Should the US must keep supporting Israel?

This is a very PI question to make . Many may be afraid to be called "nazi" or "racist" to openly discuss this issue. Israel has enough military power to keep his enemies away. It has top notch tanks, helicopters, nukes and aircraft for that purpose. I really don't see many benefits for USA to keep this type of unconditional pampering for a country in constant strife with it's neighbours. If they hate each other so much they should be left to handle their issues by themselves. They deserve each other. Nowadays they are so much alike I can't really tell the difference anymore. The are like M&M's, they come in different colours but they taste much the same. The Middle East has been violent for thousands of years, a behaviour that's not about to change anytime soon

Update: Seems OSB reasons for the 9-11 attack questions one more time what is the benefit for the US to endorse Israel's policies. Would you risk being attacked again for the sake of Israel safety,undermining your own?. I think it's not worth it. This is the MAIN reason why Islam hates the West so much, and has costed hundreds of thousands lives to no avail. It is time to change this for once and for all













[edit on 30-10-2004 by Vladtepes]

Very simply...........yes.

The USA should definitely continue to support Israel. However, if it wants to be seen as a honest broker in the peace process, the U.S. government should also hold Israel accountable as much as the Palestinians as far as efforts to achieve peace and stop the violence are concerned.

Israel's gotta reign in its right-wingers, otherwise the country's going to end up a theocracy just like Iran.

Obviously Israel has more to do with our government supporting them then what our citizens do. It would sure be nice if it wasn't all so secret. Unless we have a major power shift in the US I don't ever see any change happening.

We support Israel in ways you may not be aware of, take a look at this thread I seem to be getting railroaded on... Apparently billions of dollars are of no concern when it comes to this...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I really dont think Israel should support if the Palestinians dont, seeing as the Israeli Lukid Party block the peace process just as much as the Palestinians do. In fact an Israeli PM was murdered by an Israeli, just because he was trying to establish a peace process...

in 1995 an Israeli man named Yigal Amir assassinated the pro peace Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin, claiming Rabin wanted to "give our country to the Arabs," and "We need to be cold-hearted." Shimon Perez was then announced as PM and continued with driving peace alongside the Labor party... Then he was replaced by Sharon and the Lukid Party and everything changed.

Its the right winged facsist Lukid party thats blocking the peace more than anything... sure the palestinians have their part in damaging relations, but Lukid are in a clear position to end the violence, but they dont want to...

I never thought i'd say it, but i applaud Sharon right now for taking some steps to withfraw from Palestinian lands... sure its not all of the land, but its a start.

Monetarily support them, no.
They are grown up now and IMO are no longer in need of a yearly �allowance� from the states. Of course I would be for the US stopping financial aid/support to about 99% of the countries we currently help.


Militarily support them, yes.
At lest continue the �threat� of US military assistance in the event Israel is attacked again on a scale like in �67. I say this because IMO if Israel were again to be attacked overwhelmingly, and it looked like they were definitely going to lose, I believe that they would use all that they have in their nuke arsenal. Allowing things to get bad enough for them to consider using nukes is not something we could let happen. Again all this is just my humble opinion.

Until Israel faces up to it's own responsibility in genuinely creating a durable and real peace with the Palestinians why should anyone bail them out?

IMO there can be and will be no real an lasting peace across the ME until this matter is settled equitably.

(and citing the extreme lunatic fringe who want every Israeli dead is hardly reason not to bother trying to sort this matter out)

They have (by far) the strongest forces in the region and are the sole nuclear power there.

Israel faces a 'terrorist level' problem not a threat of any kind to it's borders/existance as before.

They could and should IMO negotiate an honourable and just settlement that they will actually implement (this time).

That would change everything.

(...and this is hardly western 'liberal' sentiment, many many Israelis feel strongly that this is the only sane path to take - including many in the Israeli military)

Taibunsuu, actually the government of Israel will never become similar to Iran's for a very simple reason. The ruling party HATES observant religious Jews. One doesn't need to look far to figure that out based on the policies of the past few years.

sminkey, I agree with much of what you posted except one small point. While I do agree that it would be nice if the "lunatic fringe" didn't sour the peace process, I believe that you aren't giving them the attention they deserve. It is obvious to me, and to most people that have studied and visited the area that most Palestinians do not fit into that group. But some do. And the some that do unfortunately carry out the terrorist attacks. The same way one could criticize Israel for not following aspects of the peace plans one must also criticize the Palestinian side for not reigning in the terrorists. They have been proven to not only not crack down, but in fact harbor some of them.

My favorite thing to say regarding this issue holds true in this thread as well: If you blame one side for this problem you're ignorant. Both sides are guilty of making things difficult for all of their people there, and things will not improve until they both realize that and move on to a more civilized way of doing things.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
IMO there can be and will be no real an lasting peace across the ME until this matter is settled equitably.
(and citing the extreme lunatic fringe who want every Israeli dead is hardly reason not to bother trying to sort this matter out)

I completely agree. Until the entire situation is dealt with and both sides are equally happy or equally upset (as long as it's equal) it will be the SOS and the violence will continue.
Personally I think Israel will end up having to be the bigger person (so to speak) and give up even more land and re-locate even more settlers in order to make the majority of Palestinians happy and prove that Israel is willing to do what it takes for peace.

In the end, until the lunatic fringe on both sides is either done away with or at least put out to pasture, peace in that part of the ME is just a dream.

At lest continue the �threat� of US military assistance in the event Israel is attacked again on a scale like in �67.

