More to getting into heaven than most Christians believe?

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posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 12:38 AM
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Let me keep this short and sweet. The male orgasm is simply a physical response to stimulation. It doesnt have any connection whatsoever to spiritual matters in and of itself. It was designed by God to be enjoyed by a man and woman who are married. All this new age nonsense about, the perfection of the climax is nothing more than man made garbage, which takes away from the more important issues of Christ and him crucified.




posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by Machine
Let me keep this short and sweet. The male orgasm is simply a physical response to stimulation. It doesnt have any connection whatsoever to spiritual matters in and of itself. It was designed by God to be enjoyed by a man and woman who are married. All this new age nonsense about, the perfection of the climax is nothing more than man made garbage, which takes away from the more important issues of Christ and him crucified.


Well said. I agree. I don't know why people go so far into it :shk:. It's pretty simple, really.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 12:56 AM
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Machine

I don't know what Arkaleus is getting at; but if you read what I posted, you'll see that some of what you said is completely erroneous:





Originally posted by Tamahu

"Liquor and fornication must be banished from the bosom of Gnostic homes. However, we must not be fanatics. Whosoever is incapable of handling one drink at a social gathering is as weak as someone who cannot control his liquor and gets drunk. Fornication is something entirely different. Fornication is unforgivable. Whosoever ejaculates the seminal liquor is a fornicator. Thus, for those who reach orgasm, for fornicators, the abyss and Second Death await."



Orgasm?

:shk:



There are three classes of Tantrism: white, black and grey. In White Tantrism, ejaculation of the semen is prohibited; in Black Tantrism, ejaculation of the semen is obligatory; in Grey Tantrism, ejaculation of the semen is not considered important .In the long term, Grey Tantrism is transformed into Black Tantrism. In White Tantrism, the serpent ascends along the length of the medulla of the spinal cord. In Black Tantrism, the serpent descends, projecting itself down from the coccyx towards the atomic infernos of man, becoming Satan's tail.




Normally, the Hindu yogi sits in the style of Buddha, cross-legged, and the yogini sits on his legs with her legs encircling the yogi's body and crossed behind him. Then they connect sexually, with the pair withdrawing before orgasm to avoid seminal ejaculation.




The best asana (sacred posture) for the Maithuna is the normal one: breast against breast, face-to-face, solar plexus against solar plexus in order to form a perfect androgyne; later, the man and woman withdraw from the sexual act before orgasm and seminal ejaculation.



And of course, the single person has to remain in Brahmacharya until they find their spouse.


Pranayama(breath control) is needed for one to be able to control the most powerful Sexual Energy.



Of course fanatics will object, thinking that they can enter Heaven as fornicators; just because they believe.....


:shk:





Peace



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by HermanWell said. I agree. I don't know why people go so far into it :shk:. It's pretty simple, really.



It is simple.

Fornicators/egotists can not enter Heaven no matter how much they believe in Jesus.

Spilling the seed is fornication, even if it's with your wife.







[Edited on 29-10-2004 by Tamahu]



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by Tamahu

Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect.
- Yeshua of Nazareth














[Edited on 29-10-2004 by Tamahu]



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 08:13 AM
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Tamahu,

If a man and a woman are married and during the course of sex he ejaculates outside of her body, this is not a sin. There is not one word in the Bible forbidding that act. As for this whole silly orgasm topic, Im done.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 10:31 AM
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That's why I bought up the matter. Any sensible person should realize that a person claiming to speak the truth, should be able to address all issues of life.

Yet instead, we see these "Christians" flee away from this knowledge. What kind of complete doctrine do they preach? None at all. They have no knowledge. They exist at a level little better than animals.

Tamahu, thanks for your cool insight. I don't buy much of that Aeon Wor guy. Whatever he got, he got by himself it seems.

I truly feel some pity for these born-again types. They never will learn what they are claiming to seek. I have demonstrated them to be incomplete, and rathe rignorant, yet they continue to post here as though they have wise words to say. Does a fool continue in his prattle, even when his words are shown to be vile? God Forbid.

The orgasm is quite important to understand, because it is used for great evil by this world. It is how children are miseld into great danger, and how women fall into great madness, it is the hidden seprent among us, let us crush its head.

Shame on these teachers who do not teach us this most improtant thing, because they cause us to fall into danger, and they allow the animals to approach us, because of their shame and stubbornness, they will not address what they ought.

