Video Captures Death of CVS Toothpaste Shoplifter

I don't think you understood what I meant by entitlement.. cash registers have nothing to do with it.
I deal with shoplifters every day and they are smug as can be because they "know their rights."
They do it because they can get away with it.. hence why your attitude is part of the problem we face with crime in our society.

He didn't have one tube of toothpaste. From the video and several other articles it would seem he had at least 3 and a box of crayons. I'm not saying that is worth his life.. that's the point.
I can hear you now.. "he just wanted fresh breath and the crayons were for his kids."
He was high as a kite.. again, I deal with these guys all day. Electronics are risky.. timid thieves with warrants for their arrest choose smaller items that won't get noticed. When they come in high they steal really stupid things.

He's been convicted for drugs and burglary before so let's stop pretending he's just a normal guy who needs clean teeth but can't afford toothpaste. If all he needed was to freshen his breath before a job interview I'm sure his mom, dad, or ex-wife could have helped him out with that. He could have panhandled enough change to buy toothpaste in just a couple of hours.

Fences ask for all sorts of stuff. They tell thieves the kinds of things they want.. sometimes the requests are very strange. You keep saying it like it's so weird for him to steal toothpaste.. it isn't. Toothpaste, deodorant, cheese, batteries, chocolate bars, 6.99 DVDs.. these are all common targets.

I don't have any problems with homeless people. I have problems with thieves who are high and attack you when you confront them about stealing from you. I DO NOT think stealing toothpaste is worth dying for.. but I think that responsibility was his. Both men were in the wrong, both men are of no use to our society. On a personal level it's a tragedy.. from where I'm sitting it's a good start. There are plenty of people in the world who get by without victimizing others.. I vouch for those people. If you want to poke the hornet's nest don't expect me to cry for you when you get stung.

The most liberal societies, as nice as they are, have the most human parasites. We allow it and therefor encourage it. What I'm saying is that if that man was afraid to burglar people's homes and rob people's stores he'd be alive today and we'd have less crime. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by intelligenthoodlum33
This really sad. No one should die over toothpaste and I am surprised the store and the cops think this is okay.

Just goes to show the state of the world today. Human life is meaningless to so many.

Don't steal. If it were the police that did this I might have something to say. But it wasn't. It was a store manager. If a business owner accidentally kills someone trying to protect their property, oh well. Stop stealing...

I don't have much sympathy for thieves.

I have been very cordial and well behaved in this forum but you deserve something extra and i don't care if i get banned, but you are a sorry excuse for a human being, you are worthless piece of # that is the reason the world is as it is. I can't #ing believe that you mother #er just said what you said. How do you wake up in the morning and go through the day with a clean conscience when for you someone being killed over a #ING toothpaste is OK????

Please go die somewhere so we do not have to deal with the lump of pig # that you are.

Originally posted by Rineocerous
I don't think you understood what I meant by entitlement.. cash registers have nothing to do with it.
I deal with shoplifters every day and they are smug as can be because they "know their rights."
They do it because they can get away with it.. hence why your attitude is part of the problem we face with crime in our society.

He didn't have one tube of toothpaste. From the video and several other articles it would seem he had at least 3 and a box of crayons. I'm not saying that is worth his life.. that's the point.
I can hear you now.. "he just wanted fresh breath and the crayons were for his kids."
He was high as a kite.. again, I deal with these guys all day. Electronics are risky.. timid thieves with warrants for their arrest choose smaller items that won't get noticed. When they come in high they steal really stupid things.

He's been convicted for drugs and burglary before so let's stop pretending he's just a normal guy who needs clean teeth but can't afford toothpaste. If all he needed was to freshen his breath before a job interview I'm sure his mom, dad, or ex-wife could have helped him out with that. He could have panhandled enough change to buy toothpaste in just a couple of hours.

Fences ask for all sorts of stuff. They tell thieves the kinds of things they want.. sometimes the requests are very strange. You keep saying it like it's so weird for him to steal toothpaste.. it isn't. Toothpaste, deodorant, cheese, batteries, chocolate bars, 6.99 DVDs.. these are all common targets.

I don't have any problems with homeless people. I have problems with thieves who are high and attack you when you confront them about stealing from you. I DO NOT think stealing toothpaste is worth dying for.. but I think that responsibility was his. Both men were in the wrong, both men are of no use to our society. On a personal level it's a tragedy.. from where I'm sitting it's a good start. There are plenty of people in the world who get by without victimizing others.. I vouch for those people. If you want to poke the hornet's nest don't expect me to cry for you when you get stung.

