Man shopping with Assault Rifle Strapped to his Back at Utah J.C. Penney

reply to post by dave_welch

hey now, a little explanation would be helpful ... i guessed wrong

the car was easy but the arms, by image, i pegged #1 as the 'assault' (fully auto) version.
please give us more than a tease

Originally posted by Evil_Santa
reply to post by Honor93

 

I'm offering the compromise of not having firearms in the hands of people who are emotionally unstable through legal means. Or do you want the recent massacres to continue, because your plan offers nothing to stop the senseless bloodshed with how you're totally avoiding the problem.

*snip*

That isn't a "compromise". There are already laws in place to prevent people who are mentally unstable from legally owning guns. The school shooter did NOT use "legally purchased firearms", either. He stole them from the legal owner. He broke the laws. The laws didn't prevent his actions. More laws would not prevent such actions. These cases are chosen, to inflame people's emotions, and make them feel that this is something new, something that is worse. That simply isn't the case. The statistics prove, every time, that places where more people legally carry guns have far lower crime rates. These shootings don't succeed in places where there are people legally carrying guns. Average citizens with guns prevent crimes, including mass shootings.

reply to post by Honor93


Well the First one is an AR-15, the second is an M-16. M-16's are select fire, meaning they have an option of full auto or burst fire, AR-15's do not.

reply to post by dave_welch


that depends on the ar-15 my neighbor has a three round burst ar-15 that he bought from a local general store. he plays wicked bass too

reply to post by dave_welch

now see, i knew i had a lot to learn
thanks for the identification ... as a non-service person ... i liken gun variety to shoes or hammers.
there are many, for specific purposes and unless you know exacly what you want, they are basically, the same.

most everyone knows the difference between a claw hammer and a sledge hammer, however, as 'hammers', they are the same and can achieve the same goal.
(one possibly better than the other depending on the project)

so, with the above, it's probably no wonder a noob like myself to guns would make such an error. in a SHTF scenario, if i saw both lying on the ground (but could only grab one), i'd probably take #1 without knowing or more importantly, recognizing, the 'power' of #2.

this is what i think is the biggest hangup of the current debates ... ppl really don't know or understand the difference.

Originally posted by rockoperawriter
reply to post by dave_welch

 

that depends on the ar-15 my neighbor has a three round burst ar-15 that he bought from a local general store. he plays wicked bass too

Then it's either an M-16 or an AR-15 with an illegal modification...

reply to post by Honor93


Well, in regards to "power" one is not more powerful than the other. The term "assault rifle" really has nothing to do with the power of the weapon. Both M-16 and AR-15 use the same ammunition. They are both use .223 (NATO 5.56) ammunition. What makes the M-16 an assault rifle is it's selective fire capabilities.

Many people do not even understand the purpose behind the definition of assault rifle and how it applies to burst or auto fire. These weapons were originally termed as such for their use in attacking or defending positions in war time. The ability to lay down a barrage of bullets on the enemy is termed suppressive fire because there is an intimidation factor. In actuality firing in full auto mode reduces the accuracy of a weapon and is mostly a waste of ammo. It does make the enemy seek cover to where other members in your squad can take aim or seek better cover. Every soldier is taught to work together to assault a target there are no Rambo’s that is fiction. Soldiers are also taught to aim and marksmanship is valued over the guy that just lays down a barrage of lead. In my experience the only effective full auto weapons are the ones that are belt feed where you can visually walk the line of fire up to the target. Even with those weapons we are taught to fire in 3 to 5 round bursts to conserve ammo.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by dave_welch

 

now see, i knew i had a lot to learn

thanks for the identification ... as a non-service person ... i liken gun variety to shoes or hammers.
there are many, for specific purposes and unless you know exacly what you want, they are basically, the same.

most everyone knows the difference between a claw hammer and a sledge hammer, however, as 'hammers', they are the same and can achieve the same goal.
(one possibly better than the other depending on the project)

so, with the above, it's probably no wonder a noob like myself to guns would make such an error. in a SHTF scenario, if i saw both lying on the ground (but could only grab one), i'd probably take #1 without knowing or more importantly, recognizing, the 'power' of #2.

this is what i think is the biggest hangup of the current debates ... ppl really don't know or understand the difference.

You could probably figure it out pretty easily. An M-16 has a little switch on the left with selections for safety, semi (one shot at a time), and fully automatic fire. I don't own an AR-15 (sadly), but I would guess that the switch would only have two settings, and not one for full auto. In any case, full auto isn't recommended, unless you had a serious attack, with tons of targets (think swarming zombies), because you can't really aim, and the ammo goes FAST that way.

reply to post by Grimpachi


x2 on that.

