Why our World is a Prison Planet

reply to post by colin42


colin42, you said, and I quote:

The same spirits that back stab, cheat and exploit.

You still have not explained what you mean by 'being free'.

*) Yes, the same beings that back stab, cheat and exploit, ...but this time they can do you no harm, ...even if they try, because no-one has bodies. Only bodies can be harmed. That was the whole point of my Opening Post !!!

*) What do I mean by "being free"?

Free from any form of fear.
Free from any form of worry.
Free from responsibility.
Free from obligations.
Free to go where you want to go.
Free to observe what you want to observe.
Free from being tired and exhausted.
Free from hunger and thirst and cold and heat.
Free to interact with, and exchange ideas with whoever you want.
Free from seeking approval.
etc.

may I also add some other "freedoms:"
freedom from being controlled or defined by others.
freedom from being held hostage by your beliefs by others, or their actions.
freedom from being held hostage by the safety of those you care for.....

reply to post by tetra50


Thank you, tetra50

for adding the extra "freedoms",
as you listed in you post above.

Originally posted by QMask
reply to post by colin42

 

colin42, you said, and I quote:

The same spirits that back stab, cheat and exploit.

You still have not explained what you mean by 'being free'.

*) Yes, the same beings that back stab, cheat and exploit, ...but this time they can do you no harm, ...even if they try, because no-one has bodies. Only bodies can be harmed. That was the whole point of my Opening Post !!!

*) What do I mean by "being free"?

Free from any form of fear.
Free from any form of worry.
Free from responsibility.
Free from obligations.
Free to go where you want to go.
Free to observe what you want to observe.
Free from being tired and exhausted.
Free from hunger and thirst and cold and heat.
Free to interact with, and exchange ideas with whoever you want.
Free from seeking approval.
etc.

Funny but I thought many of the religions are about protecting your soul. If this is true it can be damaged. I find little evidence for a spirit and nothing to base an assumption on that it cannot be harmed.

From your list:
You are not free to experience phyical things
No proof that you will not be held responsible, isnt that what hell is about?
If you intend to interact with other spirits there will be responsibilities and obligations
Why would you go anywhere as your limited ability to experience means everywhere is much the same.
Free to observe, not free to partake
Being tired and exhausted can be a pleasure and is yet another thing that will be denied you.
Being hungry, hot, cold and thirsty is a sensation we should all experience as is being warm, cool full and quenched.
I am exchanging ideas with you and do so daily at work and play with many people. I can feel pain when shunned and pleasure when applauded.

In short you are denying the ying but without it there is no yang

Originally posted by tetra50
may I also add some other "freedoms:"
freedom from being controlled or defined by others.
freedom from being held hostage by your beliefs by others, or their actions.
freedom from being held hostage by the safety of those you care for.....

edit on 18-1-2013 by tetra50 because: (no reason given)

You can only be defined by others if you allow them to do so
How can you be held hostage to your beliefs?
I suppose a spirit would not care for anyone so you could be right. Caring for others is a gift I would rather have than never know but I am also free to not give a dam. My choice.

To me there is no such thing as freedom. We have choice and there is consequence. What you and the OP describe is what I see as a hell, a prison that denies choice. A living death.

reply to post by QMask


I saw this thread and had to comment, my first child , when she was about eight, picked up a ,i think it was a jehovah witness booklet that was lying around the bookcase . On the back it had a picture of the planet with bars across it. She brought it to me and asked "Mum why is the world in jail?'. Well i was stunned and did not really know what to say to her. That was about ten years ago ,i don't remember what i said or how i brushed it of, but it has stuck with me. Thats it.cheers Off topic woke up this morn to heaps of smoke and the bushfires are miles away. smoke smoke smoke 1%

reply to post by colin42


colin42,
you make some good points, and I like hearing your perspective.

you say, and I quote:

Free to observe, not free to partake

This is a good point. I will give you this one. Touche.

...But every person must weigh this up against the other benefits (Freedoms) that I (and tetra50) have listed (above).

Being hungry, hot, cold and thirsty is a sensation we should all experience as is being warm, cool full and quenched.

In short you are denying the ying but without it there is no yang

As I said in one of my earlier posts in this thread:

This line of reasoning, is like saying: "I like continuously bumping my head against a brick wall, because it feels so good when I stop."


colin42,
thank you for your contributions so far to my thread.
Much appreciated.

reply to post by QMask
Hey dont thank me its fun and the pleasure is mutual.

