Originally posted by Trexter Ziam

Completely untrue. It may be the way it is "supposed to be" ... but, they DO ask non-Masons. Every non-Mason, white male I know has been asked, one in particular is asked repeatedly on almost a weekly basis. It's like a phone solicitor that just won't take "NO" for an answer except these males are in different states and the Masons asking are not associated directly with each other.

Then I would strongly recommend you contact your state's Grand Lodge and apprise them of this and the city/town you live in so that they may correct this impertinent behaviour. It shouldn't be happening (if indeed it is happening)

Fitz

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam

Completely untrue. It may be the way it is "supposed to be" ... but, they DO ask non-Masons. Every non-Mason, white male I know has been asked, one in particular is asked repeatedly on almost a weekly basis. It's like a phone solicitor that just won't take "NO" for an answer except these males are in different states and the Masons asking are not associated directly with each other.

Then I would strongly recommend you contact your state's Grand Lodge and apprise them of this and the city/town you live in so that they may correct this impertinent behaviour. It shouldn't be happening (if indeed it is happening)

Fitz

In my experience lots of people claim that masons are just driving them crazy issuing invitations, especially on the internet. I have no doubt that occasionally some mason might break the tradition and formally invite someone, but the stories are so common on the internet you'd think we were sending out custom engraved invitation to half the population. I used to look into these stories some years ago, and EVERY TIME what I found was either (1) upon further inspection the person was not telling the truth because they thought by claiming to be invited they were somehow more worthy to talk about masonry or (2) the invitations are real but coming from non-masonic groups that people seem to think have some connection to freemasonry (moose lodges, or people claiming to be masons who arent recognized).

Well I am staying at my wifes parents tonight and her father not long ago came in from his funny handshake brigade meeting.

We were watching Ancient Aliens, and I was surprised to hear him say God was an alien, as were the angels, he seemed quite sincere in his statement.


This is a guy who is a regular church goer........so I have no idea what Free Masonry is about.

I just downloaded Zeitgeist for him, said he might enjoy it....

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by kudegras
I was offered a chance to be nominated back in the 90's but I was too busy at the time.
I kinda wish I had of now.

Well, considering Freemasonry doesn't recruit, the only way to join is if you ask to join. Nobody's going to seek you out and invite you... you have to come to us.

Completely untrue. It may be the way it is "supposed to be" ... but, they DO ask non-Masons. Every non-Mason, white male I know has been asked, one in particular is asked repeatedly on almost a weekly basis. It's like a phone solicitor that just won't take "NO" for an answer except these males are in different states and the Masons asking are not associated directly with each other.

So can you confirm to me that you are stating that masons from different states in the country (I assume this is the US you are referring to) who are not connected with each other are calling this white male and asking him to join? So this white male is in State A, and is getting phone calls from masons in States B, C, and D asking him to join?

Originally posted by thelongjourney
1. I didn't say anything that contradicts this requirement.
2. Glad we agree.
3. I think you didn't quite read or comprehend what I stated, or this is sarcasm and I am missing it.

1. You said in the OP:

(or no way at all, for atheists).

But, Atheists are not allowed.

3. No sarcasm. There are two main different types of Mason. One type started allowing black people to join within the last decade or two - and the other kind left it up to the lodge's discretion.

I'm talking about the real Masonic Lodge, not the black Prince Hall and other lollipop substitutions like Eastern Star for women (who aren't even ALLOWED their own meetings without a Mason male watching over them), and their junior groups.

The local lodge, the kind that can choose whether or not to discriminate - does. No blacks allowed.
The other type also has a local lodge and they did allow a black man, so, almost all of the white males bailed out.

Originally posted by thelongjourney

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam

Completely untrue. It may be the way it is "supposed to be" ... but, they DO ask non-Masons. Every non-Mason, white male I know has been asked, one in particular is asked repeatedly on almost a weekly basis. It's like a phone solicitor that just won't take "NO" for an answer except these males are in different states and the Masons asking are not associated directly with each other.

Then I would strongly recommend you contact your state's Grand Lodge and apprise them of this and the city/town you live in so that they may correct this impertinent behaviour. It shouldn't be happening (if indeed it is happening)

Fitz

In my experience lots of people claim that masons are just driving them crazy issuing invitations, especially on the internet. I have no doubt that occasionally some mason might break the tradition and formally invite someone, but the stories are so common on the internet you'd think we were sending out custom engraved invitation to half the population. I used to look into these stories some years ago, and EVERY TIME what I found was either (1) upon further inspection the person was not telling the truth because they thought by claiming to be invited they were somehow more worthy to talk about masonry or (2) the invitations are real but coming from non-masonic groups that people seem to think have some connection to freemasonry (moose lodges, or people claiming to be masons who arent recognized).

So....to make a long story short, you were perpetuating an Internet meme. Gotcha. Glad your posts are demonstrating their worth

Fitz

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam
But, Atheists are not allowed.

