Jesus being God, the Most High, the Almighty, etc..

reply to post by Angle


Is there more than one god? If he's not god then how can he be "a" god?

Originally posted by Angle
reply to post by Akragon

 

He did not claim to be God and he isn't God either. He might be a god and the Son of God.

That is TRUTH...

But not the Merciful.

Though he was merciful just as the one who sent him is...

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Thx for the question, it brought me to an interesting (again) passage of the bible.

John 10

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?


Just for the sake of interest:

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

reply to post by Angle


I like that answer. Thanks for the reply.

reply to post by Akragon


As He is Perfect.

reply to post by Angle

Jesus himself told he was the son of God. Jesus himself said there is only one God. Worship only the Most High he said, did Jesus ask of people to worship himself? Jesus praid to God..

To understand who and what the Son of God is, you have to have a firm grasp on both old and new testaments. In the OT God says he is the Holy One, and the Light, yet the NT says Jesus is.

Jesus didn't ask people to worship him, but he did accept worship many times. Why did he accept worship? Because he is our Creator, the Son of God is who created us.

John 1:1-5

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

The life that is in the Son is the Spirit of God. When God breathed the breath of life into A'dam, that life was God's spirit. This was the Son of God doing this, and it was one of many physical appearences. The Father cannot be seen because he is spirit, what we can see is when he manifests his power, his Glory which is his Light and the Son of God is that manifestation of his Light. This is how Jesus reveals the Father.

We do know that the man Jesus is the Temple of God, that which bears the Father's presence just as was symbolized by the temple in Jerusalem.

John 2:13-21

13 Now the Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 And He found in the temple those who sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers doing business. 15 When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers’ money and overturned the tables. 16 And He said to those who sold doves, “Take these things away! Do not make My Father’s house a house of merchandise!” 17 Then His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for Your house has eaten Me up.”

18 So the Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?”

19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”

21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.

The Ark of the Covenant was a future vision of Christ portrayed in the ordinary red acacia wood covered by gold symbolizing the ordinary man overlaid by Divinity. The Ark was the specific vessel God's presence was throned upon and in Israel's trials and battles they carried it with them where they went which is yet another prophetic vision of Shavuot being fulfilled which became Pentecost when the Lord's presence (Spirit) came to inhabit those whom served him and believed in him.

John 14:15-18

15 “If you love Me, keep[d] My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Jesus is the Lord and he is the Holy One, and even the prophets testified of him.

Isaiah 43:1-3

1 But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, O Jacob,
And He who formed you, O Israel:
“Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by your name;
You are Mine.
2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you.
When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned,
Nor shall the flame scorch you.
3 For I am the Lord your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
I gave Egypt for your ransom,
Ethiopia and Seba in your place.

Isaiah 44:6-8

6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
7 And who can proclaim as I do?
Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me,
Since I appointed the ancient people.
And the things that are coming and shall come,
Let them show these to them.
8 Do not fear, nor be afraid;
Have I not told you from that time, and declared it?
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.’”

He is the Holy One. Both Father and Son speaking here in the book of Isaiah, claiming to be the First and the Last which is in Greek, the Alpha and Omega and in Hebrew the Aleph and the Tav:

Mark 1: 23-24

23 Now there was a man in their synagogue with an unclean spirit. And he cried out, 24 saying, “Let us alone! What have we to do with You, Jesus of Nazareth? Did You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!”

Even the demons feared him.

Revelation 1:8 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 21:5-8

5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Jesus is the Temple of God and this is how they share the same throne.

Revelation 21:22-23

The Glory of the New Jerusalem

22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.

Thank you Lonewolf19792000 for your contribution.

Somehow it is not yet clear to me. Do you think Jesus = God? I'd say Jesus has similarities but is not The Most High. What is your opinion on this exactly.

I couldn't really conclude out of your post.

Again, sincerely thank you for your interest and contribution.

Originally posted by Angle


I have heard of claims people make that Jesus is God himself.

I, myself, do not believe this to be true. Where do I get this belief?

Jesus himself told he was the son of God. Jesus himself said there is only one God. Worship only the Most High he said, did Jesus ask of people to worship himself? Jesus praid to God..

These are my arguments, I can come up with more..

A circular arguement unanswerable; as if trying prove you exist as a child of God. You realize your name? Angle is a sacred identifier: as in Angel in Masonic Geometrical Truths/terms.

Originally posted by Angle
Thank you Lonewolf19792000 for your contribution.

Somehow it is not yet clear to me. Do you think Jesus = God? I'd say Jesus has similarities but is not The Most High. What is your opinion on this exactly.

I couldn't really conclude out of your post.

Again, sincerely thank you for your interest and contribution.

I know you didn't ask me, but I felt as if I should contribute again.

In my opinion, the line of power and authority falls like this:
Father > Jesus
Jesus receives his authority from Father. If Father wasn't higher in power and authority, Jesus wouldn't have to receive authority from Father.

