Jesus being God, the Most High, the Almighty, etc..

Originally posted by DaphneApollo
This is just my opinion, but God came down into human form as Christ and as flesh is not Holy, nothing unholy can enter Heaven, this is why he stated " Why call me perfect, only one is perfect and that is God" and would be son of man as he was flesh also.

God is Holy and we are not because we are flesh and blood, but our souls come from God, we are the real extra -terrestrials.

We're, none of us, are from here.

The Father is the Great I AM That I AM and he does as He wishes. He is everywhere and what he wants to be.

But, like others here, I am just as confused on the matter as you all are. Indeed, was Jesus GOD?

edit on 18-1-2013 by DaphneApollo because: (no reason given)

Jesus was talking to himself literally. Perfection (is me because I am god) can only be God. Flesh and bone cannot enter the higher dimensions so in this the revelation is true as it is too dense; probably why it is unholy because gross body flesh carries too heavy a vibration; as in residing in such a low frequency as to be contaminated or untrustworthy. Completely misunderstood.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Deetermined

 

There are lots of people under 20 who actively oppose the notion of a god. Do they get in? If everyone under 20 is saved then I assume they will be saved as well. Again, the question is: what's the point of faith in this case? (rhetorical question)

Are these children of the metaphysical descriptive: Crystaline, Violet, etc. These children are born into a much higher frequency than those born say in the 1400's. If I were to appear to Nostrodamus, I would look to him as a glowing blue light form. I am saying that children being born now understand there is no need for a God Matrix. They are here to change the paradym whether they know it or not, just by existing on this Earth will do it- they are the ones holding no Karma glue stickiness recycle. I've always thought the concept of recycling was a metaphor, a hidden nod to what is actually occuring regarding the cleaning up; the banishment of Karma.

Originally posted by Angle


I have heard of claims people make that Jesus is God himself.

I, myself, do not believe this to be true. Where do I get this belief?

Jesus himself told he was the son of God. Jesus himself said there is only one God. Worship only the Most High he said, did Jesus ask of people to worship himself? Jesus praid to God..

These are my arguments, I can come up with more..

This paragraph of 1 Corinthians 15 tells you the relationship.

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

reply to post by Angle


Just for fun let me point out that you are playing with infinity. Take away a trillion years from infinity and what is the total? Infinity. Infinity can't be decreased or diminished.

That said, if god gave something of himself in order to create Jesus, is he less of a god? No. That 'something' he gave of himself is still a part of him. So, if god is the father, then Jesus is god.

I know, I know, kinda trippy ain't it.

I've seen this one brought up in debates.

Matthew 27:45-46

45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

I am not making a case. I personally just believe Jesus was a compassionate dude, and if he was God he was so only insofar as we are all God.

The way many churches i have been to teach it is that jesus is god, god is god
and the holy spirit is also god, but they are also one, and three at the same time,
the idea is suppose to be that he is all powerful so he can do that, but as always
the story is ridiculous and muddled, those who supposedly wrote the books
had their own personal goals then those who translated and copied those writings
over and over changed things here and there, whole parts were removed and
added, things that didn't make sense at all were edited to make a little more sense.....

It really is a flawed book that lacks the ability to properly convey a message that
is the most important thing any human could know, if it were true that is......
this is another reason i find it relatively easy to dismiss the bible as just another
holy book, if god did write it with the intention of saving us all, then he did a
mighty poor job of making it understandable, and if its written literally then
he gave some seriously immoral commands and laws.........

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

C'mon people, you can read right.

The quote EnochWasRight shared definetly shows insight in the matter:

1. Jesus hands over the kingdom to God the Father.
2. God put everything under Jesus' feet.
3. The Son himself will be made subject to God.

One can't put himself subject to himself won't he, that would be like .. schizophrenic?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Angle

 

I think Jesus is the physical manifestation of God and the Holy Spirit.

I say this isn't true either.

+ to the others, about evil.

It are the humans that are deceived to perform evil. You say destroy evil. It is up to us, we could've destroyed evil by not acccompagnying it anymore. To many let in with it. There is a deceiver and tempter to make us do evil. Evil comes from the hands of man. Any questions?

