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2010 Haiti Earthquake
the Haitian government reported that an estimated 316,000 people had died [as a result of the earthquake], 300,000 had been injured and 1,000,000 made homeless.
Originally posted by jiggerj
I created a thread called List your miracles. It was supposed to be about looking at these miraculous incidents from a purely rational standpoint. The thread went in different directions (which I don't mind at all), but the few miracles listed were about life experiences that were nothing short of horror stories. I couldn't debate these miracles because I would have felt cruel in doing so.
So, I'd like to come at this topic from a different angle. Where a few have looked at a tragedy in their lives and discovered a miracle there, it makes me wonder just how many stories are out there that didn't end Happily Ever After, or with a hint of miraculous intervention.
I guess what I'm getting at is, if I ever experienced something of a personal nature that I might think it a miracle, I would be compelled to stop a moment and think: Wait a minute here, where was the miracle for the six million Jews murdered by Hitler? Where was the miracle for the 300,000 killed in the recent tsunami?
Where was the miracle for the people of Haiti? From wiki, did you know that2010 Haiti Earthquake
the Haitian government reported that an estimated 316,000 people had died [as a result of the earthquake], 300,000 had been injured and 1,000,000 made homeless.
If a miracle happened for me, in my fairly safe home, in my fairly safe country, where food and medicine is plenty, I would have to seriously doubt the miracle and mark it as a random, natural occurrence. To think otherwise would make me a terribly arrogant person in concluding that I am somehow special in the eyes of a god when, apparently, millions and millions were not.
edit on 1/19/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Wonders
Wonders, please don't turn into a mindless bible quoter. You're better than this. You have your own mind, please use it.edit on 1/19/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Awen24
Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Wonders
Wonders, please don't turn into a mindless bible quoter. You're better than this. You have your own mind, please use it.edit on 1/19/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)
...actually, what's mindless is completely ignoring the point and purpose of the quote simply because it's from a book you don't agree with.
His point stands.
he's using a quote to express a point from the Bible
Originally posted by Awen24.
should I now ignore your point and tell you to use your own brain instead of Dawkins'?
Originally posted by jiggerj
Originally posted by Awen24.
should I now ignore your point and tell you to use your own brain instead of Dawkins'?
YES! If we don't express our own opinions then we're just being mindless carriers of the ideas of others. What would be the point? Hell, what would be the point of living?edit on 1/19/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)
14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, x“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,2 but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, y“For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump done vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
However, it is also an inherent truth of our existence that we are a limited people. We see in part, we know in part, we understand based on a very limited context of our own perspective.
Originally posted by adjensen
You know what, jiggerj?
As you know from your other thread (which had more promise, in my opinion,) my life has been affected by miracles, both those that happened that those that didn't. But my personal philosophy is this:
I'm thankful for the miracles that I've received, I don't complain about those that I haven't.
That seems reasonable, no? I'd wager that, if you spent sufficient time in reflection, you could come up with a list of unexplainable things in your life that you could be grateful for, no matter whether you're thankful to God or happenstance.
Don't rely on Dawkins for your philosophy -- outside of biology, he's pretty well viewed as a pompous oaf.
Mythic consciousness, however, was a great step forward from the world of tribes because you did not need to meet the even more materialistic requirement of blood kinship to belong. Anyone could be converted and belong. True, it was far below the level of consciousness that Jesus and his disciples preached. But most Christians, even in the early Church, were incapable of understanding Jesus except in a mythic way. They thought mythically and saw the world mythically. So Christianity, despite what Jesus and his disciples said and wrote, was soon reduced to the level of mythic consciousness and, for the most part, has stayed that way, at least at the popular level, for most of these last two thousand years.
It's psychological wholeness. It's the elimination of the shadow or the total integration of the shadow into the personality. I think there are a lot of gurus and masters out there who may be enlightened but who are, nevertheless, not psychologically whole.