Understanding Gravity (and more)

Originally posted by BigBrotherDarkness
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

Depends on if you charged the spoon...either way there would be a mass transfer of positive and negative charge in the exchange.

Center of mass and center of gravity is the same thing for the those that need that info; it can be found in many large objects, and the gyroscopic effect of spinning makes it much easier to determine it's location.

Mass Transfer? What are you talking about?

Certain Elements as well as certain materials elementary electron orbits have their outer orbits full thus they are not Magnetic and outer orbits that are not full are magnetic. The material that is Wood is not very conductive and is does not have an ability to to be manetic.

Although Electricity will use wood if need be as a path of least resistance given no other paths that are easier to pass through...you will not see a spoon being lifted by a magnet.

Split Infinity

reply to post by Thought Provoker


The word FORCE is used to describe Gravity in most books and Gravity is even defined as the Weak Force...but if you were to take an advanced course in Cosmology and Physics...you would come to understand that describing Gravity as a Force has been done as we lack the words to describe it in any way that associates understanding other than Force.

In reality...it is not a Force.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Then you're referring to Einstein's "space-time warped by mass causes gravity" model, where planets "fall" towards gravity wells? Warping space requires exerting force on it, pushing it "down." Doesn't matter exert a force to accomplish that? If so, gravitation requires force.

The only other possibility I see is the quantum mechanical model; "Mediator particles like gluons are responsible for the strong force, but gravity has no mediators." Then what is responsible? If work is done, force has to be involved somewhere.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I mean the mass exchange of positively charged electrons between objects. The only difference in a conductor and an insulator is how freely or tightly these materials hang onto their electrons, rubbing insulators causes the electrons to move faster from the generated heat, making them more likely to transfer. No matter what there is an exchange of positively charged electrons in the wooden spoon...rub it a larger exchange, don't rub it smaller exchange still an exchange takes place.

I was making a point that forces can act on a wooden spoon; not attacking your point that originally contained the wooden spoon. So this line of defense concerning the wooden spoon; serves no purpose other than thread derailing. May I suggest getting back on topic?

reply to post by Thought Provoker


As I stated...a FORCE is the interction of Quantum Fields. All Forces are the result of these Quantum Fields that are created through various Matter Interactions. One cannot have Magnetics without Matter.

Gravity also needs Matter as Mass is what creates Gravity. But this created effect we called Gravity has ZERO Quantum Field Interaction which is the definition of a Force.

Gravity is simply Space/Time Geometry.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Thought Provoker

 

As I stated...a FORCE is the interction of Quantum Fields. All Forces are the result of these Quantum Fields that are created through various Matter Interactions. One cannot have Magnetics without Matter.

Gravity also needs Matter as Mass is what creates Gravity. But this created effect we called Gravity has ZERO Quantum Field Interaction which is the definition of a Force.

Gravity is simply Space/Time Geometry.

Split Infinity

I understand what the other person was trying to get at. Splitinfinity is correct, gravitation does not work the same way as other more conventional 'forces'.

However, in both cases there is an effective set of differential equations which could be described as "equations of motion". In a classical force it is the dp/dt = F type of equattions, there's a differneital operator of the "response" on one side and the "input" (force) on the other side.

The Einstein field equations are similar: there is a differential equation relating derivatives of the curvature of space time "on the left" with the input, stress energy tensor, on the right side.

It's very roughly analogous to the way that fields are a consequence of charges in Maxwell's equations.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

The natural geometry of space-time is as flat as flat can be, no wells. Then matter comes along and suddenly there's a well, a depression centered on it... how? Via what mechanism? Using what energy to accomplish the work? If there's a change, something was expended to effect that change. (No, I don't mean "affect.") If it's not quantum fields, what?

reply to post by mbkennel


Bringing up Maxwel...LOL!

Pretty Good!

Split Infinity

reply to post by BigBrotherDarkness


Last time I checked...Electrons were Quantum Particle/Wave Forms that are Massless.

How do you propose that they have mass?

Split Infinity

Originally posted by mbkennel

 

However, in both cases there is an effective set of differential equations which could be described as "equations of motion". In a classical force it is the dp/dt = F type of equattions, there's a differneital operator of the "response" on one side and the "input" (force) on the other side.

Force is the derivative of momentum with respect to time? So force is defined as "whatever it took to make this thing perform that change?" Finally, something I can understand...

But doesn't a stress energy tensor imply a force? (Admission: I really have no idea what a "tensor" is but I've heard the word before... I'm Salieri trying to write Mozart...) If I throw a baseball through a window, it imparts a force on the glass that I imparted to it, a force that has nothing to do with quantum fields... but it's still a force.

Are there perhaps two kinds of force in physics now? One for the quantum world, one for the macro?

reply to post by Thought Provoker


As far as WHY Mass creates GRAVITY...Hell if I knew that I would be a Multi-Billionaire! LOL!

We basically know that the Quantum Particle/Wave Form that is the Higgs-Boson is responsible for giving Protons and Neutrons MASS.

We also know that Mass and especially any Large Celestial Body that contains great mass...will create a Gravity Well which is an Expression of One Dimensionality.

We also know that unlike any Force such as Electromagnetics...Gravitys effect is not specific to just certain Elements and Materials...it effects...EVERYTHING including Energy.

The Holy Grail is the understanding of the UFT or Unified Field Theory which would tell us how Matter and Energy can be interchanged at will. Plus we could build a really cool Star Trek Transporter! LOL!