Full auto causes the gun barrel to rise under sustained fire, causing you to shoot above your target. In the Navy we never even trained for full auto with the M-4 because it was unnecessary for our purposes. Even with the .50 cal we were trained to fire in 3-5 round bursts.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

thanks for the tip on how to recognize the 'switch' difference.
as a youngin', i was exposed to many fully-auto shooting adventures, but mostly verbally
i did get to see a Tommygun in action but i certainly didn't 'learn' anything about it.

by the time i was interested in guns, the assault ban was well underway and i didn't know anyone who would teach or share such info.

last year i read about a local event i'd like to attend this year if they do it again.
it was a (for the lack of exact info) gathering where owners of fully auto units shared them with the public who wanted the experience.
kinda like gun appreciation day with autos

Originally posted by dave_welch
reply to post by Honor93

 

Well, in regards to "power" one is not more powerful than the other. The term "assault rifle" really has nothing to do with the power of the weapon. Both M-16 and AR-15 use the same ammunition. They are both use .223 (NATO 5.56) ammunition. What makes the M-16 an assault rifle is it's selective fire capabilities.

yeah, i pretty much understand that.
[the mate has been using an SKS as an example to explain some of this to me]

the 'power' statement was because ... i just didn't know how to say it correctly
so, let's just chalk that up to my know-nothing status at this point, k ?

seriously though, what would have been a better word/phrase to use ?
versatile ... capable ... feature ... what descriptive would be more appropriate in conversation (sfc - select fire capability)?
see, i really am paying attention.

reply to post by Grimpachi

thank you
that was quite helpful toward understanding the difference ... now, to be able to translate that to visual. it's kinda hard to recognize one when you've never really seen or touched one.

**********************

woah, i just stumbled across a real eye-opener
been here over 20yrs and never knew this tidbit.

considering the following, i simply cannot understand why ppl are soooo upset over this Utah display

myfox8.com...
Federal figures show there were 30,220 registered fully automatic machine guns in Virginia as of March. Florida had the second-highest total with 29,128, followed by California with 28,774.

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives says there were nearly 500,000 registered machine guns nationally.

but, how can that be ??
in Cali ... under such strict gun control ???
3rd in the nation ... really ?

oh yeah, for those who think some regions don't live with criminals on every corner ...
here's a glimpse ... www.newsmanateearchive.com...

reply to post by mademyself1984


three round burst is legal where i live

reply to post by rockoperawriter


Then it is a legal mod, or maybe it came with burst fire capability, but I'm not sure if AR-15's ever come that way. Every one that I've dealt with (about 10) were semi auto.

reply to post by Honor93


Well, most of those numbers would be from class 3 FFL's that are dealers and have several, in fact, most people that have one machine gun, have several. But, If you compare that number to California's population, it's a pretty small number. Full auto's are legal to own, but only after a pretty strict and very expensive process. In fact, here in Oklahoma, just a few miles from my parent's house, there is a full auto shoot every year. Go to youtube and search Oklahoma Full Auto Shoot if you're interested in it. The thing with full-auto guns is they're very expensive, and pretty impractical for most gun owners, not to mention all the legal hoops you have to jump through.

reply to post by dave_welch


yeah everybody i know owns guns. roughly 2 out of ten own ar-15's. the guy with the three round burst ar got it as is at the general store where i got my rifle. now one thing about my rifle is that it has more range than the ar-15

reply to post by dave_welch


right who needs full auto when three round burst is more accurate

I don't know JCpenneys gun policy but it is our (open carry, concealed carry citizens) responsibility to know where we can do so.

I'd say this guy is a nut no matter the if he is trying to make a political point or not. Fact is it scares people because we don't know the mind of the man with an open carry sidearm, AR-15 strapped to his back and extra mags. Frightening...

Here in Arizona I have the right to open carry a firearm. I have taken advantage of that with my Beretta .40. You get way too much attention doing so and many people get scared..not something I wished to do.

Arizona also has passed a law that any az resident has the right to conceal carry without permit. That is how I carry....every day and I mean every day. It's inside the waistband and unseen. I find that a more reasonable way to interact within society.

Originally posted by kinglizard
I don't know JCpenneys gun policy but it is our (open carry, concealed carry citizens) responsibility to know where we can do so.

I'd say this guy is a nut no matter the if he is trying to make a political point or not. Fact is it scares people because we don't know the mind of the man with an open carry sidearm, AR-15 strapped to his back and extra mags. Frightening...

Here in Arizona I have the right to open carry a firearm. I have taken advantage of that with my Beretta .40. You get way too much attention doing so and many people get scared..not something I wished to do.

Arizona also has passed a law that any az resident has the right to conceal carry without permit. That is how I carry....every day and I mean every day. It's inside the waistband and unseen. I find that a more reasonable way to interact within society.

edit on 1/21/2013 by kinglizard because: (no reason given)

While being true, that the debate over open carry vs. concealed carry, among those immersed in gun culture, has been on-going and can be heated at times, the bottom line is, that there is a time and a place for both!

Concealed carry does nothing to place the burden of decency on potential criminals that one may interact with, on a daily basis. While open carry can send the wrong message to law-abiding citizens who are unfamiliar, or that have an unreasonable fear of firearms!

In the situation of the OP, though, I am afraid that the gentleman in question, considered neither of these points, before strapping up and heading off to the Mall!

SO, Was he right? Or, wrong, in his neglect?

I believe that it is both, and neither! And, the remedy to a similar situation would include more thought on the part of the carrier, and more education on the part of society in general.

It still rings true, that an armed society, is a polite society. But, this only applies to open carry! If OC was abolished, then the criminal is basically playing craps, when deciding to accost a stranger in public. But if, OC was the rule, then the criminal's targets become more easily identified.

It suffices to say, that in either scenario, a higher saturation of armed citizens, is the BEST way to reduce random crimes against the populace. And, proper thought as to how one should carry for the excursion at hand, would be the best approach for all.