The sheepdog and the owl.

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posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 11:07 AM
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This is a qoute by LTC (RET) Dave Grossman, author of "On Killing."



“We know that the sheep live in denial; that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids’ schools. But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid’s school. Our children are dozens of times more likely to be killed, and thousands of times more likely to be seriously injured, by school violence than by school fires, but the sheep’s only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their children is just too hard, so they choose the path of denial.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn’t tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, “Baa.”

Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.” – Lt. Col. Grossman



The Owl is just being lazy knowing that he can fly above the fray below.




posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex


The Owl is just being lazy knowing that he can fly above the fray below.


Joining in the barking serves no real purpose. Just useless noise in my view. To stay above the daily madness is not being lazy, but wise.

To the quoted post, the sheepdogs are no heroes. They are what they are for their own selfish desire for control and power...

But, you decide what is right for yourself.
edit on 21-1-2013 by Wanderer112358 because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-1-2013 by Wanderer112358 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 11:37 AM
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The question that the sheepdogs of the world should ask themselves while they act so proud of their role as the protector of the world from violence, evil and war is this. Who do you serve? The sheep? Please, you know that's a lie.

There would be to war or violence without your types of beings.

You server two masters, your own Ego and the "humans" of the metaphor in other words the ruling elite. You can all you want about protecting the sheep, but your motives are much more selfish than you wish to admit. Or who your REAL master is...



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by Wanderer112358
 


You are a good philosopher, I'll give you that. And it was a good story. It was also quite Black & White, which I usually prefer. But I am realistic enough to know that reality is filled with various shades of grey.

At some point, you will be forced to take a stand as things start to affect you personally.

This comes to mind.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

You can only stay above the fray for so long. At some point, you must decide for yourself and take a stand.
Being lazy does not equal being wise.


edit on 21-1-2013 by TDawgRex because: Need more coffee



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by Wanderer112358

There would be to war or violence without your types of beings.



There also would no war or violence if people could just all get along. A pipe dream at best.

I'm sure that there are plenty of folk out there who think they know better than me on how I should live, what to eat and how to live.

If that is your philosophy, well then, I will always fight those who think like this. I can make up my own mind on how I live. I don't need others telling me how to do so.

In this world, there are plenty of Sheep and quite a few Wolves and Sheepdogs.

I'm starting to think that you are not the Owl, but rather the Wolf. If that is the case, I will defend the Sheep with my life so that they may live a peaceable life.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by Wanderer112358
 


You are a good philosopher, I'll give you that. And it was a good story. It was also quite Black & White, which I usually prefer. But I am realistic enough to know that reality is filled with various shades of grey.

At some point, you will be forced to take a stand as things start to affect you personally.

This comes to mind.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

You can only stay above the fray for so long. At some point, you must decide for yourself and take a stand.
Being lazy does not equal being wise.


edit on 21-1-2013 by TDawgRex because: Need more coffee


You made a very good point. Please consider what I am about to say.

In your example, WHO came for those groups? NOT the elite! No! It was the loyal sheepdogs of society that came for those groups! The military, the politicians, the cops, the thugs. Those are who we have to watch out for! Those are the real enemy!

So, while you see the sheepdogs of my metaphor as the guardians of freedom, in truth, they are the "hired hands" that will take it away! And why is this so? FOR THEIR OWN SELFISH DESIRE FOR POWER AND MONEY.

They are the "junkyard dogs" of society and you believe that they are there to protect you. They are there to do others bidding. Without them there, people would just leave each other alone to live in peace.

The problem is that there are SO many sheepdogs in society right now!

Please think about this. No, it is NOT black and white, but it is the truth...



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by Wanderer112358
 


A Dog is trained to do what he does. People on the other hand can...and should think for themselves. I believe that the majority of people only think about their immediate surroundings. Family, Friends, Jobs.

I have been told repeatedly by numerous people throughout my life to stop, "Looking at the Big picture."

Throughout school I was the Anti-Bully Bully. Involved in many fights protecting those who could not, or would not defend themselves.

I am still that way. It is in my nature...I cannot deny it. There will always be Junk-Yard dogs (Truth be told, I've never met a mean one) but they are doing their job as they have been trained.

Do I wish everyone would get along? HELL YES!

But even if we are invaded by aliens, we'll still fight amongst ourselves for whatever reason. That is just human nature.

Please re-read LTC Grossman's words. They do ring true.
edit on 21-1-2013 by TDawgRex because: Flippin' Keyboard!



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by Wanderer112358
 


A Dog is trained to do what he does. People on the other hand can...and should think for themselves. I believe that the majority of people only think about their immediate surroundings. Family, Friends, Jobs.