As I said in one of my earlier posts in this thread:

This line of reasoning, is like saying: "I like continuously bumping my head against a brick wall, because it feels so good when I stop."

I disagree. I have been hungry and for a long period not just a few days. I value that experience because I can relate when I see it in others. I also appreciated not being hungry.

If you have never felt hunger. Never woke hungry, gone to bed hungry and then woke still hungry you cannot understand it. You have to experience it, observation and imagination is not suffice.

As 1% wrote fire can destroy, kill and burn. It can also warm, comfort, cook and as will happen in Austrailia encourage new life. Pretty hard for 1% and other Austrailians to value at the momnent but it will happen.

I would imagine your minds eye picture of paradise includes flowers. You will experience colour but have no way to know the scent of lavender or the perfume of a rose

So yes having a body that feels pain cold and hunger also means you can feel pleasure, love. Its called being human.

We make our own prisons and paradises and we have to work hard to achieve either. My choice is to try to build a paradise although every now and then I build prison bars.

I disagree.

Competition in modern society is because of capitalism. Capitalism needs rampant competition to work, and it perpetuates our natural competitiveness.

Under capitalism we are forced to compete for "jobs", the way we provide for ourselves. This is not natural competition, but forced because of the artificial scarcity capitalism thrives on. The more scarce resources are, the more we are forced to compete for them, the more profits the capitalists make. Profits are not a measure of technical efficiency...

Profit is not essentially a measure of technical efficiency. It is sometimes argued that the market's "hidden hand" guides enterprises towards the most efficient allocation of resources by bankrupting those failing to respond appropriately to its price signals. According to this argument, resources are inherently scarce and the market provides the best, if not the only, available mechanism for ensuring they are not wasted (which would aggravate scarcity). But the yardstick of "efficiency" used here is not something external to capitalism but intrinsic to it. An enterprise is judged to be "efficient" to the extent that it is profitable.

That means its revenue exceeds its cost. However, this can create the illusion that profits are made in the market--by raising prices to more than cover costs. But capitalists cannot just arbitrarily raise their prices--that could mean losing business to their competitors. In any case, one enterprise's price increase would constitute another's cost increase (insofar as enterprises supply each other with the inputs they require), with the resulting reciprocal losses and gains balancing each other in the long run.

Artificial scarcity

Of course resources are only scarce due to under production, and capitalist control of production. Lack of demand does not mean a lack of need. Demand can drop because people simply are too poor to demand. Capitalism works only for those with the means to demand. Starving children in Africa do not have the economic means to make demands of the market, so the system fails for them.

reply to post by QMask


Very beautiful. I enjoyed reading this and am sorry to say I have not much to contribute other than my thanks for your share and my agreement with much of it.

I am not certain that a 'being' that is entirely nonphysical could exist.. Perhaps a more perfected organism could require less sleep, less food ( or a food source so abnormal to what we are used to that food would not be a problem )..

I think that the human potential can get pretty close to that perfect, yet so few try to push themselves mentally and physically in that regard - and even less begin to push their spirit.. There are alot of occult ways around these limitations but they are definitely still there to deal with..

Thanks for the share, ultimately this is a planet-wide prison ( though much of South America still remains overgrown with plants and unpopulated as of yet ). It's a sad topic to think about, but maybe more painfully sad when someone blindly refuses to recognize this truth of human slavery, I think.

reply to post by QMask


There is also the very real possibility that without a body you could very well no longer exist.

I am goona run with having a body until I have to give it up.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I often wonder how many people will choose existing over not existing, ...no matter what.

Personally, I believe there are states of existence that are much worse than not existing at all.

For example, imagine a prisoner chained to a cold dungeon wall, back in the time of the Middle Ages. These prisoners were often only kept to be tortured with hot irons and the like, until they eventually died. They died of prolonged starvation/dehydration and torture.

Faced with a fate like that, it may actually be better to never have existed in the first place.
I guess some people will disagree with me here.

But think about it: not existing is really not that bad.
It doesn't hurt.
You don't feel hunger or thirst.
You have no memories that haunt you.
And you will have no regrets.
Because you simply don't exist, and you don't even know it !!

