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3 of 4 blackboxes found on 911

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posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 11:16 PM
Do you believe the reports that 3 out of 4 blackboxes (actually orange) were recovered after 911, while the government claims this is not the case.
Two men who worked extensively in the wreckage of the World Trade Center claim they helped federal agents find three of the four “black boxes” from the jetliners that struck the towers on 9/11 - contradicting the official account.

Both the independent 9/11 Commission and federal authorities continue to insist that none of the four devices - a cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and flight data recorder (FDR) from the two planes - were ever found in the wreckage.

But New York City firefighter Nicholas DeMasi has written in a recent book -- self-published by several Ground Zero workers -- that he escorted federal agents on an all-terrain vehicle in October 2001 and helped them locate three of the four...

His account is supported by a volunteer, Mike Bellone, whose efforts at Ground Zero have been chronicled in the New York Times and elsewhere. Bellone said assisted DeMasi and the agents and that saw a device that resembling a “black box” in the back of the firefighter’s ATV.

What are they hiding from us?

posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 11:22 PM
Interesting read... Maybe the "black boxes" tell what ACTUALLY happened? I believe the data from the devices would explain alot, if only not for the people affected but for the investigation too (if there really is one...)

posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 11:43 PM
Its one thing for the government to say that they are still studying the blackboxes and aren't releasing the data for security purposes (I would still be angry at this), but its quite another to claim they were never found.

If they are never found, the information can never be shared.

posted on Oct, 28 2004 @ 03:55 AM

Originally posted by infinite8
Its one thing for the government to say that they are still studying the blackboxes and aren't releasing the data for security purposes (I would still be angry at this), but its quite another to claim they were never found.

If they are never found, the information can never be shared.

For security purposes? Okay so why would it be unsafe to release the details?

posted on Oct, 28 2004 @ 04:04 AM

Originally posted by Disaster_Boy

Originally posted by infinite8
Its one thing for the government to say that they are still studying the blackboxes and aren't releasing the data for security purposes (I would still be angry at this), but its quite another to claim they were never found.

If they are never found, the information can never be shared.

For security purposes? Okay so why would it be unsafe to release the details?

posted on Oct, 28 2004 @ 04:09 AM
I would be willing to bet they got shipped out to Germany for analysis like the hard drives from WTC that recorded the last minute surge of transactions through their computers (notice we never heard back from them nor have they published their findings). It's pretty sickening really, what we have here is criminal obstruction of justice, destruction or withholding evidence, and they get away with it under the guises of protecting national security. Also interesting to note here is a guy that worked for air traffic control took the tapes from the ATC conversations of that day and literally 'cut them into shreds and desposited them into seperate trash cans". Amazing but true.

posted on Oct, 28 2004 @ 04:11 AM
It's just another in a long line of unanswered questions that will probably never be answered (at least not for a few years)

This testimony is very interesting indeed. There is only one reason why the goverment would withhold such information from the public. This would reveal who highjacked the plane. Seeing as a whole host of the supposed killers on that day have turned out to be alive, no wonder 'they' don't want people to know the exacte details. The more blurred the facts are the better. . .

posted on Oct, 28 2004 @ 05:57 PM
Twitchy, have you noticed if anyone has published on why there hasn't been any findings to date? Do you know where they were shipped in Germany? I would love to read that.

posted on Oct, 28 2004 @ 07:58 PM
There is a company in Germany that specializes in Blue Laser Data Recovery Technology, whatever the heck that is, it apparently has something to do with being able to recover data from severely damaged magnetic mediums. I will dig around in my research files to see I can't turn it up for you.

Hey never mind, just found it..
Persistent Problems
Of The 9-11 Dogma
By Dr. Stefan G. E. Grossmann

Convar, a company in Pirmasens, Germany, was given over 400 computer hard drives by the FBI to restore them through their blue laser technology. Convar was successful in restoring every single hard drive.

Exclusive to American Free Press
By Christopher Bollyn

No U.S. or foreign agency has announced arrests or developments in the investigation of these trades, the most telling evidence of foreknowledge, Ruppert wrote April 22. The former chief of enforcement at the Securities and Exchange Commission, William Mc Lucas, said regulators would “certainly be able to track down every trade, where the trade cleared, where the trade was directed from.”Experts from the Convar Company in Pirmasens, Germany, are using their “blue laser scanning” technology to retrieve data from the damaged computers of banks, telecommunication companies, and other tenants from the WTC. This technology can even retrieve the original data from hard discs that have been deleted and written over five times.Peter Henschel, director of Convar, said: “not only the volume, but the size of the transactions was far higher than usual for a day like that.” Henschel told AFP that “up to the last moment,” between the time that the first tower was hit until the second tower collapsed, there was an “unusual” increase in trading volume of “between 5 and 10 times the normal volume.” One data recovery expert, Richard Wagner, has estimated that more than $100 million in illegal transactions appeared to have rushed through the WTC computers before and during the disaster.

This is a small portion of a posting on which goes into some creepy details about Convar, this is only a snippet of the entire post but so far I have yet to find a single inaccurate statement. I would simply post a link but I have pulled this from my own research files. The amazing thing about this posting is it actually gets worse if you can believe that...

