It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
The USA is a "Constitutional Republic", which is the most FREE and secure form of government.
"As there is a degree of depravity in mankind which requires a certain degree of circumspection and distrust: So there are other qualities in human nature, which justify a certain portion of esteem and confidence. Republican government (that of a Republic) presupposes the existence of these qualities in a higher degree than any other form. Were the pictures which have been drawn by the political jealousy of some among us, faithful likenesses of the human character, the inference would be that there is not sufficient virtue among men for self government; and that nothing less than the chains of despotism can restrain them from destroying and devouring one another."
In the extent and proper structure of the Union, therefore, we behold a republican remedy for the diseases most incident to republican government. And according to the degree of pleasure and pride we feel in being republicans, ought to be our zeal in cherishing the spirit and supporting the character of Federalists.
exactly how is our current government achieving these goals ??
"Thoughts on Government" - [Republican Government]
[color=amber]A Constitution, founded on these principles, introduces knowledge among the People, and inspires them with a conscious dignity, becoming Freemen. A general emulation takes place, which causes good humour, sociability, good manners, and good morals to be general. That elevation of sentiment, inspired by such a government, makes the common people brave and enterprizing. That ambition which is inspired by it makes them sober, industrious and frugal.
The formidable task before Jay in both of his Chief Justice roles was not merely to preside over courts, but to preside over their development at a time of unprecedented public anxiety concerning republican government, America's state of affairs, and the fledgling American cause itself.
and secondly, when have i, in this thread, called for bloodshed ?
Our Constitution allows for States to secede if they should so choose to do so, but, there is a way to do that without further bloodshed.
then why do you continue on such a path ?
But just complaining and knit-picking over philosophical/political concepts really doesn't enhance any debate
don't know where you are located but Americans do not and don't want to either.
True, we live in a non-perfect Democracy,
got a link ? preferrably with instructions ??
Bottom line, if people want to secede, they have a legal and peaceful way to go about it
Originally posted by HopSkipJump
The only thing it would accomplish is destroying the country that we have worked 237 years to build. The result would not be "better", it would be complete chaos.
The people advocating it are short sighted and are doing so merely because they are upset that their party lost.
If Romney had won, we would have the same problems, if not more, but they'd be behind him 100% because he was from their political party. It's nothing but a political game and the people advocating it are being manipulated by those trying to manipulate them. They are not capable of thinking for themselves, they are only capable of doing what their idols tell them to do.
Think it through, do you honestly think it would be successful?? Seriously? There are two possible outcomes, the states that secedes goes for a while as an "independent country" until it is attacked by the Middle East, Mexico or some other sovereign nation and defeated, then we have to step in and reclaim our land. The second possiblity is they secede and there is a war between that independent state and the rest of the country, which they will lose because they will not have the might they think they will have. Many people will die, families will be torn apart and we'll have to step in and reclaim our land and spend billions of dollars cleaning up the mess.
It's not an answer, it's an additional problem. It won't build up anything, it will only tear apart.
The ONLY way you can see it as a success is if your goal is to completely destroy the nation with no hopes of recovery and leaving us at the mercy of whatever other country wants to attack. Sure, you'll be seen as a "patriot" by the Middle East country that takes over, or Russia, or China or Japan or whichever country it turns out to be, but you are a TRAITOR to the United States of America.
Originally posted by WaterBottle
Seceding would work in what way?
The new nation would be overcome by the same capitalist interests that the US is taken over by. Especially since the people that would be seceding are right wing extremists that generally believe in unregulated capitalism.
The new state would be worse than the US. It would be something like a 3rd world country.
It would be like China, antebellum south, Somolia, and the Wild West all wrapped up in one place.
It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on December 8, 1993 and entered force January 1, 1994. Although it was signed by President Bush, it was a priority of President Clinton's, and its passage is considered one of his first successes.
Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by Observor
Ronald Reagan with his free trade libertarian wanna-be views created the nightmare both for america and the rest of the world. No tariffs and lots of taxes. Leveraged buyouts to ensure small and medium business gets gobbled up by the mult-national conglomerates and other all-around market deregulation.
The solution to increase government revenue without raising taxes, while bringing and keeping jobs in america is to raise tariffs on all imports. Start trade wars if necessary. At least they make more sense then nutjob religious bush wars.
Less wars and a smaller military-industrial complex. Close 60-70 percent of all foreign military bases and bring the troops back home. Ron Paul and Gary Johnsons have this much correct! We don't need war with syria, iran, russia, china. We need better border security. Go after the black budget which is 30-50 percent of the total DOD budget.
Otherwise welfare spending will reach such enormous heights that the whole financial system will collapse within the next 20 years. There is nothing radical about what I am saying. What the msm is saying is what is stupid and radical.
Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by Observor
Yes it does......
Unregulated capitalism turns into an oligarchy. The wealthiest will rule the peasants and influence the state in their interests alone. There is no such thing as free market capitalism. It never will and never can exist.
Just sit and think about it for a second.
The whole "real capitalism" argument is a whole bunch of fail.
Originally posted by GokuVsSuperman0
Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by HopSkipJump
Are you mistakenly comparing a blind sheep to a patriot??? WOW!!!! Just WOW!!!
Sounds like you need to actually read the Constitution......edit on 19-1-2013 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)
Seceding from the union is cowardice, running away from a problem instead helping to fix it. All those morons who are making petitions to secede from the union just because a black president has created Obama care (a relatively backward national health care system compared to every other developed nation on earth) is retarded. As a person who lives in a province that almost seceded from Canada, u have no idea how much it would cripple the state as well as turn Americans against the ppl of ur state
Originally posted by Observor
There is a third way and it will go that way. The seceding states will form a union under a constitution similar to the existing one, but with more effective checks and balances. Its military will be used only for defending its territory and not "interests" as defined by some special interest groups. The truncated USA will not attack this new union since that will only weaken it and the special interests controlling it need all the might they can use to fight their battles elsewhere in the world. There is no other state that is even remotely capable of launching on attack on the new union.The newly formed union will prosper while the truncated globalist tool will dry up slowly and when it no longer has the ability to serve its masters will be abandoned. The states of that entity will then opt to join the new union.
Originally posted by HopSkipJump
Is that what your talking heads have told you??? Seriously?
Think about it, there is no way in Hades it would happen that way, it's not even remotely possible. When a state leaves, they don't take everything they have with them, they leave with NOTHING. They don't get to take federal military bases with them, they don't take soldiers with them, they don't take equipment with them, they don't take funds with them, they take NOTHING but what they can carry on their backs. In some cases, they don't even take the land with them and they most likely won't take the entire state with them because there is only a small group of people in that state that want this, not the entire state.