Why did God deceive people in the Bible?

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posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 09:55 PM
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Many Christians claim that the Koran describes Allah as a "deceiver" because of this one particular verse.

And they schemed against Jesus and God schemed against them, but God is the best schemer.


The way I see it, a bunch of nasty men schemed against Jesus, and Allah in defense of Jesus... schemed back against them and (obviously) won. Seems fair enough.

Now, Christians who still insist that Allahs scheming means he is a "deceiver".... are faced with a big problem. The Bible itself describes God as someone who deceives when the need arises.


“So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”
-1 Kings 22:23

Ah, Lord God! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.
-Jeremiah 4:10

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
-2 Thessalonians 2:11


So just why would God "deceive" and send "delusions" to people?
Did they deserve it? So then are we in agreement that the people who Allah schemed against, or as you say "deceived"... deserved it? When the Bible itself describes God as being a deceiver.... on what basis can you really accuse the God who the muslims worship... as being a deceiver?

We can see right there in the Bible that God has deceived people. If Christians can justify that, then they really shouldn't have an issue with the Koranic account.


edit on 19-1-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 10:09 PM
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Seems like a week argument to me. Being a Christian, if I wanted to take issue with the Koran that would certainly not be the way I'd go about it. It only takes a cursory glance at the muslim view of Jesus to determine that Islam and Christianity are not compatible.

There are many accounts of "God" partaking in all sorts of reprehensible behaviors in the old testament, deception being the least of them.
edit on 19-1-2013 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 



Seems like a week argument to me. Being a Christian, if I wanted to take issue with the Koran that would certainly not be the way I'd go about it.


This was actually a response I had written for another user who was claiming Allah is "The deceiver" in another thread. I felt this subject deserved a thread of its own.


Also, this thread is directed towards anybody else who believes the popular canard that Allah is "the deceiver".

edit on 19-1-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



2nd Thessalonians 2
5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Just wanted to post the whole verse for context. God only send delusions to people as a punishment. If one continues to live there they will find no comfort. We all have the ability to wake up and seek him. Just most never really do.

But I don't consider Allah the Deceiver since we have only one God. I might not agree with the Koran but there is only one God so yes we must believe in the same one. Your path to God does not have to be mine, Abraham and Moses took a much better path than me. If we both come to the one universal truth that we are here to love each other than we are brothers.

Anyone who is not here to love everyone else hasn't been paying any attention.
edit on 19-1-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 




Just wanted to post the whole verse for context. God only send delusions to people as a punishment. If one continues to live there they will find no comfort. We all have the ability to wake up and seek him. Just most never really do.


Exactly. I agree with that. God sends delusions as a punishment.

Now are Christian fundamentalists who call Allah "The Deciever" willing to listen to the muslims explanation that Allah schemed against those schemed against Jesus?

Or that Allah only "deceived" those who were trying to harm Jesus?



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 10:39 PM
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A book written by various people over the years tends to be flawed.



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 10:59 PM
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Probably because he doesn’t exist? Just a thought..



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 11:31 PM
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Maybe because it would be boring if he wasn't? Deities almost always exhibit traits that you see in humans; or vice versa. God is apparently perfect --- yet he's also jealous, wrathful, unrelenting, utterly intolerant, & expects more than can be reasonably expected.

I honestly doubt that any god who created people would create hell as the alternative afterlife. Biblically speaking, why did God allow his favorite angel to rebel against him & still exist? Why did he allow a fallen angel into the garden of Eden? Why play this cat & mouse game with Lucifer, as if he doesn't have the power to terminate him?

If anything this shows proof that God is bored. So he created humans after planning out this grand dilemma, the final showdown between good and evil..... As if he even needed to in the first place.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 

Lets look at 1 Kings 22:22.

“And the Lord said to him, ‘How?’ And he said, ‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ Then He said, ‘You are to entice him and also prevail. Go and do so.'"

The issue here is that King Ahab, pegan king, relied on his false prophets. At the same time he would perscute the prophets of the Lord. The Lord already know that Ahab had it in his heart to make war. The Lord allowed the deceiving spirit (many think this is Satan or some other demon) to do what came natural to it. This deceiving spirit influenced Ahab's prophets to give him a false outcome. So, in essence, the Lord permitted the action as a judgement against the evils Ahab committed against the prophets of God.
Jeremiah 4:10

Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; though the sword reacheth to the soul.

