Patriots don't secede, page 23

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

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you couldn't be any more deluded.

There isn't that much freedom to defend because the ptb took most of it away already

laws restrict freedom, they don't take it away.

laws are much easier to make go away than freedom and that's a fact.

oooomy, you keep believin' it and when you're done swirling above the drain, don't be surprised if you land in the sewers.

i'm sure a few patriots will be there too, then maybe, you'll discover the truth.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by frazzle

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yes and no.
we were discussing corporations, not a monarchy.

yes, oppression can be seen throughout history, no argument there.

however, with regard to 'corporations and expansion' and where it all began, Sweden is the answer.

you say this ...

Gotta admit, though, they had some awesome PR going on

and i'd have to disagree.
it was ingrained in the settlers and passed on through the generations.
it was not 'intentional' like ppl try to profess.

now developing the CW, the FedRes, the CFR and a whole slew of others since WAS intentional.
that is what we should be addressing, exposing, dismantling.
but no, ppl argue over semantics

yes, it was imported but that doesn't mean we can't send it back.

i've seen the 'wake-up' happen a few different times in my life ... problem is, everyone claims to be too busy to DO anything about it.
hence, apathy.

i am a firm believer that 'slavery' never left us, it merely encompassed all, in a variety of forms, with a central 'authority' holding the whip.
until that changes, nothing will ... the decline will march on, unimpeded.

I agree that we tend to get tangled up with semantics. So let me clear up my thoughts a little by saying I see a barony as being an corporate entity, both are franchises of the rulers by whatever the style of government may be called.

Reading the antifederalist papers has probably messed up my whole outlook regarding the intent and as Governor Clinton said, a breaking up into smaller governing territories would be a reasonable and moderate thing to do (its quoted a page or two back.) BTW, Patrick Henry was one of the most outspoken delegates about what was intended and the prophetic nature of his and other's writings is amazing.

I don't think people would be too busy if they just knew what THE FIRST STEP should be and what they were actually trying to accomplish. Sometimes it seems there are no two people who want the same thing.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

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oh please, the origin of the word is not equal to the action of the business model.
i thought you said you went to college ?

geeeeez, i thought we were having a discussion not a brow beating.

besides, what do particulars of the 'isms' have to do with secession or patriots anyway ?

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

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oh please, the origin of the word is not equal to the action of the business model.
i thought you said you went to college ?

geeeeez, i thought we were having a discussion not a brow beating.

besides, what do particulars of the 'isms' have to do with secession or patriots anyway ?

I apologise if I offended you, as I am not here to insult anyone intentionally, but it does get old when americans keep blaming socialism for everything and europeans keep blaming capitalism for everything. I have lived on both continents therefore I should know and do know.

The ptb are playing us like a fiddle, pitting one side against the other. The actual system in place everywhere is state capitalism. The state acting as a for profit enterprise on behalf of the private central banking cartel. Europeans have the ECB, usa has the Federal Reserve, etc. Private central banking enables state capitalism.

Perhaps only hardcore communist nations had public central banks, but the statism was so great that the people who were supposedly represented were bound to limitless restrictions and a regimented life. Sure everyone had a roof over their head, sometimes a car, education, health insurance, etc...but at what cost?

There is no perfect system on this planet!

reply to post by AfterInfinity

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i believe you are responding to the wrong poster.
i never said any such thing ...

"It wasn't useful anyway" you say. "It was dead weight."

governments (any of them) sharing resources isn't ever gonna happen on this planet ... they aren't designed to do so.
and a OWG isn't gonna achieve it either.

this thread isn't about corporatism vs capitalism but you folks need to wake up and realize that corporatism thrives in EVERY society ... regardless the economic/societal structure.
that's the problem that sooooo many refuse to see.

you folks insist that it CAN work ... if we just change the 'societal structure' ... and not only are you totally brainwashed, rather think for yourselves, you choose to buy the 'agenda of the day' and hope it comes with a discount
puhleeeeez stop falling for it.

If you are a pure red-blooded American patriot, you can only secede if the country you live in is no longer the country you were born in.

i know an awful lot of immigrants who would firmly disagree ... as do i.

or are you suggesting that all of those who emigrated here are only patriots of their birth country ??

if your threat was really directed to me ... then, back at ya.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

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You are not getting much truth out though. More like misinformation/disinformation

Your opinion. Obviously a flat out insult.I think you truly believe in what you say here, so I won't call you a disinfo agent like you just did to me. I think you just genuinely believe the lie of socialism.

For you, here is a quote from Lenin

The goal of socialism is communism.

www.brainyquote.com...

