The Lincoln Kennedy Conspiracy - A Closer Analytical Look (Fact & Fiction)

A conspiracy theory in regards to the correlations of dates, names and events between President Abraham Lincoln and President John F. Kennedy has been going around for some time, my first reaction was one of awe, my second was to investigate. My aim is to investigate each claim thoroughly in order to either prove or disprove the claims and analyse my findings.

The claims and findings:

Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.

(Fact) Serving from 1847-1858 when he lost his place in senate to Stephen A Douglas. Wikipedia, Abraham Lincoln en.wikipedia.org...

John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

(Fact) Serving from 1947-1960. Wikipedia, John F. Kennedy en.wikipedia.org...

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.

(Fact) Serving from 1861-to his death in 1865. Wikipedia, Abraham Lincoln en.wikipedia.org...

John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.

(Fact) Serving from 1961-his death in 1963. Wikipedia, John F. Kennedy en.wikipedia.org...

Both were particularly concerned with civil rights. (Fact) Although Lincoln was a democrat and Kennedy was a republican which has been conveniently left out. However, this was a hot topic for any politician of the times. Wikipedia, Abraham Lincoln en.wikipedia.org... Wikipedia, John F. Kennedy en.wikipedia.org...

Both wives lost a child while living in the White House.

(Fact) Although Lincoln had 4 boys, 3 died in childhood, one of them whilst in the Whitehouse, and one died at aged 18 long after his fathers death. Kennedy wife had a miscarrage and a stillbirth prior to his Presidency. During his Presidency the had a boy who died shortly after childbirth, and two more children who survived their infancy, two boys who died young but long after their fathers untimely demsise. Wikipedia, Abraham Lincoln en.wikipedia.org... Wikipedia, John F. Kennedy en.wikipedia.org...

Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.

(Fact) Lincoln was shot @ 10.22pm on Friday April 14, 1865 and dies after going into a coma on Saturday April 15, 1865 Aged 56. JFK was shot @ 12.30pm Friday November 22, 1963 and died that day Aged 46. Wikipedia, Abraham Lincoln en.wikipedia.org... Wikipedia, John F. Kennedy en.wikipedia.org... Times Machine, The New York Times timesmachine.nytimes.com... The Library of Congress, American Memory memory.loc.gov...

Both Presidents were shot in the head.

(Fact) Although Kennedy was first shot in the back before being shot in the head, whereas Lincoln was shot once at point blank range in the head. This is more information that has not been disclosed. Wikipedia, Abraham Lincoln en.wikipedia.org... Wikipedia, John F. Kennedy en.wikipedia.org...

Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.

(Fiction) Lincoln had two secretaries, John J. Nicolay and John M. Hay, he never had a secretary named Kennedy. The Lincoln Institute, Abraham Lincoln's Classroom www.abrahamlincolnsclassroom.org...

Kennedy's Secretary was named Lincoln. (Fact) Evelyn Maurine Norton Lincoln was the personal secretary of Kennedy. Wikipedia, Evelyn Lincoln en.wikipedia.org...

Both were assassinated by Southerners.

(Fact) John Wilkes Booth was born in Maryland (considered a southern state it is the first state of the south as it boarders the mason dixon line) Booth was also a confederate sympathiser. Lee Harvey Oswald was born in New Orleans, also in a southern state. Wikipedia, Abraham Lincoln en.wikipedia.org... Wikipedia, John F. Kennedy en.wikipedia.org... Wikipedia Southern United States en.wikipedia.org... Wikipedia, John Wilkes Booth en.wikipedia.org... Wikipedia, Lee Harvey Oswald en.wikipedia.org...

Both were succeeded by Southerners named Johnson.

(Fact) Andrew Johnson who succeeded Lincon was born in Raleigh, North Carolina, Lyndon Baines Johnson who succeeded Kennedy was born in Stonewall, Texas. Wikipedia, Abraham Lincoln en.wikipedia.org... Wikipedia, John F. Kennedy en.wikipedia.org... Wikipedia, Andrew Johnson en.wikipedia.org... Wikipedia, Lyndon B. Johnson en.wikipedia.org...

Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.

(Fact)Andrew Johnson was born on December 29, 1808. Wikipedia, Andrew Johnson en.wikipedia.org...

Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.

(Fact)Lyndon Baines Johnson was born on August 27, 1908. Wikipedia, Lyndon B. Johnson en.wikipedia.org...

John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln, was born in 1839.

(Fiction) John Wilkes Booth was born on May 10, 1838. Wikipedia, John Wilkes Booth en.wikipedia.org...

Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy, was born in 1939.

(Fact) Lee Harvey Oswald was born on October 18, 1939 Wikipedia, Lee Harvey Oswald en.wikipedia.org...