From first hand experience, I can only verify that the witholding of the seed causes one to grow in spiritual power, such that he is able to overcome the forces of evil beings. This seems to give one strength over our neighbors who delight in the power of the projection of mind power. This allows us to escape their damnation.

Arkaleus



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 10:31 AM
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That's why I bought up the matter. Any sensible person should realize that a person claiming to speak the truth, should be able to address all issues of life.

Yet instead, we see these "Christians" flee away from this knowledge. What kind of complete doctrine do they preach? None at all. They have no knowledge. They exist at a level little better than animals.

Tamahu, thanks for your cool insight. I don't buy much of that Aeon Wor guy. Whatever he got, he got by himself it seems.

I truly feel some pity for these born-again types. They never will learn what they are claiming to seek. I have demonstrated them to be incomplete, and rathe rignorant, yet they continue to post here as though they have wise words to say. Does a fool continue in his prattle, even when his words are shown to be vile? God Forbid.

The orgasm is quite important to understand, because it is used for great evil by this world. It is how children are miseld into great danger, and how women fall into great madness, it is the hidden seprent among us, let us crush its head.

Shame on these teachers who do not teach us this most improtant thing, because they cause us to fall into danger, and they allow the animals to approach us, because of their shame and stubbornness, they will not address what they ought.

From first hand experience, I can only verify that the witholding of the seed causes one to grow in spiritual power, such that he is able to overcome the forces of evil beings. This seems to give one strength over our neighbors who delight in the power of the projection of mind power. This allows us to escape their damnation.

Arkaleus



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by Arkaleus
So let me guess:

You must think that the male orgasm is something from Satan. You must think that it is wicked, nasty, evil, and something totally foul.


In case you required a reply:

I did not say that. I said that lust was the cause of "sexual" sin.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 07:03 PM
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I did not ask you about sin, lust, etc. I asked you about the mytery of orgasm.

Why did you connect evil to it? I did not want you to. Who on earth would connect evil to an orgasm?

Abort, Retry, Fail?

An orgasm isn't a sin. I want to know what it IS. Can you answer me, or just him haw?

Arkaleus

[Edited on 29-10-2004 by Arkaleus]



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by Arkaleus
An orgasm isn't a sin. I want to know what it IS. Can you answer me, or just him haw?

Arkaleus

[Edited on 29-10-2004 by Arkaleus]


It's just the result of a sexual organ responding to stimulation... Am I missing something here?



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 10:48 PM
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"N-kay."

Hmm. I really thought you have more to say about it.

How about we get another go at your description of heaven. You guys never gave me a clear answer. At least one that I could celebrate, anyway.

1. What are heavenly people like? What do they "do" in that happy state?

2. What makes heaven different than any other place? Why do people want to go there? Why do YOU want to go there?

3. What do you WANT to find in heaven? What would you want to enjoy forever and ever?

Can you elaborate on these questions please? It's something you guys should have plenty of things to say about. Your books tell you in rather plain writing, but I want a more personal expectation from YOU.

Arky



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by Machine
Tamahu,

If a man and a woman are married and during the course of sex he ejaculates outside of her body, this is not a sin. There is not one word in the Bible forbidding that act. As for this whole silly orgasm topic, Im done.



Actually, the word "sin" may have an etymological root that relates to an ancient word, that means something similiar to: "to spill the semen".

It's in one of the links on the following website but I didn't take enough time to find it:


Amir Fatir


The symbolism of Adam and Eve leaving the 'Garden of Eden' is directly related with fornication A.K.A. 'spilling the seed'.

When Yeshua mentioned fornication he meant it on all levels.

There is the fornication that takes place in/on the Mental Plane of course; but is not limited to adultery and 'premarital sex' regarding the physical.

The Bible, like any other Sacred Text, is written in allegorical form.


Yeshua most certainly included the spilling of the seed in his definition of "fornication".



Originally posted by Herman
It's just the result of a sexual organ responding to stimulation... Am I missing something here?



Is that all it is?

You are missing alot.

I broke it down in my last couple posts incase you missed it.



Originally posted by Arkaleus
Tamahu, thanks for your cool insight. I don't buy much of that Aeon Wor guy. Whatever he got, he got by himself it seems.


It seems...

But the "White Tantra" that he teaches is actually the basis of Alchemy(notice all the Kundalini symbolism in Rosicrucian/Alchemical art?).