I don't know how much more direct we can get here, but it sure is proof that I do know what I am talking about and I did not post untruth or disinfo in any way.
Here also is a synopsis of what Karl Marx said about communism being the goal

Communism is a social structure and political ideology in which property is commonly controlled. Communism (written with a capital C) is a modern political movement that aims to overthrow capitalism via revolution to create a classless society where all goods are publicly owned. Karl Marx posited that communism would be the final stage in human society, which would be achieved through a proletarian revolution and only becoming possible after a socialist stage develops the productive forces, leading to a superabundance of goods and services.

topdocumentaryfilms.com...

Here is another one, presumably a Pro Marxist college textbook

Marx's theory of history is an account of the different stages of government through history. His analysis describes capitalism as the first stage followed by socialism and finally communism.

lilt.ilstu.edu...

reply to post by HopSkipJump

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Then it's a darn good thing we don't have an illegal, unconstitutional government.

Oh my. Where have you been. The illegal, unconstitutional government was formed many years ago. It's in the "government" legislation. It's right in your face.

If a state secedes, it won't be part of this nation and those who secede with it will not be patriots of this nation, they will be TRAITORS because they left the nation. What in the world is so difficult about this for people to understand??

Well, for one thing, YOU don't understand.
won't be part of this nation
will not be patriots of this nation
they left the nation
WHAT nation? It's a corporation! States are sub-corporations.
YOU are a traitor to the Republic of the united States of America. You are a patriot to the corporation known as United States Inc. You disgust me. Some of us are patriots to our nation. You are not. Learn the difference. But I doubt you will. I've watched your posts and seen the rebuttals. You lose. You have been proven to be incompetent.
Kudos to the true patriots here who know the difference between lawful government(Republic) and the unlawful government(corporation)

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

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do tell, which political system do you accuse me of being a fanatical supporter ?

i can tell you which systems i don't support.
i can tell you which economic systems work best.
and i can tell you which societal systems killed the most.

question is, which of the above do you support ?

I can entertain different political ideologies/systems without acting like a blowhard

can ya really ?
a demonstration sure would be nice.

why not ... you keep pegging capitalism as the culprit, regardless of the truth.

golf is doing just fine in Scotland, what's your point ?

Likewise the first corporation started in sweden in small scale until it came to america and thrived.

ah, not quite ... the same company that started it all is still thriving today, need a link?

the rest of this deflection is not strengthening your argument one bit.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

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Vladmir Lenin was following the communist manifesto and as such was an ardent communist. It is hardely any suprise he would label himself a socialist to hide his communist agenda. The USSR called itself "socialist" in name but most people later on comprehended it as statist communism.

Socialism can be a bridge between capitalism and communism if communism is the end goal, OR it can simply be the end goal. The end goal being a mixed economy with a PUBLIC central bank. Don't we all want a public central bank to do away with the PRIVATE federal reserve?

The competing currencies advocated by Ron Paul does not make any sense to me. We need both a private and public economy.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

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do tell, which political system do you accuse me of being a fanatical supporter ?

Free market capitalism= slavery!

i can tell you which systems i don't support.
i can tell you which economic systems work best.
and i can tell you which societal systems killed the most.

Capitalism through artificial scarcity and manufactured religious wars has killed WAY MORE people than socialism ever has. BUT how come we do NOT HEAR about the evils of capitalism? Capitalism is always so perfect by the corporate media, isn't it?

question is, which of the above do you support ?

no illuminati, mild capitalism or mild socialism

I can entertain different political ideologies/systems without acting like a blowhard

can ya really ?
a demonstration sure would be nice.

why not ... you keep pegging capitalism as the culprit, regardless of the truth.

so what? every american blames socialism, I choose to be eccentric.

Likewise the first corporation started in sweden in small scale until it came to america and thrived.

ah, not quite ... the same company that started it all is still thriving today, need a link?

Corporatism is thriving in america, not so much in europe. Buy yourself a ticket to paris and talk to the locals...

the rest of this deflection is not strengthening your argument one bit.

What deflection? I refuted everything you said and you refuse to acknowledge my points, accusing me of deflection. haha

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

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OR it can simply be the end goal.

But it isn't the end goal no matter what ill-informed and brainwashed people are telling you. That is the lie of the serpent my friend. But be that as it may, the goal of socialism and the goal of communism are one and the same, to abolish private property. Both systems advocate the redistribution of wealth to achieve their goals.

Marx's famous statement reflects that thinking.

From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.

www.brainyquote.com...

ANd everything the Intl Socialists are doing today is a manifestation of that in some level. Don't forget though, the powerful elite are certainly giving to themselves from the taxpayer's treasury.

reply to post by HopSkipJump

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Patriots don't win either
Patriots VS Ravens Final Score

Sorry had to do it. Just because I'm feeling silly today.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

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Socialism and communism differ substantially. Extremely substantially! Almost day and night!