Both assassins were known by their three names. (Possible Fact)

They are always referred to by all three names, so it should read that both assassins are known by all three names. It is not incredibly uncommon practice to use all names in America, is it really a coincidence? Maybe. Wikipedia, Middle Name en.wikipedia.org...

Both names are composed of fifteen letters.

(Fact) When counted there is fifteen letters in all thre names of each assassin, however this can be seen as a mere coincidence. [No citation needed]

Lincoln was shot at the theater named "Ford."

(Fact) Lincoln was shot in the Ford Theater. Wikipedia, Abraham Lincoln en.wikipedia.org... Wikipedia, John Wilkes Booth en.wikipedia.org...

Kennedy was shot in a car called "Lincoln" made by "Ford."

(Mostley Fact) The design was based on a 1961 Lincoln model 74A convertible, later modified to Secret Service specifications by Ford Motor Company's Advanced Vehicles Group. Wikipedia, SS-100-X en.wikipedia.org...

Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials.

(Fact) Although Booth was shot and killed by a policeman for his crime, which would not be classed as an assassination. Wikipedia, John Wilkes Booth en.wikipedia.org... Wikipedia, Lee Harvey Oswald en.wikipedia.org...

CONTINUED ON NEXT THREAD...............................

CONTINUED....

A week before Lincoln was shot, he was in Monroe, Maryland.

(Possibly) Lincoln was giving speeches, trying to put through policies in order to emancipate the slaves for relocation and Maryland was proving especially difficult, also Lincoln's assasin Booth plotted his assasination after being at one of his speeches the week before. Wikipedia, Abraham Lincoln en.wikipedia.org... Wikipedia, John Wilkes Booth en.wikipedia.org... The Lincoln Institute, Abraham Lincoln's Classroom, Abraham Lincoln and Maryland www.abrahamlincolnsclassroom.org... Institute of Historical Review, The 'Great Emancipator' and the Issue of Race www.ihr.org...

A week before Kennedy was shot, he was with Marilyn Monroe.

(Fiction) Marilyn Monroe died on August 5, 1962 over a year before J F Kennedy's assasination so this would be an impossibility unless however he was seeing her ghost. Wikipedia, Marilyn Monroe en.wikipedia.org...

Lincoln was shot in a theater and the assassin ran to a warehouse...

(Partial Fact) Booth fled the scene and was later tracked to Garrett farm, he was hiding in the tobacco barn (which could be classes as a warehouse/store) and was shot and killed on site by Sergeant Boston Corbett. Wikipedia, Abraham Lincoln en.wikipedia.org... Wikipedia, John Wilkes Booth en.wikipedia.org...

Kennedy was shot from a warehouse and the assassin ran to a theater...

(Partial fact) Oswald shot Kennedy from a book depository which is kind of a warehouse, he then left the depository quite calmly, he boarded a city bus but (probably due to heavy traffic) he requested a transfer from the driver and got off two blocks later, Then took a taxi cab to his home, he left a few minutes later zipping up a different jacket. He was next seen 1.4km southeast of his home, patrolman J D Tippit pulled along side Oswald talking to him through the window, Tippit then got out of his car and was gunned down by 4 shots by Oswald. Oswald was seen fleeing the scene and hiding under a shoe shop doorway alcove, he then proceeded up the road slipping into the Texas Theater without paying, which alerted the clerk who phoned the police. There is masses of information missing from this statement, which concludes that the author possibly had ulterior motives. Wikipedia, John F. Kennedy en.wikipedia.org... Wikipedia, Lee Harvey Oswald en.wikipedia.org...

After a lot of research into both Lincoln and Kennedy, numerous coincidences are apparently factual based. However, after looking harder into the topics and considering the motives of the conspiracy theorists that designed the literature, it would be difficult to ignore the lack of vital information in regards to the distinct differences between both Lincoln and Kennedy that have been conveniently left out, then filled in with the odd fictional heresay, in a possible attempt to trick the reader into initially believing there is more than just mere coincidence at play here. The fact that they were both elected 100 years apart could be accounted to the number of terms of office of other Presidencies that were in between their elections which would in fact lead to an even number regardless.

Sources:
en.wikipedia.org... en.wikipedia.org... timesmachine.nytimes.com... en.wikipedia.org... memory.loc.gov... www.abrahamlincolnsclassroom.org... en.wikipedia.org... en.wikipedia.org... en.wikipedia.org... en.wikipedia.org... en.wikipedia.org... en.wikipedia.org... en.wikipedia.org... www.abrahamlincolnsclassroom.org... www.ihr.org... en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by catgtr33


Pretty cool.
Thanks for taking the time to compile all this information, we don't get to see properly put together threads much anymore.
Some of those I had not heard about before, interesting to say the least.

reply to post by watchitburn


Thank you It was a pleasure gathering all the info for this piece.