I have been told repeatedly by numerous people throughout my life to stop, "Looking at the Big picture."

Throughout school I was the Anti-Bully Bully. Involved in many fights protecting those who could not, or would not defend themselves.

I am still that way. It is in my nature...I cannot deny it. There will always be Junk-Yard dogs (Truth be told, I've never met a mean one) but they are doing their job as they have been trained.

Do I wish everyone would get along? HELL YES!

But even if we are invaded by aliens, we'll still fight amongst ourselves for whatever reason. That is just human nature.


Look my friend. I can tell from your posts that you have a good heart, but the reason for me writing my very simplistic metaphor was that I have concern for people that I labeled as the "sheepdogs". Why? Because they not only are controlled by others, but are proud of their loyalty. They admire their master. Not the people/sheep that they are there to protect.

Look around you. Who is the military loyal to? The people? No. The President and the government.

Who is the police loyal to? The people? No. The city/county they work for?

Who are the thugs loyal to? The people? No. The source of control.

Yes, in real life we still need people like this, but look around you. Look how this group is changing. Ironically, I am a military vet of 6 years. I volunteered to join the military. I used to look up to cops. Look at what they are becoming. What is the heavy armor and riot gear for? The bad guys? Hmmm....

I see these groups morphing and it concerns me.

So, in conclusion. This was the reason for this thread. Are ALL cops bad, of course not. Are all soldiers bad? Of course not. BUT, are they under someone else's control but the people? Hell yes...

And are they trained just like you train any animal? Yes. Reward and punishment.

But, you decide.
edit on 21-1-2013 by Wanderer112358 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by Wanderer112358
 


Well, I guess that I am a Sheepdog with no master.

And yes, I'm former miltary myself. I've spent three decades pissing off those in my chain of command.


I like to think that those like me are still needed to protect those who have no clue. And hopefully will never know.

I don't seek rewards, or awards. I just want to do good by my fellow people. Regardless of who they may be.
edit on 21-1-2013 by TDawgRex because: Flippin Keyboard!



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by Wanderer112358
 


Well, I guess that I am a Sheepdog with no master.

And yes, I'm former miltary myself. I've spent three decades pissing off those in my chain of command.


I like to think that those like me are still needed to protect those who have no clue. And hopefully will never know.

I don't seek rewards, or awards. I just want to good by my fellow people. Regardless of who they may be.


Actually, you are needed now more than ever! Who else can tell their "brothers in arms" to question authority and be believed. They would not listen to some liberal like me. My whole purpose in posting this silly little metaphor is to question authority. To get people to see that our forms of control are being undermined. Like our constitution?

These groups in control, like the police and the military have a VERY tough road ahead I'm afraid. Do they follow what the "masters" tell them to do or do they listen to the people and do what is right. THAT is a tough gig right now!!!!

Those people I admire.

Maybe we can simply agree on this point...

Peace
edit on 21-1-2013 by Wanderer112358 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 01:02 PM
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Oh Wanderer, I also loved this story.... although it's a bit more arcane and mysterious to me than the other one.

"Question authority" I get.

Not so much have I questioned authority as I've noticed that authority likes to question me.

What answer could I give authority that would please them? None. They are insatiable.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 01:04 PM
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To the sheepdog with no master...

God does not yoke his Children.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by PnezakYahakotima
Oh Wanderer, I also loved this story.... although it's a bit more arcane and mysterious to me than the other one.

"Question authority" I get.

Not so much have I questioned authority as I've noticed that authority likes to question me.

What answer could I give authority that would please them? None. They are insatiable.


That is because their loyalty is based on Ego and power. That IS insatiable... It corrupts all.

Thank you for finding my simple little stories worth reading.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by Wanderer112358

Actually, you are needed now more than ever! Who else can tell their "brothers in arms" to question authority and be believed. They would not listen to some liberal like me. My whole purpose in posting this silly little metaphor is to question authority. To get people to see that our forms of control are being undermined. Like our constitution?

These groups in control, like the police and the military have a VERY tough road ahead I'm afraid. Do they follow what the "masters" tell them to do or do they listen to the people and do what is right. THAT is a tough gig right now!!!!

Those people I admire.

Maybe we can simply agree on this point...

Peace
edit on 21-1-2013 by Wanderer112358 because: (no reason given)


S&F for that. Every LEO and Soldier I know wrestle with conundrums like this daily.

To do what is right.

Upon my retirement, many of my Friends expressed astonishment.

“No way! You retired? I thought you would be in Leavenworth by now!”
Yep, I did piss off quite a few of my superiors and actually seen quite of few of them go down for various things.