I understand what you are getting at, but there is no redistribution of wealth "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". The interest included in the taypayers bill from the constantly accruing debt goes to the investors who bought the treasury bonds. One third of the annual budget is "wasted" to the investors. Those that have bought the most treasury bonds are banks and other very wealthy people. At some point the investors will give up on their wealth accumulation to trade it in for domination by claiming emminent domain.

The ptb don't care if we have pseudo-capitalism, pseudo-socialism or statist communism. They seem to have a vested interest in everything and have controlled everything from the beginning. You are not free in america just because you have guns. You still have to go to work, pay more and more taxes, have to listen to the morons on tv misinforming you, distracted by sports, etc. People in europe are just as free, if not more, than people in america.

America used to be great and now it isn't! Land of the free and home of the brave has turned into a cheap slogan to laugh at when people get drunk. duh!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

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Capitalism through artificial scarcity and manufactured religious wars

No, religious wars are a way for the Papacy to achieve dominance. It is the same with the Vatican as with the Caliphate.

The war on terrorism is not a religious war per se, but is waged because the war on communism supposedly ended when the Berlin Wall came down. In order for the real cuplrits, the Illuminati, the Satanists, the Rothschilds and the monied interests, to cause wars after the supposed fall of Communism was to stir up other skirmishes about the world. The Rothschilds have been doing this since they ran the couriers during the Napoleonic wars.

It would do you well to read up on the Rothschilds and their methods. It has been said that Rothschild was behind both the commissioning of the writing of the Communist Manifesto and also the Balfour Declaration. This year the Rothschilds decided to combine forces with the Rockefellers, the famous ones who financed Margaret Sanger and her Progressive eugenics, aka American Birtih Control League aka Planned Parenthood.
Socialists and Communists both condemn Capitalism, yet Socialism is a complete parasite and connot function without the wealth of Capitlaists

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

I would like to know where you stand on the Holy Wars of Jihad. Do you think corporatism is behind that? I tell you it is not, but is a Satanic redirect of the true teachings of Muhammed for the purpose of establishing a World Caliphate for Islamic dominance.

To be sure though, the corporate insurance provider AIG is an enabler of that, as it is a supplier of Sharia compliant product and used taxpayer baillout money in their failure.

The wealthy magnates have been financiers of teh Bolshevik Revolution and Hitler's Nazi Party.

Maybe secretly Rothschilds are behind the Jihadic terrorism. It wouldn't really surprise me. I have read that British Freemasonry is behind the original Muslim Brotherhood.

This is not a function of Capitalism itself but rather an abuse of Capitalism. It is more like an Oligarchy rather than true Free Enterprise.

Marxism is against all Capitalism regardless of the intent of the individual Capitaiist. Marx wrote of Adam Smith even, because Smith's ideas are opposed to centrailized communist control.

Originally posted by WaterBottle

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

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Socialism as most comprehend the term means a mixed economy; both a private sector and public sector. It also includes a welfare state.

This is because, as Marx and Lenin admitted, Socialism is but a bridge between Capitalism and Communism. Socialism feeds off Capitalism because it is parasitic.

Socialism is the workers owning the means of production.

edit on 22-1-2013 by WaterBottle because: (no reason given)

Wrong, in socialism there is private ownership of the "means of production", but is heavily regulated, taxed and controlled by government.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

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You are not telling me anything new.

Wouldn't you like redistribution of wealth from those two families?

I bet they could feed the entire global population with their stocked/hidden fiat currency in switzerland, bahamas, cayman island, lichenstein, etc undisclosed bank funds.

I agree with a lot of what you say but socialism itself is not the problem. The people who run it are!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

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but there is no redistribution of wealth "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".

Yes, there IS a redistribution of wealth. Maybe you think that statement is entirely relevated to direct labor, but then what truly is the difference, since labor is the mechanism whereby a product is made?
Take two people. One has ill health and the other healthy. THe individual who is healthy works and the individual who is not does not work. Thus in the Communist way, the labor of the worker is divided "evenly" between the two and nobody starves. This is their view of equality. And that is the definition of redistribution of wealth.

It manifests in many ways.

Take the public educational system. One family has kids and one family does not, yet both have to pay the school taxes so the one family can be educate.

How fair is that? It is taking one family's income and transferring it to another. How about familiies who pay no taxes and send their kids to public school? That is true redistribution.
Now barack wants to redistribute more of our income so he can pretend he is saving the country with Nationalized healthcare.

The whole thing is a scam. Everyone gets dragged down. And who makes off with the profit? Why the Federal Reserve does.

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