Originally posted by jiggerj
Originally posted by Awen24.
should I now ignore your point and tell you to use your own brain instead of Dawkins'?
YES! If we don't express our own opinions then we're just being mindless carriers of the ideas of others. What would be the point? Hell, what would
be the point of living?
edit on 1/19/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)
This is incorrect... because sometimes others express a point in better language and syntax than we ourselves could come up with - hence the point of
quoting - like your (correct) use of Dawkins - which is not a point in and of itself, but an extension upon the point that you yourself made in your
It isn't that it's not YOUR idea, it isn't that you've simply "mindlessly carried his ideas", but that he's made an express point in a manner
that you have neither the time nor the space to convey in your own words in this space - and so using his existing logic and reasoning furthers your
own argument through incorporation.
...as is quoting the Bible. It isn't a mindless engagement (in fact, the Bible itself expressly forbids that kind of engagement with the text -
stating that Christians should be "always ready to give an answer", "wise as serpents, gentle as doves", "not given to vain repetition", etc.),
but a logical, rational engagement with a text that succinctly encapsulates a simple truth -
in this case, the truth that no man, woman or child is entitled
to a miracle - that miracles are an expression designed to signify a single
point - the complete "otherness" and glory of God... and His mastery over all things.
So why does one person receive a miracle, while another doesn't? Well, I'm not God - so I can't directly answer that question... there may be
specific reasons as to why or why not that I'm not aware of - but I am aware of a general principle that the Bible presents.
14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, x“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,2 but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the
Scripture says to Pharaoh, y“For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in
all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will
what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump done
vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with
much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared
beforehand for glory—24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
This is a difficult point to accept - even for Christians...
but the teaching presented here suggests that none of us are in a position to argue against the will of God as displayed in the life of man. The
primary reason for this is the fact that we are merely the clay; God is the potter. We're no better equipped to understand His purpose in our lives
than the clay is to the potter. In fact, the only knowledge and understanding of our own purposes in the grander plan of God stems from God Himself,
and from what He has chosen to make known to us.
So why a miracle in Cana, turning water into wine, and not in Haiti, where thousands died?
We will never know in this lifetime. To us, this seems a tragedy - possibly even an injustice. It's true that God could have saved these people
from the earthquake and ensuing devastation, and chose not to. However, it is also an inherent truth of our existence that we are a limited people.
We see in part, we know in part, we understand based on a very limited context of our own perspective. We cannot possibly be in a position to make an
educated, logical and rational emotional response to such a phenomenon.
God undoubtedly has His purpose (He always does), whether that be something explicit (to show His glory in some way), or implicit (to allow the world
to continue expressing its fallen nature). We gain what understanding we can, from what perspective we can... but ultimately I trust the creator of
the Universe to do what is right... and take comfort in the fact that the day is coming when all Creation will be reconciled to Him.