There are quite a few of us good Sheepdogs out there. We just try to stay in the shadows because that's where things go bump in the night.

Even after we retire, we do stay vigilant.

Peace back at you. And I hope it stays that way.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex

Originally posted by Wanderer112358

Actually, you are needed now more than ever! Who else can tell their "brothers in arms" to question authority and be believed. They would not listen to some liberal like me. My whole purpose in posting this silly little metaphor is to question authority. To get people to see that our forms of control are being undermined. Like our constitution?

These groups in control, like the police and the military have a VERY tough road ahead I'm afraid. Do they follow what the "masters" tell them to do or do they listen to the people and do what is right. THAT is a tough gig right now!!!!

Those people I admire.

Maybe we can simply agree on this point...

Peace
edit on 21-1-2013 by Wanderer112358 because: (no reason given)


S&F for that. Every LEO and Soldier I know wrestle with conundrums like this daily.

To do what is right.

Upon my retirement, many of my Friends expressed astonishment.

“No way! You retired? I thought you would be in Leavenworth by now!”
Yep, I did piss off quite a few of my superiors and actually seen quite of few of them go down for various things.

There are quite a few of us good Sheepdogs out there. We just try to stay in the shadows because that's where things go bump in the night.

Even after we retire, we do stay vigilant.

Peace back at you. And I hope it stays that way.


You know what is ironic my friend? We are putting this tremendous burden on poor, mostly uneducated kids right out of school to decide whether they do what they are told or do they listen to their hearts and refuse to obey their commands.

Now that is a tough responsibility! The cops, the bureaucrats and civil servants are facing the same dilemma these days and it will only increase as things fall apart.

How many have the courage to question authority and to believe what their heart tells them is right? I believe few.

But, you and I have to keep bringing this issue up. These kids will be on the front lines. Do you herd your own town neighbors into a camp as you are told, or do you refuse and go to the stockade? Or worse...

As I said, tough job...

My hearts are with them.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 01:41 PM
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Hey Dawg,
I am about to derail my own thread, but may I ask you a question? I was bored the other day and I happened to go the the movies. Not seeing anything worth watching, I decided to watch a movie I knew nothing about. My mistake.

It was called Zero Dark Thirty. Have you seen it? Not only was it about our government breaking laws, ignoring the Constitution and the Geneva Convention, but it was showing military, bureaucrats and CIA "fast trackers" bragging about it.

What really scared me is that people in the audience liked it and approved of the tactics.

Anybody that has seen it, feel free to add your comments.

I found it a perfect example of where this country is headed...



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by Wanderer112358
 


Nope haven't seen it. I always wait until a flick comes out on NetFlix or I can get it through the library. What can I say? I'm frugal.


But that said, even though it is getting all sorts of Oscar nods, everyone I know who saw it did not like it either.

But you must remember that most protrayed in this flick are all actors doing their darnest to be "real".


In reality, most of the people involved in the Spec-Ops community are all Alphas. Make no mistake about it.

As such, they often don't get along one day and are defending each other the next. They can be very forgiving at one moment and quite unforgiving the next, depending upon the circumstances and situation.

And if you screw up in a humorous fashion, they will NEVER let you forget...ever.
At least until the next guy screws up. But whatever you did will still come up from time to time.
edit on 21-1-2013 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by Wanderer112358
You know what is ironic my friend? We are putting this tremendous burden on poor, mostly uneducated kids right out of school to decide whether they do what they are told or do they listen to their hearts and refuse to obey their commands.


To me, education (in the formal sense) is over-rated. Experience trumps that every time. What a individual does with what they have learned though is up to them. My Dad has a Full head of grey hair because I questioned him all...the...time.
Poor guy.


How many have the courage to question authority and to believe what their heart tells them is right? I believe few.


More than you think. sometimes their careers are ruined because of it.


But, you and I have to keep bringing this issue up. These kids will be on the front lines. Do you herd your own town neighbors into a camp as you are told, or do you refuse and go to the stockade? Or worse...


I choose the worse. I would stand up and fight. Once again, it's in my nature. Though I don't think I would last long as I'm starting to get long in the tooth myself. Even though I try to ignore it, I hear the porch calling for this 'ol Dawg. At least from there I can still be a activist.
edit on 21-1-2013 by TDawgRex because: &^%($#@! KEYBOARD! ARRRGH!



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 02:30 PM
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Your post reminded me of this picture...



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by whyamIhere


Your post reminded me of this picture...


Nice!



A thought balloon should be above the Dog. "That Trevor...always stirring up trouble."





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