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Electrons have a measured mass of 9.1094 E-31 kg. It ain't much, but it's there.

reply to post by Thought Provoker


When you throw that Baseball...you are using Biomechanical and Bioelectric Mechanisms to provide such force in the form of Kinetic Energy Transferance.

This means there is Quantum Field Interactions.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

So if I throw the ball straight up in the air, quantum fields put it up there... but they don't bring it down? The energy I imparted is lost completely when it comes to rest before starting down again. So forces imparted by quantum fields can be negated by gravity, but not via force because gravity isn't a quantum field?

If it bonks me on the head, its momentum determines how much force hurts me... but that makes momentum a quantum field force too. There's nothing else to hurt my head, if gravity doesn't...

Maybe I should ask: what makes them think gravity isn't a quantum field?

reply to post by Thought Provoker


That measured mass is the result of Gravitational effect upon the Electron as Gravity will effect ANYTHING...but Electrons are a Virtual Particle that exist within more than one Universal State and so is a Photon.

These Particles are also Wave Forms and if one were to use a few experiments such as the Double Slit experiment for Photons and the Indeterminant Use Experiment for Electrons...we can see and prove they exist in more than one Universal State.

The Photon Experiment shows Photons actually CHOOSING which slit to go through and shows their Light Dispersment in a manner consistant in a Photons ability to have Multiple Wave Functions.

The Electron Experiment proves that a single Electron can both be used as energy to power a motor and at the very same time and same Electron will also GROUND OUT. This shows a single Electron doing two actions and having duel use in One Universal State which PROVES this Quanta is connected to Multiple Universal States.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by Thought Provoker
reply to post by golemina

 

For the record, I haven't cut'n'pasted anything except that one diagram image in the OP. I heard about Velikovsky at least ten years ago, and catastrophism (which made some sense to me) was the only part of his work I looked at. So I replied in that context. I did not just go look him up on Wikipedia. Believe it or don't.

And as I've stated many times, I'm not good enough with math or lab practicals to be able to conceptualize the theory in any other form than how I presented it. I can't come up with equations to describe it, I can't invent experiments to test it, all I have is the hypothesis, and this thread was an attempt to get some help from others who can do the math and practicals, who can test it. Whether it's vacuum energy or Feynman's gravity angels, I just want to figure it out.

Fair enough...

But further on past your response you go on to DIRECTLY equate the perceived EFFECTS of the so-called 'gravitational' force with it's so-called mass (and to boot, you're quoting from Wikipedia. Tsk. Tsk).

Anyhow, anyone that has spent ANY time in field can in a matter of moments come to understand that the 'Newtonian' model of physics is ABSURD.

Keeping in mind that 'Newtonian' physicists attribute the 'source' of the 'gravitational' 'force' to the Earth's mass, it's attraction at any point ON the Earth should be constant, with only the most minute of variations...

And that is absolutely NOT the case!

The 'Scientist' semitards can't solve the problem cuz they are smoking the crack pipe of circular logic and totally ignoring ALL of the EMPIRICAL evidence that so plainly points to the fact that the Earth is ELECTRIC.

For example...

I discussed looking at the CLOUDS...

Not because it's a really awesome pastime...

But it's LIVING evidence, demonstrating their PLASMA charged natures, containing COUNTLESS TONS of water, merrily floating by... mirthfully thumbing it's nose at 'Newtonian' physics and the very notion of 'gravity'...

I CAN get the crayons out and draw you a picture...

reply to post by golemina

Clouds float because they're composed of water droplets (or ice crystals) so small and lightweight that the wind is easily able to keep them from falling, while electrostatic charge keeps them from clumping together. And once they get too dense they turn into rain and do fall, unless updrafts recycle them because those are strong enough to keep the weightier droplets from falling. That electrostatic charge keeps the cloud from becoming too dense too quickly, but it doesn't keep the cloud aloft. That's air resistance keeping them from falling. Buoyancy. Like leaves floating on a river.

reply to post by Thought Provoker


OK...the ball in your hand is comprised of Molecules and Atoms of. Each Atom has an Electron Field around it's Nucleus. The ball has a field...your hand has a field.

Your Hand NEVER REALLY TOUCHES THE BALL...EVER.

In your Hand the Electrons in orbit abound each Atomic Nucleus and thus a Quantum Field will repell the Quantum Field that surrounds every Nucleus of every Atom that is in the Ball.

The Kinetic Energy Transfer that is created as you move your Hand and Arm which is forced into motion by your muscles which contract when sent an elecrical signal and the energy used to contract these Muscles comes from the Chemical reactions that are created by our Body Parts Cells that by blood flow which carries to their Body Part Cells the Oxygen and Carbs needed to fuel these cells as well as provide Oxygen to be the catalist for such Chemical Reactions that allow the use of these Fuels as they are provided by our blood to our Body Parts Cells.

The Burning of these Fuels as well as the use of an Oxygen Catalist creates the Electrical Impulses needed to run our body as a Human is a Bioelectricly Powered Machine. This Electricity being Electrons is part of the Bodies Quantum Field Interaction that creates movement which obtains Kinetic Energy...a Force.

As well the Ball and Hand are repelled from each other by Quantum Fields that are Elecron Orbital Fields. Since Hand and Ball never actually touch...the Hand and Arm movement uses these Quantum Fields to keep both Hand and Ball seperate.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Gravity is simply Space/Time Geometry.

Split Infinity

Yes according to GR, but GR is absolutely and totally wrong

reply to post by Angelic Resurrection


If GR is wrong then there is something else doing exactly what GR is doing and as far as I or anyone else knows...that possible something has never been described.

Split Infinity