It seems Zionist propaganda/rewriting history is pretty effective. The truth of the matter is that Israel started the 1967 war with a sudden near-simultaneous attack on the air forces of both Egypt & Syria, followed by invasion of the West Bank, then under control of Jordan, and invasions of Egypt and Syria. The UN Security Council demanded a halt to military operations on 6, 7 & 9 June 1967, but Israel kept pushing until it had occupied all of the West Bank, the Syrian Golan Heights and the Egyptian Sinai Peninsula. In resolution 242, The Security Council demanded Israel withdraw from it's conquered territories, but the US has used its veto to block any attempt to enforce this resolution, as well as any attempt to expel Israel from the UN for violating several key clauses of the U N Charter. The US has subsequently used it's veto to block santions against Israel for violating the 1949 Geneva Convention on war crimes and the responsibilities of occupying powers.

The main reason the US is a target of Arab fundies is that it has consistantly enforced the Zionist position that international law does not apply to Israel. Until the US starts to treat everyone as equal before the law, it will get nothing but hatred and "terrorism" as a response to its hypocrisy and continual abetting of Israel's violations of international law.

Originally posted by Djarums
sminkey, I agree with much of what you posted except one small point. While I do agree that it would be nice if the "lunatic fringe" didn't sour the peace process, I believe that you aren't giving them the attention they deserve. It is obvious to me, and to most people that have studied and visited the area that most Palestinians do not fit into that group. But some do. And the some that do unfortunately carry out the terrorist attacks. The same way one could criticize Israel for not following aspects of the peace plans one must also criticize the Palestinian side for not reigning in the terrorists. They have been proven to not only not crack down, but in fact harbor some of them.

- Thank you.

I don't deny Israel the right to defend it's people in the face of such acts of terror, of course.

I just believe that that is not the entire issue and that the matter of the nutter fringe can actually be properly dealt with (rather than merely responded to) if Israel genuinely engages with the Palestinians.

My favorite thing to say regarding this issue holds true in this thread as well: If you blame one side for this problem you're ignorant. Both sides are guilty of making things difficult for all of their people there, and things will not improve until they both realize that and move on to a more civilized way of doing things.

- I heartily agree.

Sadly I think those - on each side - who think that adding more violence to the situation will sort things out are the ones in control for now.....and round and round the tragic cycle goes.

I dont think we should support Israel unless we are also willing to keep them on a leash.

The current way we support them, no. Certainly, protecting their existance, but we must also make sure we sit on them and make them behave, and prevent them from stirring up # and dragging us with them.

Originally posted by Fu Manchu
It seems Zionist propaganda/rewriting history is pretty effective.

Um ok.

Originally posted by Fu Manchu
The truth of the matter is that Israel started the 1967 war with a sudden near-simultaneous attack on the air forces of both Egypt & Syria, followed by invasion of the West Bank, then under control of Jordan, and invasions of Egypt and Syria.

Well actually the truth of the matter was that the surrounding Arab countries were amassing large numbers of troops and machinery on all sides of Israel. Obviously their goal was a multi pronged simultaneous attack and of course to push the Jews into the sea or kill them, which ever came first. Seeing that war was imminent Israel fired the first shot, and I don�t blame them for it.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
I dont think we should support Israel unless we are also willing to keep them on a leash.

The current way we support them, no. Certainly, protecting their existance, but we must also make sure we sit on them and make them behave, and prevent them from stirring up # and dragging us with them.

This, and other posts before that, are exactly to the point.

The scale of the US monetary and legal support makes the situation quite unbalanced.

Israel is already at peace with the palestinians. Israel signed a peace treaty with them in 1994. Oh wait most of you call the palestinian state Jordan. Yes Jordan is the palestinian state. In 1967 Israel conquered Jordanian territory not palestinian territory. Israel is occupying territory they conquered from Jordan. It is very simple just look at any map and you will see that Jordan was the country Israel attacked.

There is no people called Palestinians. The Egyptian terrorist Arafat made the world think there was a people called "palestinians" and in your ignorance you believed him. Arafat is just trying to get himself a country of his own. He cares nothing for the Arab refugees.

The Israelis were a blessing to the Arabs in Judea and Samaria and Gaza until Arafat started the intifada in 1987. Now those territories are blown to Hell because Arafat incited the Arabs to rise up.

Yes there are Arabs who have been living in sour conditions ever since 1947 when the Arabs who invaded Israel told them to leave because they would be promised they could return once the Jews were dead. The problem was the six Arab countries only killed about 1% of the Jews so the Arabs that left couldn't return and the surounding Arab countries wouldn't let them in their countries as citizens.

About 700,000 Jews left Arab lands and went to Israel and instantly were admitted as citizens while the hundreds of thousands of Arabs who left territory conquered by Israelis were not admitted into the Arab countries.

Arab Israeli history in a nutshell

Even the anti-semites can understand these maps

Jordan is Palestine

Arabs refusal to settle refugees

Terorist Arafat has fooled the ignorant into believing he is an honest diplomat

Originally posted by Vladtepes
Should USA must keep supporting Israel?


[edit on 28-10-2004 by Vladtepes]

Perhaps the USA should support the relocation of Israel?.

Just a thought.

Yes Judge just a thought. Lets keep it at that. HAHA......wow!

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
They could and should IMO negotiate an honourable and just settlement that they will actually implement (this time).

That would change everything.

(...and this is hardly western 'liberal' sentiment, many many Israelis feel strongly that this is the only sane path to take - including many in the Israeli military)

The main problem with this "solution" is that the Arabs will never stand for any kind of peace with Israel. We might remember that Arafat promised to cut the hands off Begin, Sadat and Carter for signing the peace accord and we should all remember what happened to Sadat.