The Dalai Lamas practice it too:

"Never have I slept without a sweetheart
Nor have I spent a single drop of sperm."
- The Sixth Dalai Lama


It's just that nobody has revealed the truth to the masses until recently regarding the symbolism.

This Sacred Science is ancient and a few have mastered it in places like ancient Kemet, Arabia, Tibet, India, amongst the Taoist Alchemists of China, etc., etc., etc. Even some Europeans and Americans.






PEACE





[Edited on 30-10-2004 by Tamahu]



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by Arkaleus
"N-kay."

Hmm. I really thought you have more to say about it.

How about we get another go at your description of heaven. You guys never gave me a clear answer. At least one that I could celebrate, anyway.

1. What are heavenly people like? What do they "do" in that happy state?

2. What makes heaven different than any other place? Why do people want to go there? Why do YOU want to go there?

3. What do you WANT to find in heaven? What would you want to enjoy forever and ever?

Can you elaborate on these questions please? It's something you guys should have plenty of things to say about. Your books tell you in rather plain writing, but I want a more personal expectation from YOU.

Arky


You already know, Arkaleus, I'm still learning. I don't know as much as you and machine do on matters such as these. The bible hasn't given a clear definition of heaven, so I don't know exactly what it's going to be like. I don't know what they do, but I would like to know. I'm going to keep searching.

From what I've read, Heaven is different from other places for a few very obvious reasons. First, you're there for all eternity. You're closer to Jesus. People want to go there because the bible describes it as a great place, and....frankly it's not Hell!

Honestly, what I want? I would WANT for everyone regardless of religion to go to heaven. For those handfull of truely SICK people in the world, I don't know. But I would like everyone to be eternally happy, and living with Jesus. No more fighting, people would all just get along. I would want to have anything I could eat right in front of me, and never be too full to eat anymore. I would want...eternal happyness and content. Most importantly, living WITH God. We would all have a huge understanding, and live happily among each other for all eternity. Unfortunately, this probably isn't the case. Unfortunately, everyone WON'T go to Heaven. Unfortunately, everyone will probably never get along with each other. Like I said, I'm still studying. I'm still searching for answers.



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 04:20 AM
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Arkaleus,

There are several scriptures in the Holy Bible that describe certain aspects of Heaven. Im looking forward to existing in a dimension that God has prepared for those who love him. One scripture that I love to read is this:

1 Corinthians 2:9 KJV
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Think about this for a minute. God tells us in this scripture that no one has thought of the things God has prepared for those who love him. New bodies, new hearts that are without sin, perfect relationship with God. As Christians we look forward to serving and worshipping our God in eternity. He has wonderful things in store for us!

This link has some good information on what heaven is like.

www.godandscience.org...



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by Herman

22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in they name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23. And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



This is talking about people who never accepted Christ as the basis for salvation. They were trying to get into eternity by the things they did. Salvation is a free gift from God. These people were trying to earn heaven and had never given their sin to Christ for removal.



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Herman

22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in they name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23. And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



This is talking about people who never accepted Christ as the basis for salvation. They were trying to get into eternity by the things they did. Salvation is a free gift from God. These people were trying to earn heaven and had never given their sin to Christ for removal.


Just to note: They did call Jesus Lord. Not only that, but they received gifts of the holy spirit.

@Arkaleus

Just as works of merit have a foundation of love, sins have a foundation of pride. A sin is an act which has its base in an illusion of pride. It is lust (or gluttony, or some other form of pride) which would cause an orgasm to be a sin.



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by Machine
Arkaleus,

There are several scriptures in the Holy Bible that describe certain aspects of Heaven. Im looking forward to existing in a dimension that God has prepared for those who love him. One scripture that I love to read is this:

1 Corinthians 2:9 KJV
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Think about this for a minute. God tells us in this scripture that no one has thought of the things God has prepared for those who love him. New bodies, new hearts that are without sin, perfect relationship with God. As Christians we look forward to serving and worshipping our God in eternity. He has wonderful things in store for us!


Hi, all!

Machine, I think you made a good point here, and brought the discussion back on track at the same time. It seems to me real spirituality has more to do with one's heart-felt relationship with God than with one's own mental fantasies of "What's in it for me?" If one loves God, one trusts that God's gifts will be better than anything you could dream up for yourself.

However, I'd like to echo somebody who made a comment about the distinctly Protestant assumptions you've made in a number of your other statements.

