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Patriots don't secede

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posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by HopSkipJump
 


Are you mistakenly comparing a blind sheep to a patriot??? WOW!!!! Just WOW!!!


Sounds like you need to actually read the Constitution......
edit on 19-1-2013 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)


How can you support the leaders who have sold us out to the tyrannical Totalitarian One World UN Government, which is being implemented locally in almost every country? Agenda 212 is a Trojan Horse takeover globally and a threat to national sovereignty, and our leaders since Bush Sr have signed on to it.

Now since you claim to have read the Constitution many times, have you also read the Declaration of Independence and understand what it means>
www.archives.gov...

The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription:When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation



We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security



Let me just say that one more time so you hear it

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security"

Now, that being said, threats to our sovereignty and our liberty have come under various names, communism, socialism, globalism, and Agenda 21 Sustainable Development.

Secession may or may not be the solution of last resort to the growing powers of the NWO. In the meantime we have to work on the local level to stop Agenda 21 in our communitieis. It has been done in several communities.




posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by HopSkipJump
 




By saying you are a patriot, you are saying that you support and defend your country. Your country is defined by the land area contained within it and the government that regulates it.

You are not correct. Our Nation is defined by the Constitution. I swore to protect the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. That oath said nothing about boundries or presons.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by HopSkipJump
 




They set up the government we now have.

This is also not true. Our government has ignored the Constitution many times, and is currently infracted in numerous ways. Our government needs to restored to its Constitutional origins. That may not be possible with the current tribe of leftist-extremist voters, at least not by "normal" means. To avoid bloodshed, ceding is a good idea. I surely don't want those who are not Constitutionally motivated in charge of me, elected majority or not.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by HopSkipJump
 





Perhaps given the circumstances, they should take the entire debt for the Iraq war, the tax cuts for the rich and any other bush incentive with them since they only want to leave because there's a black democrat president.


Oh here it is. You are mad because real American Patriots don't take well to gun control and possbile confiscation, unConstitituional means of demolishing the 2nd Amendment, UN takeover through things like Small Arms treaties and the Law of The Sea Treaty, confiscation of personal property by the State, invasive groping by TSA at airports and other checkpoints, assassination of American Citizens abroad with no trial, and detention of American citizens with out trial, forced purchase of insurance and subsidizing of abortions, and quite possibly the giving away of American land to the Chinese to repay the debt the govt chalked up through excessive programs , entitlements, and wars we never really win, but you think it's because he is black that Americans are rising up.
Here me now. He is JUST the willing FACE of the NWO, and a tyrannical and egotistical one at that.

Besides that, no one would be stupid enough to secede from the Union over one black President.
The abuse of govt has become too systemic.
Tell me why you support Marxism and forced income redistribution?
edit on 21-1-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by LifeIsPeculiar
reply to post by HopSkipJump
 




They set up the government we now have.

This is also not true. Our government has ignored the Constitution many times, and is currently infracted in numerous ways.

So...this happened on your watch?



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 

ya know, all this talk of the Chinese being granted eminent domain authority, especially on Federal lands gets me wondering ... if this Marxist philosophy is so great and grand, where's the proof ?

why is it that no supporter (from any country) can offer concrete proof of success ?

America and her prior capitalism can.
Europe and her corporatism can but isn't that exactly what American patriots defeated in the first place, well that along with the Vatican ?

the Soviets and their socialism ... well, they're still working on it but i sure wouldn't call it a success.

so, what do you think ?
was there ever a successful, Marxist, Socialist or Communist state/country/region that exceeded more than 1/4 billion ppl ??
all i see is even more reasons to secede



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Just for the record, Socialism is very statist and Totalitarian. Why on earth would you want to sacrifice what's left of free enterprise for that? And trhen you paste pics of the Constitution Party. You cannot be Socialist and Constitutionalist at the same time.
Barack Obama stated in his first Presidential Campaign that he wanted to "remake America", and "Fundamentally transform America." And that certainly would be as the new Marxist Utopia he and is friends desire. This is why he has no trouble running over the Constitution over and over again and signing EO's to run around Congress. He doesn't care for any Americans. He serves his NWO masters, the Illuminati and the Bilderbergs.
edit on 21-1-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by LifeIsPeculiar
reply to post by HopSkipJump
 




They set up the government we now have.

This is also not true. Our government has ignored the Constitution many times, and is currently infracted in numerous ways.