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
I've seen this one brought up in debates.

Matthew 27:45-46

45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

I am not making a case. I personally just believe Jesus was a compassionate dude, and if he was God he was so only insofar as we are all God.

In Matthew 27:46, Jesus was quoting Psalm 22 to let everyone know that he was fulfilling the scripture there.

Jesus said he came to fulfill the scriptures about him and the law.

I feel good about this thread. Seems like most agree, not? I don't know who believed Jesus was God himself. I think we made clear from scripture that Jesus is not God Himself, isn't He.

Thx for your participation. You were a great debategroup.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Angle

 

Not exactly, if you think about it there are different levels of consciousness, Jesus was at the top, he reached enlightenment. Some people are at the bottom and some in the middle and others all in-between. Since this is true and people of different levels of consciousness coexist together then many states of consciousness can and are experienced at one time, though your perspective is unique to everyone else. This is how god experiences himself, in my opinion, through us. Hopefully that makes sense.

Anyways, I do believe Jesus was god, but he isn't the only one who is, we all are because we all have life.

If we are talking about ENLIGHTMENT as the feeling of oneness with something more, the cap, the caress from things that cannot be seen with 3D senses but can be felt, activation of crown chakra then do not make such a big deal out of it. It is a tool and you will be able to notice things like synchronicity.

Maybe Jesus was a really good manifestor and I bet it took a long time evolving to that state of being. But we all have our own unique talent don't we even if many do not yet know what they are good at. It is not like Jesus is suddenly gonna appear and fix everything by just being here on his own. I wish he could because it would make it so much easier .

Evolving earth has always been a group effort and all the little things done with the butterfly effect that are done by nameless people all around the world everyday.

Another ONE who fell to help:

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Deetermined

 

God has had at least 6,000 years (if you are a creationist) to get rid of evil with all the power in the world at his disposal, why isn't it already defeated? All god has to do his snap his fingers and evil would be gone just like that. So, why does he decide to wait for all these people to suffer throughout history to do something he could have done from the start? Does he want us to suffer or can he not stop evil?

Even if this place from my point of view is a insane dualistic hellhole it does has it purpose. You cannot believe that the blessed ONES would be able to handle all humanity in their mist as equals on that level of being as the humans are now. The souls of all humans would have destroyed everything with their small minded ideals of what is and made even the blessed ONES dualistic and ego demonic due to their influence.

Some souls cannot enter those places yet because entering it in their current form would spread the mental dualistic disease and that is why earth is quarantined and why god is sending so many souls that have the same outlook and soul evolutionary level here. If this place was meant to be perfect then god could have only allowed blessed ONES to be born here. Maybe that is the plan of what is to come to give humanity a true chance to evolve to the next level of social understanding.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
I've seen this one brought up in debates.

Matthew 27:45-46

45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

I am not making a case. I personally just believe Jesus was a compassionate dude, and if he was God he was so only insofar as we are all God.

I have a theory there. Temporary loss of sense of the cap on the head due to the body exhaustion and loss of the feeling of love/oneness from the other side?

reply to post by Angle

C'mon people, you can read right.

The quote EnochWasRight shared definetly shows insight in the matter:

1. Jesus hands over the kingdom to God the Father.
2. God put everything under Jesus' feet.
3. The Son himself will be made subject to God.

One can't put himself subject to himself won't he, that would be like .. schizophrenic?

I know this is difficult to understand, that's why many different scriptures need to be taken into consideration.

Yes, as long as Jesus (the second person of the Trinity) exists, he will always be subject to God.

When God becomes "all in all", there will no longer be a need for Jesus to be the Mediator between man and God or the Holy Spirit between man and God. This is why the Bible tells us that when the eternal kingdom (New Jerusalem) is established with everyone in it, that there will be one God with one name.

If you read Revelation, chapters 20, 21 &22, you'll notice that Jesus Christ is only mentioned during the Millennial period (1,000 year reign on earth) and then when the new heaven (New Jerusalem) comes down from heaven, that Jesus is now referred to as "the Lamb", not Jesus. The name Jesus isn't mentioned again until after John's vision of heaven is over and Jesus tells him what the vision meant. Jesus said that he had sent "mine angel" to deliver his message. That angel told John that Jesus was "I am Alpha and Omega".