Post 1245955
(freedom fighter)
01/29/04 04:18 PM

Whatever happened to the WTC HARD-DRIVE recoveries? - Forums powered by Reason and PrincipleLibertyForum
Category: News & Opinion Topic: Crime & Corruption
Synopsis: Interconnections, old Iran-Contra contacts revived
Source: Many - see below
Published: January 29, 2004 Author: My own collection
For Education and Discussion Only. Not for Commercial Use.
Whatever happened to the WTC HARD-DRIVE recoveries?
PIRMASENS, Germany (Reuters) - German computer experts are working round the clock to unlock the truth behind an unexplained surge in
financial transactions made just before two hijacked planes crashed into New York's World Trade Center on September 11.
Were criminals responsible for the sharp rise in credit card transactions that moved through some computer systems at the WTC shortly before the planes hit the twin towers?
Or was it coincidence that unusually large sums of money, perhaps more than $100 million, were rushed through the computers as the disaster unfolded?
A world leader in retrieving data, German-based firm Convar is trying to answer those questions and help credit card companies, telecommunications firms and accountants in New York recover their
records from computer hard drives that have been partially damaged by fire, water or fine dust…. – here
The CONVAR data salvage has made it completely clear that more than $100 million in insider credit card transactions took place in the hours and minutes before the twin towers collapsed. The mainframe computers in the towers processed these transactions; and the credit card data would have been lost forever had it not been for the successful data reconstruction of the CONVAR specialists.
A German company, CONVAR of Pirmasens near the French border, was given more than 400 computer hard drives from the wreckage of the World Trade Center. These are extremely sensitive computer components that went through the collapse of the World Trade Center. Using blue laser technology, CONVAR succeeded in reconstructing all the data from the computer debris.This includes diverse financial data and telecommunication protocols up to a few seconds before the collapse of each tower. (Source: e-mail from CONVAR Germany on October 16, 2003.) The U.S. government’s blatant lie about the allegedly missing black boxes is outright made ludicrous by this fact.
The reconstructed data was given by CONVAR to the FBI. The FBI was held by law to investigate, based on the reconstructed data, who placed the inside transactions. The FBI is doing no such thing. – here
GFP would like to inform, that in June 2002, Ontrack/Convar was aquired by Kroll Inc. (Kroll O'gara Eisenhardt), which has strong ties with the US Government. One of their former employees, Jerome Hauer, organised a security job for ex-FBI anti-terror chief John O'Neill in the Twin Towers, where he died on Sep11th. – here and here
Kroll O’ Gara Eisenhardt is one of the oldest security companies in the United States and, some say, responsible for every U.S. President since the end of WW2. What does an upstanding, powerful company like Kroll do in its spare time? Why it trains local forces in Saudi Arabia, of course!
One partner of Kroll, Cable & Wireless provides training in Counter-Terrorism and Urban Warfare in Saudi Arabia. In August 2001, former Kroll employee, Jerome Hauer, arranged a security job in the Twin Towers for FBI Agent John O’Neill. At the time, O’Neill had been investigating ENRON’s business deals with the Taliban and was subsequently pulled from that investigation. Neither Kroll nor Hauer was asked to testify about this coincidence. – here
Jerry Hauer has been around a bit – Batelle, Dyncorp, SAIC (note DAVID KAY’S (of Iraq WMD fame) MENTION of him – here)
Look at the interesting resume of the president and chief executive officer of Kroll Inc. -- Michael G. Cherkasky --
He is a former chief of the Investigations Division for the New York County District Attorney's Office where he investigated fraud, corruption, money laundering, organized crime figures such as John Gotti, and the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. – here
And look at this interesting history & connections:
Kroll Associates, a security consultant firm, which was renamed
to Kroll Inc. in August 2001, started in New York City in 1972. In December 1997, Kroll merged with armored car manufacturer O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt to form The Kroll-O'Gara Company.
O'Gara is responsible for the security of all US-Presidents since 1945. However the background of Kroll is very interesting, too:
In 1993, Maurice Greenberg's American International Group (AIG ->), became co-owner of the "private spy agency", Kroll Associates, as a result of rescuing Kroll from bankruptcy with a cash infusion. Kroll was notorious during the 1980s as the "CIA of Wall Street" due to the prevalence of former CIA, FBI, Scotland Yard, British secret service and British Special Air Service men Kroll employed for corporate espionage in takeover bids, as well as for destabilization of foreign nations. (See Greenberg,Maurice) Maurice Greenberg was deeply involved in chinese trade in the 80s, where Henry Kissinger was one of his representatives. In the China trade, Greenberg became very close to Shaul Eisenberg, the leader of the Asian section of the Israeli intelligence service Mossad, and agent for the sales of sophisticated military equipment to the Chinese military. Maurice Raymond Greenberg was born in New York City May 4, 1925, the son of Jacob Greenberg and Ada (Rheingold) Greenberg. The young man adopted the nickname "Hank" to make people think of a popular American baseball player with the name, Hank Greenberg. Greenberg served in the U.S. Army in the Korea conflict. He joined the insurance firm, Continental Casualty Co., in 1952. Continental executive J. Milburn Smith recommended Greenberg to the C.V. Starr insurance/spy organization, which made Greenberg its vice president in 1960, its president and CEO in 1967, and its chairman, succeeding Starr, in 1969. From 1988 to 1995, Greenberg was a director of the New York Federal Reserve bank - this branch of the system is the main instrument through which Federal Reserve chiefs and the Bank of England traditionally execute their U.S. political-economic policy. Greenberg was deputy chairman of the New York Fed in 1992 and 1993, and New York Fed chairman in 1994 and 1995. During 1996, while Greenberg was deputy chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations (See Cfr, he chaired the CFR task force on intelligence, which published "Making Intelligence Smarter: The future of U.S. Intelligence." This report mostly served to exhibit Greenberg's access to the intelligence community; but he parlayed it into a nomination by Senator Arlen Specter and others, for Greenberg to be Director of the Cia Greenberg has used his connections to covert intelligence, supranational institutions, private bankers and speculators, and his huge global cash inflow, to shape a unique personal empire. Since 1997, Frank G. Wisner, Jr., has been a board member of Kroll , and is currently Greenberg's Deputy Chairman for External Affairs. Wisner's father was a founder of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, who killed himself over the scandal from his being duped by British-Soviet masterspy Kim Philby. Frank Wisner, Jr., is a director of the George Bush-linked energy giant Enron (a client for whom AIG negotiated payments from Peru over nationalization of Enron operations).
In the early 1990s, Miami-based private investigator Lou Polumbo joined Kroll Associates. According to sources in the industry, Polumbo brought with him a personal history of involvement with the Medallin and other South American narcotics cartels; his business included helping relocate some of the capabilities of these cartels out of Colombia. The deal to bring Polumbo into Kroll was worked out by Avram Shalom, the former head of Israel's Shin Beth secret police. Shalom went to work for Kroll; he had been fired as Shin Beth boss due to a scandalous massacre of Palestinians in the Israel-occupied territories by his Shin Beth agents. – here