3. No sarcasm. There are two main different types of Mason. One type started allowing black people to join within the last decade or two - and the other kind left it up to the lodge's discretion.

I'm talking about the real Masonic Lodge, not the black Prince Hall and other lollipop substitutions like Eastern Star for women (who aren't even ALLOWED their own meetings without a Mason male watching over them), and their junior groups.

The local lodge, the kind that can choose whether or not to discriminate - does. No blacks allowed.
The other type also has a local lodge and they did allow a black man, so, almost all of the white males bailed out.

I'll never get why people think these two things are "points against" freemasonry.

(1) Yes that's right, atheists are not allowed. That doesn't mean we think atheists are wrong or that they don't have the fundamental right to not believe in anything. The restriction is there because masonic philosophy is based on belief on and reverence for a Supreme Being. Its like joining the boy scouts when you don't like camping - it makes no sense. The restriction is there to prevent people from joining who are going to get nothing out of it. Its not because we don't tolerate them or treat them equally in every way.

(2) Yes, thats right, historically its true masonry had a racist past. Historically. There are a handful of lodges in the US south still like that, and I am ashamed of those lodges. World wide, 98% of lodges are not like that. Also, masonry has been around since the 1400s. Yes, we have a shameful racist past. Please show me one group with this history that was not racist? It was wrong, but it was a product of the era. And that doesn't mean many masons didnt fight to oppose it. Some of freemasonrys greatest members in terms of historical reputation were huge advocates against it. If we are going to condemn the entire institution for its past then we might as well damn the entire US government and every church in this country.

No one is claiming masonry is perfect, but the institution should be judged by its progress and where it stands today and not where it was. We still have work to do, but I challenge you to tell me of one institution that is committed to these values that is free of taint or one that has improved more. You won't find one.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
So....to make a long story short, you were perpetuating an Internet meme. Gotcha. Glad your posts are demonstrating their worth

Fitz

Fitz I dont understand your response...

Originally posted by thelongjourney

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
So....to make a long story short, you were perpetuating an Internet meme. Gotcha. Glad your posts are demonstrating their worth

Fitz

Fitz I dont understand your response...

To quote you:

Originally posted by thelongjourney
the stories are so common on the internet you'd think we were sending out custom engraved invitation to half the population. I used to look into these stories some years ago, and EVERY TIME what I found was either (1) upon further inspection the person was not telling the truth because they thought by claiming to be invited they were somehow more worthy to talk about masonry or (2) the invitations are real but coming from non-masonic groups that people seem to think have some connection to freemasonry (moose lodges, or people claiming to be masons who arent recognized).

So, to reiterate you're reposting something of which you have no actual experience but suggest is (to you) believable aka perpetuating an Internet meme

HTH
Fitz

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
You did, eh? Which Fitzgibbon was this? Looking in my inbox; not seeing anything. 'Sides which, why involve me? You contact the relevant Grand Lodge yourself and apprise them. Cut out the middleman and be sure your message was received. Wouldn't want anyone asserting interference by a Mason, now would we?

Fitz

Which one? You. My copy is still in my outbox.

'Grand', another thing for the "To Do" list. (now THAT was sarcasm )

I see, you aren't 'allowed' to do that right?

Fitz I think you are misunderstanding my comments. I agree with you. My post was that in general, 99% of the time in my personal experience, people claiming to be "invited" by masons are wrong. Everywhere you look on internet forums people claim they have been invited - people making such claims as I said tend to do so either

(1) because they think by claiming to be invited they can talk with more authority about masonry
or
(2) any real invites they are getting are not from real masons, but from bodies that to outsiders may appear to be masonic due to their name or use of "lodges".

Now, with millions of masons in the world I cant say in my personal opinion that NO ONE has ever been invited. It just seems like, numbers wise, someone has broken the tradition along the way. Indeed I personally have never seen it. But I think if it happens its exceedingly rare and that nearly everyone claiming to be "invited" on the internet is not really presenting the whole truth. And certainly anyone being invited - especially multiple times - is acting in a way that us completely unmasonic and goes against all tradition.

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
You did, eh? Which Fitzgibbon was this? Looking in my inbox; not seeing anything. 'Sides which, why involve me? You contact the relevant Grand Lodge yourself and apprise them. Cut out the middleman and be sure your message was received. Wouldn't want anyone asserting interference by a Mason, now would we?

Fitz

Which one? You. My copy is still in my outbox.

'Grand', another thing for the "To Do" list. (now THAT was sarcasm )

I see, you aren't 'allowed' to do that right?

Nothing like that. You're obviously capable when given the proper directions, 'Sides which, it's your assertion; why would I get in your way? If there's a scintilla of truth to your story, it doesn't have to come from a Mason to be actionable if it contravenes Masonic law. I'd think you'd fairly jump at the chance.

And as your message is still in your outbox, I guess I couldn't have received it, now could I?

Fitz