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More to getting into heaven than most Christians believe?

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posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 08:35 PM
OP, I have not read this topic in it's entirety but I believe one major point MAY have been missed. You can go to church, you can read the Bible, you can truly believe that Jesus died for your sins. You can feel everything in your heart......but God also wants you to have "fellowship" with him, He wants to hear from you morning and night, prayer, He truly wants to know you and He wants you to rely on Him for everything in your life. He wants you to trust in Him. Talk to Him, about your life and let Him lead you the way He needs you to go.

posted on Oct, 31 2004 @ 02:56 PM

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Raphael_UO
Just to note: They did call Jesus Lord. Not only that, but they received gifts of the holy spirit.

So are you saying that salvation is based on works?

What I was saying is:

This is talking about people who never accepted Christ as the basis for salvation.

They accepted Jesus; they called Jesus Lord. The things they did were gifts of the holy spirit; this gives evidence to their acceptance. Their declaration gives evidence of both accepting Christ and works. But neither was enough. Why is this so?

As I stated on the first page:

7:22 is an example of the subtleties of pride.

Simply, they judge themselves worthy of entering heaven.

The verses (mat 7:21-23) are not saying works are enough. The verses are not saying accepting Jesus is enough. The verses are saying neither is enough if one does not love God with all his heart mind and soul. All means no room for that which is not love-- pride. It is pride that gives rise to such a judgement.

posted on Oct, 31 2004 @ 04:44 PM
I think that you seem to be hung up on pride.

There is a difference between pride before God, and pride among men.

The two are not equal, but you think they are all similar. Now we must suppose it plainly obvious that two men are not equal before God. God has made this difference himself.

It would be disservice to God, therefore, to make these two men equal, when they are not. It would also be disservice to God, to make it so these men could not discern between themselves, to know their own selves, and to discern between greater and lessor.

You do not seem to consider these differences, nor do your words address them, so I am left to conlcude that you think that God has made us all equal in nature, share, and dominion.

Obviously, we know this is not the case. I do not bear the weight of the sins of another man directly, nor does he receive the blessing of my righteousness directly, but all is weighed before the Father. Good is increased, and evil is diminished, By God's Will.

You have this great aversion to pride, such that it has blinded you to any form of honor or exaltation whatsoever. Know that God has honored one man's head above another, and has lowered one's man's knees below another's for His Justice is done. This is done on the earth, as well as in heaven, before witnesses I speak.

So what profit have you in your cries against pride, if you cannot receive any blessing or honor? Does it remain in you to diminish everyone and everything, and to break yourself into the dust? How so does this serve the God of our intellect, who has commanded us to grow and fill the whole universe, and to glorify His name?

Brother, get off of your face. And if you be unable to raise up your face, I would that you retired to your cave or cell, because to some of us the worship of God is a continual rejoicing, like it was for Jesus.


posted on Oct, 31 2004 @ 06:02 PM

I have spoke of Love. For it is God's command that we love God, and love your neighbor as yourself.
I have spoke of pride for it is what love is not and is the basis for all sin.
I have spoke of humility because it is the difference between the two.

We talked of the nature of children, but you did not see the equality of nature with which we were made. All that we become afterward, is a result of choice. A choice to love God or not. If one chooses to love God one can return to the state from which he came.

So I am left to ask you, is this the greatest commandment in the law?

Matthew 22:36-40
Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

And I ask you: How can you love yourself more than you love your neighbor, exalting yourself above that neighbor, if it is the will of God that you love thy neighbor as thyself?

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