In Revelation 20, everyone will stand before God with the "book of life" and they will be judged based on what's written in that book. Revelation 21:27 refers to the book of life as the "Lamb's book of life". Jesus was/is the Word and the book of life. We know according to John 1:1-4, that from the very beginning that the Word was with God and the Word WAS God. Without the Word, there is no life.

Regardless of whether people believe that Jesus is God or not, Jesus was given a name above all other names and given authority over heaven and earth so that every knee should bow to him, whether they be humans, angels or demons.

Philippians 2:9-11

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

We know that all of the angels of God will worship the Son...

Hebrews 1:1-6

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Hebrews 1:2 above also shows us that it was BY Jesus that he "made the worlds".

John 1:3 and John 1:10 tells us these things again...

John 1:3 and 1:10

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Jesus is the Lamb. God and the Lamb share the throne of heaven in Revelation 20, 21 & 22. These chapters also tell us that we will worship "him", not "them". They are one. They will have one name.

Mark 12:29

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Originally posted by Angle
I have heard of claims people make that Jesus is God himself.

Jesus is God Incarnate. That's not a 'claim people make'. That's straight from scripture.

Of course, people can make scripture state whatever they want. They can decide only to look at the bible quotes showing Jesus to be fully human. They can decide only to look at the bible quotes showing Jesus to be fully God. But when you see them all together, in context, it is clear that, according to scripture, Jesus is True God and True Man. Fully both.

Genesis 1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the word was God.

And then we have John 1; The word became flesh, which was Jesus.

Logic would tell us Jesus is God. At least, Jesus is Lord.

I already said that, and I still didn't understand. I'm sorry folks. blah..

No more pondering on it, just believe Jesus is God. This thread has changed my view, thx for the input all!

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Out of your post, I got that the Holy Trinity.. must be a Trinity of three Holy things. Take whatever holy things you want and you can make trinities, quadrupilities..

reply to post by Angle


1 John 5:7

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Originally posted by Angle


I have heard of claims people make that Jesus is God himself.

I, myself, do not believe this to be true. Where do I get this belief?

Jesus himself told he was the son of God. Jesus himself said there is only one God. Worship only the Most High he said, did Jesus ask of people to worship himself? Jesus praid to God..

These are my arguments, I can come up with more..

This debate, the Arian controversy, was basically introduced in the Council of Nicaea in 325.

The Arian controversy was a Christological dispute that began in Alexandria between the followers of Arius (the Arians) and the followers of St. Alexander of Alexandria (now known as Homoousians). Alexander and his followers believed that the Son was co-eternal with the Father, and divine in just the same sense that the Father is. The Arians believed that the Father's divinity was greater than the Son's, that the Son had a beginning, that he shared neither the eternity nor the true divinity of the Father, but was rather the very first and the most perfect of God's creatures.[36]

en.wikipedia.org...

Personally, I like Arius's take on the subject.

Arius appealed to Scripture, quoting verses such as John 14:28: "the Father is greater than I". And also Colossians 1:15: "the firstborn of all creation." Thus, Arius insisted that the Father's Divinity was greater than the Son's, and that the Son was under God the Father, and not co-equal or co-eternal with Him.

en.wikipedia.org...

This is Alexander's reasoning:

Alexander and the Nicene fathers countered the Arians' argument, saying that the Father's fatherhood, like all of his attributes, is eternal. Thus, the Father was always a father, and that the Son, therefore, always existed with him. The Nicene fathers believed that to follow the Arian view destroyed the unity of the Godhead, and made the Son unequal to the Father, in contravention of the Scriptures ("I and the Father are one"; John 10:30). Further on it says "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me"; John 17:21.

en.wikipedia.org...

My opinion is the correct answer is a combination of the two opposing sides.

Another opinion is that we can see who was CLOSER to what is the truth by the actions of those who participated in that event. It is heavily said that St. Nicholas of Myra walked up across the room while Arius was speaking and slapped him across the face, lol.

reply to post by Akragon


He did not claim to be God and he isn't God either. He might be a god and the Son of God. But not the Merciful.