posted on Oct, 28 2004 @ 08:58 PM
Nice work, twitchy! Interesting read...

posted on Oct, 31 2004 @ 05:06 PM
Thanks for all of the info Twitchy. Hard to imagine harddrives could survive the collapse, but the government claims the blackboxes didn't. Something smells around here.

posted on Oct, 31 2004 @ 07:09 PM
The government also claims that the only video showing the crash of the AA flight in DC was released and that no other tapes exist. Of course that is a lie as well. They have tapes from a gas station and hotel and now they pretend those don't exist. If they were civilians they would be charged with obstruction of justice and conspiracy to provide support to terrorists. If not perhaps conspiracy to commit acts of terror against the US.

posted on Oct, 31 2004 @ 07:27 PM
LOL why are you believing everything you read on the INTERNET?!

Seriously.... Tell me.

posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 08:55 PM
I can't figure out why the other pentagon tapes can't be shared with the public. What are they hiding? I can't see how that would protect our national security by not airing these tapes unless their release would cause chaos in the public sector.


posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 09:31 PM
The witholding of information is for me at least the main reason I believe there is a HUUUGGGGGEEEE coverup for 9/11.
The Black Boxes on 757 and 767 (actually bright orange), are on the tail of the airplanes and of course they are made to survive the harshest of conditions, explosions, decompresions, compresions to 3500m undersea and heat. Since the 9/11 bogus info began I have always wondered about those black boxes, surelly they must have been recovered but exactly like the tapes from the pentagon they are GONE....

even on the FAA database of air accidents there is no info on those planes, only their registratiuon and the name "highjacked" investigation whatsoever

posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 09:38 PM
Yeah, Pentagon should be packed with cameras, they should release some videos to get rid of all "outrageous conspiracy theories"..

edit bad english as usal

[edit on 9-11-2004 by Kollapse]

posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 02:59 AM
Very good information in there, I always wondered if that surge of transactions was another myth. But its even more revealing to know that a company bought Convar out and thats probably why we havent heard a peep.

So how can they deny the boxes exist when multiple people witnessed their recovery

posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 07:04 AM
they cant

think about it, they gather all this evidence while people are still in "shock mode" and simply cut it up burn in throw it away so we never see it again. its painfully obvious this was a massive cover up from any one who can put even the simplist pizzle together. the strings of missing, ignored, and disregarded evidence just never stop piling up. if you think for one second the main stream media will tell you the truth about these incedents you are a fool plain and simple, they are so intriquently entwined with the consiprators, and so overly excited at the prospects for information in exchange for truth this one whizzed right over their heads. there is not only a smoking gun, they pretty much shot the cannon right in front of your face. the layers of distraction the media globs on seem to spin the majority of folk into a blissful daze of compliance, i for one have had about enough of the lies and trickery, there is no war on terrorism only the fight for hegemony! i dont even know what that word means


posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 09:11 AM
Most people believe the black Boxes are Black, I even heard on TV that those data boxes would be difucult to Spot because if they are black and everythink burned ansd is charred they wont even see or recognize them...!!!

The fight for world domination has no boundaries so 3 measly boxes and some videos wont stop them...

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