Not really sure where I stand at the moment. With that being said, if they do choose to do this, I am sure that nutcase Octo-Mom would be willing to help make their wish come true. ~$heopleNation



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 01:25 PM
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Should extinct things be brought back?

That's what this is about.

It's not about whether there're any differences, as it's obvious there're. In the last several posts I've made here I linked to articles that went over some of the differences.

Here's a summary:
1) Neanderthals likely matured more rapidly in childhood; 9 y/o w/ development like a modern 12 y/o.
2) Brain development is markedly different early on; in modern humans changes in this are significant
3) Olfactory and temporal lobes (including orbitofrontal cortex) are larger in modern humans
4) Neanderthal had much higher amounts of steroids and much stronger arms/hands. This includes a different spread in their fingers which gave them better grip. They had larger lungs.
5) Neanderthal ate an essentially all meat diet; did this change their genes?
6) Shorter necks likely meant a higher-pitched voice (like primates but not that high-pitched). This indicates they might sound more like modern females. They would have full range of speech.

Because sooner or later we'll have the technology to bring back mammoths, sabertooths, etc. And some of it will have to come from dna reconstructions which is kind of shady. I seriously doubt we'll ever bring back dinosaurs unless we get heavily into reconstructing their dna.
edit on 21-1-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by skitzspiricy

Originally posted by HopSkipJump
Chances are, if they ever actually do this, we'll never know about it and they won't use a human woman as the incubator. They can use a simian female just as easily and with much less hassle. A gorilla or orangutan would be much less hassle for them and that's what they would most likely do.


They could have tried this already for all we know and it hasn't worked, so the next logical leap would be to use a Human womb.


good point, they very well may have



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by Morningglory
It takes a sharp mind to successfully survive in the wilderness.

If modern "civilized" humans were transported back to Neanderthal's time most would be dead within the first month. We'd go extinct without their intervention. We could try to learn but our frail modern bodies might not hold up in such a harsh environment. I'm pretty sure Neanderthal would think we're stupid and weak.

Environmental stresses are known to cause animal extinctions. Those animals weren't dumb they just couldn't adapt/compete.

After living in rural southern CO I've discovered modern humans aren't all they think they are. Try outsmarting any animal be it the lowly rat or mountain lion. The rat would eat all your food and the lion would eat you.


We, homo sapiens, would bring along pest poison to kill the rat and fire/weapons to take out the lion. That's what we are, and why we homo sapiens are dominant, not other species or races, not because of of our tech, but rather, our gift of intelligence to overcome all odds.

The homo neanderthals became extinct, and there were many theories of it. Some scientists claimed homo sapiens lived alongside them once, but only homo sapiens remained till this day while neanderthals became extinct.

By the law of the jungles, survival of the fittest rule. They had larger or similar sized brains as us, as archeology digs had proven, BUT were far larger and stronger than us puny homo sapiens.

Yet, we were the ones who survived. No one truly knows factually today, but by the laws of the jungle, it may HAD BEEN a DESPERATE fight against the neanderthals for our ancestors to remain standing today.

What OTHER powers do they possessed, based upon their cranium structure, compared to what our ancestors had that enabled us to be alive today, as we know now, even though merely scratching on the surface of neuroscience, we mankind have better developed brain structure but only used less than 10% of it?

Would the homo neanderthals, who may had existed far longer than homo sapiens, had better awareness of their brain and physical potential and ruled for a long time, and perhaps, with such powers, they ruled irresponsibly and became extinct in the hands of our more wily ancestors?

If we re-create the homo neanderthal without fully understanding its capabilities, just as we don't even fully know our potential, what kind fo risks could the morally and ethically deficient Harvard scientist and his research fundings are doing???!!!

Best to pause for a while and think it through fully on ALL implications. This neanderthal baby proposal is no homo sapien baby, or an animal to keep in a lab cage for studies, or a robot mankind can just switch off its power to prevent and incidents or accidents.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 01:55 PM
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I thought the Kardasians already had babies



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by jonnywhite

Should extinct things be brought back?

Because sooner or later we'll have the technology to bring back mammoths, sabertooths, etc. And some of it will have to come from dna reconstructions which is kind of shady.
That's a great question. We need to be careful what we wish for.

The possibility of creating shady reconstructions is terrifying.

Even if we get the technology right what impact would our artificial modern environment have on them?

I've seen dogs removed from their natural state wearing coats/shoes chasing their tail obsessively only stopping long enough to eat their own poop. People's good intentions have driven once noble creatures quite insane. Imo some are doing the same thing with their children.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 02:00 PM
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This demonstrates what Neanderthal might have sounded like:
It's not the deep rumbling voice people might think it's.

More like a she-man that can make a loud sound (big chest and lungs). Although it's important to realize that they were fully capable of reproducing speech of a modern human, assuming they had comprehension. Although the evidence suggests the language center of the brain was smaller.

It's my opinion that they would be very intelligent hunters. Considering that they didn't use bows and instead used heavy spears that were usually not thrown, they had to get close to their prey. Additionally, their diet was 99% meat so they had lots of practice. They would likely not be faster runners. Evidence shows their heel is adapted to walking more than running versus modern man.

Here:
phys.org - Early humans won at running; Neandertals won at walking...

New research has compared the performance of the heels of modern-day distance runners to the heels of Neandertals and ancient Homo sapiens. The results show the Neandertals' heels were taller than those of modern humans and Homo sapiens, and more adapted to walking than running over long distances, while those of Homo sapiens were more adapted to endurance running.
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So they'd need to be sneaky and hunt slower prey.
edit on 21-1-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)





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