First is the notion that Christianity is "based on the Bible" or on selected texts therefrom. This is a pretty modern idea, not really making much of a serious appearance until about 15 centuries after Jesus.

The Early Church was based on direct teaching and guidence from Apostles [not just the 12 --there were many more] that Jesus commissioned to go out to preach the Good Message ["evangelion"]. As the original Apostles died off, the guidence was given by men they appointed.

This is the institution known as "Apostolic Succession." On the basis of Apostolic Succession, Church Councils were organized to smooth out differences in the way each community looked at things. The first known Council is mentioned in Acts of the Apostles chapter 15.

The question that occasioned this Council was that preachers from Judea were telling gentile converts to Christ in Antioch that they needed to be circumcised & keep the Mosaic Law, too. In their official decision, "the apostles and presbyters with the whole church" wrote an epistle to the gentile Christians of Antioch.

If the reason that it was not necessary to keep the Law in all it's detailed commandments was because they would be saved by means of believing in Jesus's personal sacrifice instead-- well, this would have been the right time & place to mention that. But they didn't. According to the "apostles, etc." these necessary things entail solely "To abstain from which was offered to idols and blood and fornication."

The point I am making is that it was the living existence of Apostles and then later men of Apostolic Succession who actually decided which teachings were essential, and which of the many, many religious writings were to become part of the Christian Bible.

Today you have the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Coptic and Oriental Orthodox Churches, all of whom consider the Bible important as a source of lessons and instruction and inspiration. But they all teach as dogma that which has been handed down to them by Apostolic Succession, and what has been decided in Church Council, not what each individual preacher thinks the Bible is saying. [BTW the official Christian definition of the term "dogma" is "those things which are absolutely necessary for salvation."]

Until Protestants schismed off the Roman Catholic Church, there was no discernable body of Christians who claimed that "accepting Jesus's death as a personal sacrifice" was the only requirement for salvation, nor that one could dispense with the Church and substitute your own interpretation of the Bible as a source of dogma. Those ideas are recent innovations, and not even ones currently held by the majority of people who have been baptized as Christians.

As a discussion point:
What makes anyone think that Christianity teaches you will "go to heaven?" What I read in the Bible always says that God & angels are in the heavens, and no man ever went there except Christ. Salvation refers to resurrection on a new earth, AKA "paradise" or "The Kingdom." No going to heaven, a place/condition/dimension not designed for humans.



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 04:50 PM
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I have never considered that 'heaven" might not be designed for humans.

I tend to view things in terms of spirit and intelligence. Forms of matter seem to be changeable and non-essential. That is something we can learn directly here on earth, without much application.

Therefore, I can only presume that the higher states of existance, such as the "place" where Christ originated from, is a kind of shrine of spirit that exists in that kind of non-corporeal dimension of spirit. Getting there seems to be a journey inward, a thought-journey, and something that takes place in a non-physical sense.

It makes good sense to me, as the process of death is the separation of the ethereal nature from the form of matter, that the nature of heaven would be one of this ethereal form. Little is known about the physics of this environment, but It seems reasonable that it have some kind of quantifiable physics.

Now the afterlife and paradise must certainly be entirely different concepts. I would reason that it would be similar to saying that "life" and "happiness" are not necessarily related. It is possible to live in a state of misery, therefore it is obvious that one might exist in the afterlife in a state of misery. These two would seem to be a continuance of one another.

As for the joy of the afterlife state, it would only seem proper that it be a continuance of the joy of one's life. While this is a simple model, it seems to be consistent with what we see. I hate to burst the protestant bubble, but it seems rather silly to think we will be somehow transitioned into a state of immortal and heavenly knowledge and joy - after a life of misery, ignorance, and material emptiness - merely by saying the magic formula of Jesus' name, or by some ritual of water, etc.

God does not operate by magic, nor do His Laws put themselves out of the range of human understanding. God is not a chagneable God. his ways are orderly, rational, and eternally Good. He does not conceal things - What fear has he? He does not confuse things - Truth is the nature of his emanation! He does not punish men for inquiry - That is contrary to the nature of Truth. Truth is not a tyrant. If there be anything else, it be the devil and his lies.

Arkaleus.



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by Raphael_UO
Just to note: They did call Jesus Lord. Not only that, but they received gifts of the holy spirit.



So are you saying that salvation is based on works?





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