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Madison, Jefferson and the founding fathers are lumped in with Al Qaeda by West Point Think Tank

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posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp
 


The title is still misleading. I see how you came to the conclusion presented in the title, but no where in the article you posted does it mention the founding fathers. I think the information presented in the article stands on its own merit without you having to jump to conclusions about who the think tank is talking about.




posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 04:03 PM
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The quotes make it seem pretty accurate in my eyes.

The guy who said, “Shouldn’t the Combating Terrorism Center be combating radical Islam around the globe instead of perpetuating the left’s myth that right-wingers are terrorists?”

Seems to be pretty anti-Islam in general.

Terrorism doesn't have to be little brown guys in scarves blowing themselves up at your door. Extremism comes in all colors and shape.



anti-federalists “espouse strong convictions regarding the federal government, believing it to be corrupt and tyrannical, with a natural tendency to intrude on individuals’ civil and constitutional rights. Finally, they support civil activism, individual freedoms, and self government. Extremists in the anti-federalist movement direct most their violence against the federal government and its proxies in law enforcement.”



If ATS is a haven for the "far right" then I'd say this is pretty spot on. It sounds like your typical post about the government which is followed by a call to "action" and post about second amendment rights and how they need guns to bring down a tyrannical government.



The far right represents a more extreme version of conservatism, as its political vision is usually justified by the aspiration to restore or preserve values and practices that are part of the idealized historical heritage of the nation or ethnic community.”


again, it seems like a typical post on ATS about how we need to get back to using the constitution that the founding fathers wrote.


I'm not sure how anyone can read the posts here and not think that the article seems pretty spot on. Of course, I can't speak for the actual report by the think tank. Also, trust me, I'm not saying that the people here are al-queda, skinheads, terrorists or whatever. This is just the general impression I get from reading the posts.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by Mayson
 


Tell me what is wrong with "Civil activism"? Civil activism means just that, a peaceable assembly to address grievances. Kind of like OWS before they were infiltrated.

This report is just another straw on the camels back, which will soon break.

We, the People are being set up as the fall guy.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp
 


The title is still misleading.


Wrong!

The very principles of individual liberty heralded by Madison, Jefferson, Adams and the framers of the Constitution and Bill of Rights are demonized by this so called "paper", as "extremist" are cited in the same vein with a broad stroked brush along with skinheads and Al Qaeda.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by Mayson

again, it seems like a typical post on ATS about how we need to get back to using the constitution that the founding fathers wrote.


Yeah, the principles of individual liberty vs. Big Government tyranny, are always a good thing.

They are what allow you to spout your statist garbage.



I'm not sure how anyone can read the posts here and not think that the article seems pretty spot on.


OK, I get it, you hate the principles of individual liberty, for others, but want to keep yours, like most elitist statists do.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp
 


but no where in the article you posted does it mention the founding fathers.


They didn't have to "mention the founding fathers", they demonized the principles of individual liberty that the founding fathers held dearly, and categorized those who hold them dearly as did the founding fathers as "extremists", "backwards thinking" and did so in the same broad stroke as Al Qaeda.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp
 


I know. As I said earlier, I understand how you came to this conclusion. I see nothing wrong with the conclusion either, however you should have put that in your opinion in the op instead of the thread title. The way it looks now, someone browsing the forums sees the thread title and would immediately think that the article specifically mentioned the founding fathers when it clearly doesn't. You are purposely misleading people into clicking and reading your thread which hurts your stance. Then it doesn't help that you attack people who call you out on it.

I am in agreement that you could easily classify the founding fathers under the definition that the think tank came up with. However, not everyone may agree with this sentiment and you are trying to sway their opinion before even reading the article. Bad journalism.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp
 


The way it looks now, someone browsing the forums sees the thread title and would immediately think that the article specifically mentioned the founding fathers when it clearly doesn't.


The title accurately reflects the substance of the article.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp
 


Bad journalism.


I'm not being a journalist.

I'm being a commentarian.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 08:23 PM
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Here is what all the fuss is about, read it for yourself and decide.

I have quoted below, what I can see as the only mention of the subject in the thread title, where it comes up.



3.1.2 – Anti-Federalist Movement: Ideological Foundations

In contrast to the relatively long tradition of the white supremacy racist movement, the anti-federalist movement appeared in full force only in the early to mid-1990s, with the emergence of groups such as the Militia of Montana and the Michigan Militia. Anti-federalism is normally identified in the literature as the “Militia” or “Patriot” movement.

Finally, many of the militias also legitimize their ideological tendencies by referring to the strong role of civilian activism, civilian paramilitary groups, individual freedoms, and self-governing and frontier culture in America’s history and ethos, especially during the Revolutionary War and the expansion to the West. Hence, members of these groups see themselves as the successors of the nation’s founding fathers, and as part of a struggle to restore or preserve what they regard as America’s true identity, values and way of life.

West Point Combating Terrorism Center Report: Understanding America’s Violent Far Right







posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 08:43 PM
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Considering that the Patriot Act and NDAA alone have essentially nullified the 4th through 6th Amendments, the "militias" have a valid point.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 09:02 PM
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The Feds are taking preemptive strikes against the sovereignty of the states. The propaganda to paint militias and their members as zealots with dynamite, will soon hit the airwaves. The militias are being disarmed before the first skirmish begins. And I'm not talking about the neighborhood wannabe militia that meets in a garage every Wednesday night.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
The Feds are taking preemptive strikes against the sovereignty of the states. The propaganda to paint militias and their members as zealots with dynamite, will soon hit the airwaves. The militias are being disarmed before the first skirmish begins. And I'm not talking about the neighborhood wannabe militia that meets in a garage every Wednesday night.


I agree, and it's been a progressing attack since the Clinton years.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


I know that the Cadets at the Point participate in all these discussion groups as a gauge for what the current generation of leaders believe. If this is a reflection of the current meme for a generation I fear for the future of our nation. I really do.

IMO all officers should have to be enlisted for at least two years prior to commissioning.

Not a guarantee of a good officer but at least a man who knows what it’s like at the bottom of the ladder.

I’ll caveat that with the Cadets put up with some BS in their plebe year and the first few weeks of training but after that it’s all pretty much gentleman’s rules - smiles and gentle nudges.

In fairness I have met my fair share of decent West Pointers along with a good many dolts but this level of thinking is bat # level scary.

These people are not living in the realm of reality.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp
 


I think that we all should learn about our home state militias, who the commanding members are, what kind of infrastructural and training they use, and maybe even support them. There have been a number of county sheriffs that have been critical of obamas signing orders and three or four states that have drafted bills to address nullification of further gun regulations in their states. Militia numbers will swell. The writing is on the wall and those paying attention understand what it says.




edit on 18-1-2013 by Witness2008 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp
 


Already posted here.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



Please add further comments to the ongoing discussion in the above linked thread.
Thanks




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