So...this happened on your watch?


Yes and the Bolsheviks happened on the Russian people's watch. What's your point?



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 05:23 PM
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I once was a blind patriot. Not no more, first southern state to secede. I'm moving there. This country no longer worth holding on to or having hope for. Come on Texas, please, leave the U.S.?



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 





was there ever a successful, Marxist, Socialist or Communist state/country/region that exceeded more than 1/4 billion ppl ??


Well, I don't believe so. But then I guess it depends on what we consider successful. Statists think it's successful, never mind those people that have to die in the Gulags for the cause.....or the ones that got sent to Siberia for the cause, or burned up in ovens for the cause, or the ones that had to have their property confiscated for the cause...it's all in a day's work for those who think they know how to run the planet and better than us how to run our own lives.

Some of those Scandinavian countries which have been touted as successful may only look so on the veneer.
As one returning Dane says in his blog:


Denmark, as with all “social-democratic welfare states” of Northern Europe is heralded as some sort of ideal society to be mimicked by the world. As with all socialist societies, what you are actually witnessing is a sort of Potemkin Village on a national scale.


and he quotes

As Per Henrik Hansen points out:
"We can conclude from this that of the people in the working age of 18 to 66, more than one quarter live passively on government transfers (full time). For every 100 persons employed full time in 1999, there were 33 working-age people receiving support. Adding pensioners, the total number was 61 people on full time transfer income for each 100 full time employed persons. (The pensioners are financed by a pay-as-you-go pension scheme). And out of those who are employed, 31.5 percent work for the government."


here's the reality of Socialism in Denmark


From taxing their citizens into poverty to forcing them to endure the highest electricity rates in the world due to the cult like obsession with lowering carbon emissions (god forbid it actually warms up a bit in Denmark!), the Danish State takes top marks for keeping the prisoners down.



The government owned tv/radio station, DR (Danmarks Radio), demands payment whether you care to catch it’s propaganda or not. Even if you subscribe to a private cable or satellite service, if you own any device that can display a TV signal or pickup a radio signal (It can be a cellphone with a radio feature, car stereo, TV, computer monitor etc.) then by law, you have to pay a “DR License” every month. In order to enforce this law the government has specially equipped vans with huge antennas to detect TV’s and devices (see photo below) that drives around all day looking for "criminals" that have the capability to pickup the propaganda but are not paying the license.


dollarvigilante.com...

And not that we don't pay all sorts of taxes and fees here, but then why is Denmark considered more successful if they are forced to pay for it by the State regardless?

I have also read that some of these countries had other sources of income from natural resources. Otherwise how could they pay for having so many people on the dole?



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Just for the record, Socialism is very statist and Totalitarian. Why on earth would you want to sacrifice what's left of free enterprise for that? And trhen you paste pics of the Constitution Party. You cannot be Socialist and Constitutionalist at the same time.
Barack Obama stated in his first Presidential Campaign that he wanted to "remake America", and "Fundamentally transform America." And that certainly would be as the new Marxist Utopia he and is friends desire. This is why he has no trouble running over the Constitution over and over again and signing EO's to run around Congress. He doesn't care for any Americans. He serves his NWO masters, the Illuminati and the Bilderbergs.
edit on 21-1-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)


Yeah. Just bundle a bunch of words together that somewhat make sense and bingo everyone should applaud you. It is funny though because we probably agree on just as many things as we disagree about. Maybe if you spent less time demonising socialism and more time demonising masonry and the bilderbergers we would be in 90% agreement.

True statism is not the best system and best to be avoided, but I would rather have social statism than corporate feudalism. Guns alone don't bring "freedom" when you are subjected to financial slavery. Big business does not like america because a)its cheaper to produce overseas b)too much chicken # legislation in the states c)no tariffs.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by frazzle

Originally posted by Kashai
And there is also this

Any thoughts?


As far as Iaccoca goes, I would imagine he considered himself a great patriot and businessman and even if he wasn't a prince of a guy behind closed doors, at the very least he provided tens of thousands of Americans with good paying jobs. The Pinto was an unmitigated disaster, no argument about that, but out of over 350,000 of them sold at less than $2,000 apiece, there were only 27 deaths recorded due to those stupid gas tanks.

So all in all, many people look back on that era as "the good old days" ~ maybe even the LAST of the good old days when there was still a sense of stability in the economy and patriotism toward government was the default position.