Jesus prayed to Father.

Although Jesus said that he and the Father are one, the traditionalists thought Jesus was being blasphemous by declaring divinity and himself as equal to God, when in reality, the traditionalists had NO Idea of Jesus was actually saying.

In my life, my dad has always told me that I am a part of him and the reason being is because I am of his flesh and blood. I always disliked when he said that because I always thought that statement postulated that he "loves" me more than my step brother solely because I am biologically part of him.

Anyways, I apply this thought process to the nature of God and Jesus. What is a son? A son is a part of the father because he comes from the father.

This being said, Father is a spirit. Personally, I came to the conclusion that Jesus's spirit is a fragment of Father's spirit, just like how my DNA is derived from my dad's DNA. Jesus's spirit is completely different from mankinds. Of course, this is only a theory and has yet to be confirmed to my knowledge.

Is Jesus God? Technically, I'd say yes, however, Jesus and Father are two separate beings/entities.

reply to post by DelayedChristmas


Yes, it's like saying table and chair are one when one is talking about having a meal, but they are two different things in unity. I am not intented in making Jesus look less than he really is.

Originally posted by Angle
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

Yes, it's like saying table and chair are one when one is talking about having a meal, but they are two different things in unity. I am not intented in making Jesus look less than he really is.

edit on 26-1-2013 by Angle because: making things clear for readers.

Neither am I as I had made that mistake in the past. I regrettably said to someone that Jesus wasn't perfect; how wrong I was is unfathomable. I personally don't like it when people regard Jesus higher than Father because I believe all credit goes to Father... But if one honors the Son, one honors the Father subsequently so all's good.

Originally posted by Angle
Thank you Lonewolf19792000 for your contribution.

Somehow it is not yet clear to me. Do you think Jesus = God? I'd say Jesus has similarities but is not The Most High. What is your opinion on this exactly.

I couldn't really conclude out of your post.

Again, sincerely thank you for your interest and contribution.

The man called Jesus is the physical manifestation of the Father, specifically his Glory or Power. Jesus is as much a part of the Father, as our children are a part of us. Is he the Most High? The question to that my friend, is what the OT and NT both answer.

Think of it like this. There are some toys on the bottom of a kiddie pool, and some toddlers want me to retrieve the toys for them, so i stick my arm in the water and i grab the toys. It's my hand that has hold of the toys, but I am the one grabbing them. When i hand the toys to the toddlers, i do not say "here my hand grabbed them for you", instead i take ownership of the deed because i am who retrieved the toys so i say "here, i retrieved the toys for you, here they are" and i give the toys to them.

Father and Son are inseperable. We can see the hebrew symbolism all throughout the old testament played out, in the Ark of the Covenant, the wooden red acacia wood overlaid by the gold symbolizing the man overlaid by Divinity.

It was the Son of God who created Adam, and it was the Son of God who stood with Moses on Mt. Sinai the day he gave Moses the Law, The OT scriptures speak constantly of the Savior, who is God, who is the Almighty, and who is Yahveh and who is also the Most High. How do we know these things? Because Jesus said those scriptures were about him, that Moses wrote about him. Moses wrote about our Creator. I encourage you to do some work in regards to the Memra (Word) and what the targums have to say about him but i'll help point you in the direction.

John 5:31-47

31 “If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true. 32 There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true. 33 You have sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. 34 Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved. 35 He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

If at this point none had ever seen the Father, who was the one claiming to be God all in the OT? Here Jesus is saying Moses wrote about him.

John 8:54-59

54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your[m] God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple,[n] going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

The jews understood who Jesus was claiming to be, thats why they were trying to kill him.

John 10:22-33

22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

Renewed Efforts to Stone Jesus
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”

33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

So you see, the jews back then clearly understood what Jesus was saying, you can tell by their reaction. The jews worshipped the Most High, when they refer to God that is who they speak about.

I can also point you out to read Isaiah 6 which ties into John 12, and Isaiah 43, 44, 45, Revelation 1, Revelation 21, Zechariah 4 which ties into Revelation 11.

edit on 6-2-2013 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


We must come to a conclusion, the answer to the question.


I'll ask another question. God is the first and the last. Is jesus the first and the last?

The answer tells us doesn't it.

Originally posted by Angle
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

We must come to a conclusion, the answer to the question.


I'll ask another question. God is the first and the last. Is jesus the first and the last?

The answer tells us doesn't it.

Between the OT and NT in the books of Isaiah and Revelation Jesus is the first and the last and he says it himself. God makes it a habit of being the first and last in all things. Being crucified for the sins of the world fits right under that. He's first and last for many reasons. First and last and only God, first and last sacrifice for the sins of the world etc. Isaiah actually saw him sitting on his throne in heaven in Isaiah 6 and this was mentioned in John 12.