Some would argue, this is BLISS.

reply to post by QMask


This is the same thing as having a terminal disease without any hope of recovery and having 6 months to live in extreme pain.

Now I personally would either blow my brains out or preferably take some pills and pass peacefully.

Unfortunately some people of misplaced morality are preventing people in this state from being able to do either.

A person comes to a point where death is preferable to life and I believe that Doctors should be able to prescribe drugs to make ones passing easy.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity
Agreed but that is others taking away your right to choose.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


SplitInfinity,
I agree with you whole-heartedly.

There definitely is "a point where death is preferable to life".

I am all in favour of euthanasia ("mercy killing").

Thank you for your post.

reply to post by colin42


YES...until it is their time to suffer.

Split Infinity

reply to post by QMask


Your Welcome.

I have seen some...very disturbing things.

I have some pent up anger as regards to this issue and it is in my opinion completely INSANE for anyone or group to have any say as far as when a person should decide under terminal conditions when and how they would like to check out.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by QMask
reply to post by DeReK DaRkLy

 

DeReK, you said, and I quote:

I agree that all problems and struggles would be 'solved' without a body to care for.
However, doesn't this sound a little boring? What would we do, just float around for eternity?

Yes, this is a good point. It probably will get boring after a while.
(On the other hand, there could be 7 billion+ other souls/spirit beings to interact with. This could be exiting. Just think of all the permutations, and all the possible games to be played.)

The struggle to survive is what makes the good times seem worthwhile,
and the fear of death is what makes life seem precious.

This line of reasoning, is like saying: "I like continuously bumping my head against a brick wall, because it feels so good when I stop."

In this case, you have to pause, and really evaluate what you are doing.

Here's the thing, while fear of death might make life's lessons more precious, death itself means that the lessons we've learned are going to be lost. What good is hardship and the lessons of life if we just lose them when we die? Others might learn from them and society might preserve them in some way, but some will be lost. And if we have to be forced by the fear of death to learn lessons then isn't that another sign that we're imprisoned here? Sort of like how children are threatened if they don't go to school? And they're threatened because otherwise the efforts of their parents might be wasted. And this matters since things aren't free. So let me get this straight. There's a spiritual realm that sends its spiritual children to this earth to learn. BUT nothing is free there either.

reply to post by colin42


Actually, I agree with your assessment in the last sentence. With some short breaks, my life here has many times led me to question if this were, indeed, hell. Prison is meant to pretty hellacious. Ergo, the assessment.

But you do bring up an important point: the freedom of choice. But what if all your choices are poison, or result in toxicity, of one kind or another? In my experience, this is a place where the more one tries to exemplify certain aspects of character and integrity which are important to them, the more they are manipulated into being, or being perceived as, the opposite.

Another of your points: why would you assume a spirit wouldn't care about other spirits? On the contrary, I think. The caring may even be more authentic, as your relationship to another spirit would have nothing to do with physical needs, desires, or physical appearance. Also, I doubt when we get to a spirit/soul stage there is much ego involved.

As to the "freedoms" I outlined: First, I wasn't talking about being held hostage TO your beliefs, but BY them.
The things I outlined there could easily be turned around by someone, say a clever sadist. Let's say I tell the clever sadist I don't believe they have the right to hurt or restrain me. And let's say they tell me that the only way they can be happy is by doing something like that to someone who doesn't want them to. We want the freedom to pursue our own happiness, right? So am I holding the sadist hostage, or is he holding me hostage? This is a way to be held hostage by your belief, and a way of seeing that freedom for one person can literally be a cage for another.

Originally posted by colin42

Originally posted by tetra50
may I also add some other "freedoms:"
freedom from being controlled or defined by others.
freedom from being held hostage by your beliefs by others, or their actions.
freedom from being held hostage by the safety of those you care for.....

edit on 18-1-2013 by tetra50 because: (no reason given)

You can only be defined by others if you allow them to do so
How can you be held hostage to your beliefs?
I suppose a spirit would not care for anyone so you could be right. Caring for others is a gift I would rather have than never know but I am also free to not give a dam. My choice.

To me there is no such thing as freedom. We have choice and there is consequence. What you and the OP describe is what I see as a hell, a prison that denies choice. A living death.

Also, this: you can only be defined by others if you allow them to, you wrote.
I find this extremely naive, without meaning any offense. There are many ways we are perceived and defined by others, without allowing this at all.