On that other link, I can't see how a piece of murderous Russian slime figures into this conversation at all.


You don't get it Mr. Iaccoca sat down one day with his friends. It was made clear to him that, by doing this the cause of death was really not the accident. Essentially a part that is very important to every vehicle was removed. He made a decision to do something he was told, with certainty would in fact kill people.

He belongs in Prison

Had it been a family member of your's how would you respond




No Congressional Approval Needed
There are two ways that presidents can enact initiatives without congressional approval. Presidents may issue a proclamation, often ceremonial in nature, such as naming a day in honor of someone or something that has contributed to American society. A president may also issue an executive order, which has the full effect of law and is directed to federal agencies that are charged with carrying out the order. Examples include Franklin D. Roosevelt's executive order for the internment of Japanese-Americans after the attack on Pearl Harbor, Harry Truman's integration of the armed forces and Dwight Eisenhower's order to integrate the nation's schools.

Congress cannot directly vote to override an executive order in the way they can a veto. Instead, Congress must pass a bill canceling or changing the order in a manner they see fit. The president will typically veto that bill, and then Congress can try to override the veto of that second bill. The Supreme Court can also declare an executive order to be unconstitutional. Congressional cancellation of an order is extremely rare.


Presidential Legislative Powers

Further Reading

Any thoughts?



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp
 


Members of Congress supported a Right Wing Agenda, that includes presenting that Real Rape cannot result in a Pregnancy

Absolutely Pathetic.....

Any thoughts?




edit on 20-1-2013 by Kashai because: modified content
That is a the genetic fallacy of falsely associating two separate and unrelated concepts.


The "popularity" of Congress has no relation to the illegal, unconstitutional alphabet soup agences bypassing the authority of Congress laid down in the Constitution as the sole writers of laws.

The question is not about the "quality" of Congress, but Constitutionally mandated authority to write laws.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by Observor
 


Yes it does......

Unregulated capitalism turns into an oligarchy. The wealthiest will rule the peasants and influence the state in their interests alone. There is no such thing as free market capitalism. It never will and never can exist.

Just sit and think about it for a second.

The whole "real capitalism" argument is a whole bunch of fail.


edit on 21-1-2013 by WaterBottle because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-1-2013 by WaterBottle because: (no reason given)


Mostly true but private central banking worsens the situation rather than helping it. The government itself and all its agencies have incorporated the last 20 odd years in the state of delaware. I am not making up crap. It is true!

People with too much time and money on their hands are messing with nations and wanting them to fail so they can install this one world corporate dictatorship with rfid chips, the vatican as the official church of christianity, start ww3 and depopulate, etc. I forgot the digital currency bit!

Anything with a private central bank is defacto luciferian!



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by Observor
 




The whole "real capitalism" argument is a whole bunch of fail.


edit on 21-1-2013 by WaterBottle because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-1-2013 by WaterBottle because: (no reason given)


"Real capitalism" works just fine.

But we do not have "real capitalism", and haven't since Teddy Roosevelt, who was a progressive(socialist lite).

What we have is a facist economy, with Big Brother government favoring corporatism, working hand in hand to regulate and protect big banks and big corporate interests.

The small entrepreneur is squeezed out by protectionist regulations and licensing costs they cannot afford, but big corporations and big banks can.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


How many people has capitalism killed via artificial scarcity of resources, manufactured religious wars, supplying weapons to guerillas to fight socialist/communist rebellions? And lastly please tell me you have no urge to shove some billionares and trillionares(bilderbergers) in the oven much like hitler did? Yeah, ok!


Everyone thinks they are above revenge till their time comes and anger takes over. Please keep the hypocrisy to yourself.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by HopSkipJump
 


You are confusing "patriot" with the following terms: lackey, drone, fool, idiot, blind obedience.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by JuniorBeauchamp

Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by Observor
 




The whole "real capitalism" argument is a whole bunch of fail.


edit on 21-1-2013 by WaterBottle because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-1-2013 by WaterBottle because: (no reason given)


"Real capitalism" works just fine.

But we do not have "real capitalism", and haven't since Teddy Roosevelt, who was a progressive(socialist lite).

What we have is a facist economy, with Big Brother government favoring corporatism, working hand in hand to regulate and protect big banks and big corporate interests.

The small entrepreneur is squeezed out by protectionist regulations and licensing costs they cannot afford, but big corporations and big banks can.