" my first reaction was one of awe, my second was to investigate. My aim is to investigate each claim thoroughly in order to either prove or disprove the claims and analyse my findings. "

Thank you, and thank you for sharing what you found out People who take their time to investigate things like this, are the foundations of ATS. So thanks and keep up the good work

Thank you, and thank you for sharing what you found out

People who take their time to investigate things like this, are the foundations of ATS. So thanks and keep up the good work

Thank you for your kind words!

reply to post by catgtr33

A Closer Analytical Look

Not really. You've just posted endless Wikipedia links and provided us with nothing else.

Snopes Lincoln-Kennedy Assassinations

Debunks and sets straight many of the alleged links.

reply to post by catgtr33


Actually ignore my first comment. At least you took the effort to make a thread about something interesting and it's far better than some of the wild nonsense that gets posted on this site these days.

I didn't mean to be rude.

reply to post by catgtr33


I don't think Booth was in the barn, nor do I think he was shot, so I wouldn't call that a "fact". Witnesses, including the person originally in the barn who surrendered said that it was not Booth. Perhaps the "fact" of the matter is controversial, so maybe "possible fact" would be better there, in my view.

reply to post by catgtr33


Many thanks for your work on this. I've seen shorter versions before, but none so thorough, and certainly not taking the trouble to challenge itself!

One thing really puzzles me, though. You've used the word 'conspiracy', and I can see why, but who could possibly conspire to make it all happen, over such a long period of years, and be able to make - even if much of it is only rumour - so many coincidences happen.? If there's a mystery here, it could well be that it's the most remarkable occurrence of synchronicity/coincidence ever.

S & F, naturally.

Duh! How could I forget, or anyone forget for that matter, that there is no believable evidence that Oswald assassinated Kennedy. So toss that in the "fiction" department.

Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by catgtr33

 

Actually ignore my first comment. At least you took the effort to make a thread about something interesting and it's far better than some of the wild nonsense that gets posted on this site these days.

I didn't mean to be rude.

No worries Kram09 I'm not easily offended, we Brits are tough cookies!!! In reference to snoops version I did check that with a very critical eye as it is extremely bias, besides some of their points are actually misinformation and they haven't given any referencing to their statements for anyone to double check their information, snoops is good but not always a totally reliable source. I know wiki is sometimes a little off so I do check their referencing prior to using the site to make sure it is good information. I have also used other sites aside from wiki to come to a conclusion of the facts. Also I did write up the facts and fiction, hence my referencing, but I did give my own analysis in my conclusion at the end.

Originally posted by Snippy23
reply to post by catgtr33

 

Many thanks for your work on this. I've seen shorter versions before, but none so thorough, and certainly not taking the trouble to challenge itself!

One thing really puzzles me, though. You've used the word 'conspiracy', and I can see why, but who could possibly conspire to make it all happen, over such a long period of years, and be able to make - even if much of it is only rumour - so many coincidences happen.? If there's a mystery here, it could well be that it's the most remarkable occurrence of synchronicity/coincidence ever.

Your welcome Snippy23

The reason why I used the word conspiracy is due to the way the original text was written as if there is more than mere coincidence at play, that something may have been decreed by who or whatever to be a numerical synchronism between the two presidents. Some of the occurrences are remarkably similar I agree, however, like I stated in my conclusion at the end, this could be down to two presidencies a century apart which would land on an even number regardless due to presidential terms being 4 8 or 12 years if re-elected for a 2nd or 3rd term unless however a president dies or resigns then the vice president takes over. www.filibustercartoons.com... en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by trysts
Duh! How could I forget, or anyone forget for that matter, that there is no believable evidence that Oswald assassinated Kennedy. So toss that in the "fiction" department.

I have always been aware of rumours that Oswald may not have been the shooter, however all the solid evidence is there to say that he did, such as fleeing from the building, shooting a police officer that confronted him, changing his jacket post assassination as well as generally shifty behaviour. So unless there is any solid evidence against Oswald being the real shooter it has to remain in the (fact) section, as of yet no substantial evidence has come to light to say that he was not, so I would have to disagree as I wrote the thread based of facts not here say. As for Booth, again just here say.

Originally posted by catgtr33

Originally posted by trysts
Duh! How could I forget, or anyone forget for that matter, that there is no believable evidence that Oswald assassinated Kennedy. So toss that in the "fiction" department.