This is another example of Isreal following false prophets. God had warned Isreal to turn from its wicked ways. Once again, they refused to heed the word of the Lord. Isreal saught insight from false prophets and continued in there ways. As a judgement, God allowed Isreal to be looted by an invading army, then complained that God did not provide peace and prosperity. It was not God who lied to them, but the false prophets once again.

2 Thess. 2:8-12, “And then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.”

This passage speaks of the arrival of the antichrist. Verse 10 speaks of those who rejected the truth of God. Verse 11 and 12 explains why God sent this influence. In other words, if you want to be wicked and believe the lies, then go ahead and believe the lies and face the consequences. In each of these examples, God is one of judgement. You can't cross the will of God and expect a pass. We can be justified through the blood and sacrifice of Jesus Christ and be saved from God's judgement. We must accept that gift, it wont be forced upon us.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by Siberbat
 


Well, I know God has His reasons to do whatever He does.
There was no need to explain the context of those verses. This thread was specifically aimed at Christians calling Allah "the deceiver".... when the bible itself shows that God has deceived people. Clearly such Christians don't seem to know their own bibles too well.

So....people living in glass houses should know what not to do.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Here's the question you have to ask yourself, Sk0rpi0n.

Did God allow a deceiving spirit to deceive Muhammad in order to erase the most important aspect of the Bible?

That Jesus Christ came to earth in order to die in order to pave the way to Heaven so that all of us would be able to live with God for eternity?

If so, then it wasn't Allah who really gave Muhammad his visions.

Something to consider.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 



Did God allow a deceiving spirit to deceive Muhammad in order to erase the most important aspect of the Bible?


In that case.... this matter is between Mohammad and God.
Christians need to stay out of this.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



“So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”
-1 Kings 22:23


He allowed them to be decieved by a spirit.


Ah, Lord God! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.
-Jeremiah 4:10


Not about him decieving Judah. Judah had been worshipping idols again, and committing fornication and adultery and all manner of debauchery. This was an instance where they thought they could do whatever they want and sin without repercussion because they were "the chosen people". God promised them peace if they would return to his statues, but they didn't. False prophets arose to decieve the nation and the people believed them. He brought them inner turmoil. This was an allusion to the future coming of Christ who would bring the sword of truth to cleave the wicked from the righteous which was the split between those who would follow him and those who wanted him dead.


And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
-2 Thessalonians 2:11


This is where the great falling away begins, which we're experiencing now as people turn towards atheism and other vices, so that they can justify the things they do. The Son of Perdition cannot be revealed unless the falling away occurs.

2 Thess 2:9-10

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

It was a working of Satan, not God. They refuse the truth so God will allow them to perish. The Delusion is that he allows them to believe they are right to follow the Son of Perdition, for they have already refused the truth. He seals the deal. It's Satan's deception, God just allows it to happen so that the end will come. Perdition means "lawless", so the man of sin is lawless and in regards to that law, it's he laws Christ set down before he left. This lawless one disobeys Christs laws, so obviously he will claim to believe in Jesus. Enter, the muslim Mahdi and his Sharia.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

Like I said

"I know God has His reasons to do whatever He does.
There was no need to explain the context of those verses. This thread was specifically aimed at Christians calling Allah "the deceiver".... when the bible itself shows that God has deceived people."

Like the Koran says....

and Allah sends astray (thereby) whom He wills and guides whom He wills.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:37 AM
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If the god of the bible lied and deceived then wouldn't that also mean your god lied and deceived? They're both the same god, right?



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Are you talking to me?



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Yes. It seems like to me that if you're arguing against the god of the bible then you are arguing against your own god, because they are both the same.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Like I said earlier...


The way I see it, a bunch of nasty men schemed against Jesus, and Allah in defense of Jesus... schemed back against them and (obviously) won. Seems fair enough.

Now, Christians who still insist that Allahs scheming means he is a "deceiver".... are faced with a big problem. The Bible itself describes God as someone who deceives when the need arises


Its something Christians need to deal with.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


So you agree that Allah is a deceiver? Why would he need to deceive anything? He's all powerful, I'm sure he has no need to deceive, unless he's not all-powerful.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




So you agree that Allah is a deceiver?


No.

God simply out-deceived / out-schemed those who plotted / schemed against the messiah.

I know Christians find this offensive...because they would rather have the messiah tortured and nailed to a cross. Thats who they are. Islam teaches he was saved.

So, whats your take? Do you believe its right for an innocent man to be killed?





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