The only real progressive was JFK and the guy got killed. Teddy Roosevelt like Woodrow Wilson were liberal sellouts to the rockefellers and rothschilds. If you are going to criticise things at least get the labels correct so you don't blame the wrong people and systems.

Second what we have is not facism. Fascism(national socialism) makes much more sense then the international capitalism we have now, with big banks and big business completly dominating all the nations including america.

Third there is no protectionism! Nearly all the chicken # legislation that exists in the USA applies only to business that is not able to ship its manufacturing base overseas, because it cannot afford to. Therefore the laws are hypocritical, choking, unfair, biased. Get it?

Fourth capitalism ALWAYS funnels money UPWARDS because people do not work for free and business owners INVEST their CAPITAL to MAKE PROFIT! We can argue what greed is all day and all night, but until you start labeling things correctly I will probably just ignore you.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by Kashai
 



You don't get it Mr. Iaccoca sat down one day with his friends. It was made clear to him that, by doing this the cause of death was really not the accident. Essentially a part that is very important to every vehicle was removed. He made a decision to do something he was told, with certainty would in fact kill people.

He belongs in Prison

Had it been a family member of your's how would you respond


CEOs in any given industry have always done what Iaccoca did and it causes untold deaths on a daily basis. Think pharmaceutical companies and how regulators give carte blanche approval to dangerous products. Think BP and the destruction of an entire ecosystem as well as seriously sickening thousands of people without any penalty (at least to the injured). But you're right, no one in my family died in a Pinto although I have lost loved ones due to collusion between government and boardrooms. There is probably no one in this country today who has not lost someone due to government approved corporate shortcuts and profits, even if they don't know it.

The only reason this Iacocca thing even fits the thread topic is that the US government climbed into bed with corporate moguls well over a century ago. Well actually it goes all the way back to the beginning. So we're at least a century too late and about 222 trillion dollars short on dealing with what they've done to us and solutions aren't exactly thick on the ground. That's why secession seems reasonable as a sort of last ditch effort at taking back what we thought the founders gave to us.

But you can bet they won't let it happen peacefully because they need us more than we need them.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by HopSkipJump

Originally posted by dc4lifeskater
you secede when you try and try and try and try then try and then try some more and oh yah you try allot more to make things better and THEY want to hold you back from making things better, THEY turn brother against brother, THEY poison you with their GMO foods and medicines that hurt more then help, THEY take and take and take until you have nothing left to give and then put you in jail so they can take some more.

If a violent rebellion rose up against them I would join it but I will not start it. I would prefer to hurt them by leaving them to drown in the wake they have created, when they fall we can rise up and fix what has been so badly broken.

To support someone who is doing wrong makes you no better then them, I do not support the corrupt US government, I do not support the FED and the banksters, I do not support wall street and the greed and corruption that we have to suffer so that they can all live like gods while we suffer.

I will not support them ever, that is why I am a patriot, and I am a texan and I would gladly vote to secede for the corruption and green of the US.


If you would rise up against your form of government and go against the US Constitution, which you would have to do if you rose up against the form of government, you are NOT a patriot, you are a treasonous coward.
The things you have listed are not "the government", they are entities that work within the government. The government is the set of laws and offices laid forth by the Constitution, not the capitalistic groups that try to twist and warp the Constitution. Banks are not government officials, Wall Street is not a government official, GMO foods is not a government official. If you want those things changed, you work within the framework that is set forth, you don't just throw the framework out the window because there are some extremist right wing groups that are trying to control people while working within the framework. You take away their loopholes, you stop them from warping our government, you don't just leave the government behind because you don't agree with some non-government entities may be doing.

You may not like it, but that's the way it is.


I agree that changing government from within the framework would be ideal, but don't be a fool.. you think that the thousands and thousands of people who cried foul on our political leaders have NOT tried this!?! If it's so easy to just fix the loopholes -like many patriots have tried- why hasn't it been done? Do you really think these people you're talking about are all idiots that just want chaos, war and bloodshed? If you do, you are a fool. They are people.. people who have families and love.. people who enjoy life, just like you.

Our government is not the law, the constitution is. Our government is simply the means of making, and enforcing law -via the people. However, current and former government leaders have perverted and usurped the system and have undermined the constitution. They have made "working within the system" a joke, of which the People are the butt.

I believe you have read the constitution -far be it from me to call you a liar- but I think you may be making connections where none exist. You'd make a great politician.



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