I have always been aware of rumours that Oswald may not have been the shooter, however all the solid evidence is there to say that he did, such as fleeing from the building, shooting a police officer that confronted him, changing his jacket post assassination as well as generally shifty behaviour. So unless there is any solid evidence against Oswald being the real shooter it has to remain in the (fact) section, as of yet no substantial evidence has come to light to say that he was not, so I would have to disagree as I wrote the thread based of facts not here say.

As for Booth, again just here say.

edit on (20/1/1313 by catgtr33 because: Addition

It's probably best to look at the evidence yourself before you refer to Oswald being the assassin as a fact, since Oswald was never on trial for the crime.
*Many people left that building, not just Oswald.
*The only witnesses to say that Oswald shot Tippet(the police officer) did not describe someone who looked like Oswald.
*A man changing his jacket is hardly evidence of being an assassin.
*"...generally shifty behaviour" is just silly. That's not evidence either.

Yes, I have trouble with what you think a "fact" is, catgtr33

Focusing on any specific piece of supporting evidence for a conspiracy theory leaves you unable to see the forest for the tree so to speak.

Lincoln was to the Southern states after the US Civil war as Kennedy was to the Warsaw pact after the Cold war.

The Confederates used a Vigenère cipher during the US Civil war "Come retribution" was one of the pass phrase choices commonly used. The commanding Generals for both the Northern and the Southern troops during the US Civil war trained together at West Point NY.

For those thread jumping, this isn't "sweet Dulce" its "blackwater".

Originally posted by Cauliflower
Focusing on any specific piece of supporting evidence for a conspiracy theory leaves you unable to see the forest for the tree so to speak.

I was focusing on the personal task I had set myself, I am not here to give an extended history lesson, simply to source the truth on a statement someone else wrote, if that is what you wanted to get out of visiting the thread then sorry to dissapoint.

Lincoln was to the Southern states after the US Civil war as Kennedy was to the Warsaw pact after the Cold war.

The Confederates used a Vigenère cipher during the US Civil war "Come retribution" was one of the pass phrase choices commonly used. The commanding Generals for both the Northern and the Southern troops during the US Civil war trained together at West Point NY.

For those thread jumping, this isn't "sweet Dulce" its "blackwater"

.

& your point is......?

It's probably best to look at the evidence yourself before you refer to Oswald being the assassin as a fact, since Oswald was never on trial for the crime.
*Many people left that building, not just Oswald.
*The only witnesses to say that Oswald shot Tippet(the police officer) did not describe someone who looked like Oswald.
*A man changing his jacket is hardly evidence of being an assassin.
*"...generally shifty behaviour" is just silly. That's not evidence either.

Yes, I have trouble with what you think a "fact" is, catgtr33

Despite what I think 'which happens to be the same as you considering all the cover-ups both yours and my governments did and still do' if there is no tangible evidence to prove our suspicions then how can we class Oswald's innocence as fact either. It stinks I know but when things are covered up by the governments it is an impossible nut to crack as they quite literally cover their tracks!

Originally posted by catgtr33

It's probably best to look at the evidence yourself before you refer to Oswald being the assassin as a fact, since Oswald was never on trial for the crime.
*Many people left that building, not just Oswald.
*The only witnesses to say that Oswald shot Tippet(the police officer) did not describe someone who looked like Oswald.
*A man changing his jacket is hardly evidence of being an assassin.
*"...generally shifty behaviour" is just silly. That's not evidence either.

Yes, I have trouble with what you think a "fact" is, catgtr33

Despite what I think 'which happens to be the same as you considering all the cover-ups both yours and my governments did and still do' if there is no tangible evidence to prove our suspicions then how can we class Oswald's innocence as fact either. It stinks I know but when things are covered up by the governments it is an impossible nut to crack as they quite literally cover their tracks!

I think people like Jim D'Eugenio and Mark Lane do have enough evidence to show that Oswald is innocent of this crime. I understand that all the government cover-ups appear to be impossible to sort out, but some of them at least have been and are being investigated constantly. So saying it is a fact that Oswald was an assassin is wrong. The best that could be said is that he is a suspect.
From 1976 to 1978, the HSCA held hearings to investigate the JFK assassination, which is not widely known. Their conclusion?

"The United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) was established in 1976 to investigate the assassinations of John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Jr. and the shooting of Alabama Governor George Wallace. The Committee investigated until 1978 and issued its final report, and concluded that Kennedy was very likely assassinated as a result of a conspiracy".
en.wikipedia.org...

Though that conclusion does not exonerate Oswald having a role in the assassination, their are many investigators who do come to the conclusion that Oswald was indeed a "patsy".
Also, since the ARRB(Assassinations Records Review Board) released many many records in the 1990s, there has been a deluge of new material for review by these investigators which have very recently given the investigators reason to believe that Oswald was innocent.