The most liberal societies, as nice as they are, have the most human parasites. We allow it and therefor encourage it. What I'm saying is that if that man was afraid to burglar people's homes and rob people's stores he'd be alive today and we'd have less crime. Sounds like a win-win to me.

edit on 18-1-2013 by Rineocerous because: (no reason given)

Shut the # up, no CVS, supermarket, or any other shop's item is worth a man's life, period. What are you trying to justify??? NOTHING like this is worth a man's life.

reply to post by eXia7


Wow,,I am surprised that the manager even followed him out to the alley,,,In Boston, a few years back, a 17 year old employee of CVS, stopped a toothpaste thief, and was knifed to death,,,after that incident, I thought that all CVS employees were instructed not to follow shoplifters,,,Maybe this incident was in the back of the managers mind and he went into Vigilante Mode,,,,Its still murder, though,,,

reply to post by Andromerius


Are you done with the childish ranting? I understand that you have a different opinion than me but I'm not even sure you understand mine. Certainly your one sentence summary was way off the mark as I've already said more than once, I DO NOT THINK THE CRIME WAS WORTH HIS LIFE. That was his choice just as much as the other man's though and all you bleeding hearts are just dying to absolve him of any responsibility.
My point is that YOU are the problem. YOU and your ilk are why crime is as common as it is. You and your ilk are why people like him end up dead. You are an enabler and in doing so you put my children in danger as well.
The man had a choice, he made it. I'm not inhuman.. hell if he raped and murdered and bunch of toddlers his death would still be a tragedy to those close to him. People like you who take it personally, who want to make it a national tragedy have no business doing so. CVS should and will be held liable. The man who killed Anthony Kyser should also face the music.. or firing squad ideally.

The difference between you and me is that I see it like this. A man jumped in front of a train and died. Too bad.
And you see it as a violation of that man's right to steal toothpaste.

Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by intelligenthoodlum33
This really sad. No one should die over toothpaste and I am surprised the store and the cops think this is okay.

Just goes to show the state of the world today. Human life is meaningless to so many.

Don't steal. If it were the police that did this I might have something to say. But it wasn't. It was a store manager. If a business owner accidentally kills someone trying to protect their property, oh well. Stop stealing...

I don't have much sympathy for thieves.

That man died because people like you are too self-absorbed to give the bloke a tube of god damned toothpaste. Get your head out of your ass, human scum!

reply to post by TheAnarchist


I don't see your problem with it. Looks like a perfect example of anarchy to me.

Further proof of how disgusting the human race is.
That this was determined to be an "accident" and that no criminal charges were made on this man in what is one of the most evident murders possible, is outrageously wrong. It is justice being blatantly thrown aside.
Toothpaste.
In the past, people have been murdered for pocket change and winter coats. People cry out "evil!" and demand justice. Then when a petty thief is murdered, no one tries to stop the event or save his life.
This kind of mob mentality is part of what prevents us from acting to stop our liberties from being taken away. The belief system that such wrongs are big enough to justify a larger crime; to take another life is a pathetic example of the herd control we live under. I know people who would agree with this murder. People who would say he deserved it. People who would claim to do it themselves if given the opportunity. What heroes.
I'm not saying there aren't crimes that don't deserve this outcome. Child molestation, abuse comes to mind. I'm particularly likened to rage where animal abuse occurs.
So maybe this killer and his accomplices (including the police)can feel better about themselves that this was an OK thing that happened. A win for the um...a win for...the small business owner?? Meanwhile, it's likely someone not too far away was forcing themselves on a little child.
Go Team Humanity!

reply to post by eXia7


It takes seven seconds to lose consciousness from a chokehold....15 to cause death....There is no 'self-defense' after the guy is already unconscious.....What a horrendous #ing lie on the part of CVS....Over some toothpaste? Well I mean hell, if the manager didn't kill the guy, the Fluoride might have...

I didn't see the video imbedded so for those of you that can't play that video on that other site or need it imbedded for some other reason here you go. This is the video the OP is pertaining to.





-Alien

reply to post by Alien Abduct


That is plain and simple murder....Look at how long the manager has a rear naked choke on the guy....How they ever could have called this 'self-defense' is just ludicrous...

Thus is why i HATE MMA!!!!
Every douche I've ever known, that couldn't hold his own in the works of being a man,
Turns to mma and jiujitsu and believes it's the greatest thing ever. Problem ifs, now you
Have a country of angry, once upon a time harmless, knuckleheads that think they're
Badass because of a few lessons on the rear naked, get in my guard bro, BS.
Is like giving a gun to a minor.
You have too teach the moral lessons of knowing how to fight/kill when you actually show
Someone how too do so. But, these a##hat gracie wannabes, were so picked on as kids, that
Once they get a chance to prove how "tough" they are, people get hurt or die.
What an effn looser he is.
By the way, jiujitsu isn't taught completely in the US, and most of it is crap in the real word..
Unless you're a scared, running for your life, defenseless, homeless man, that only
Wants to brush his teeth.
Way too go tough guy. Rott in your own sociopathic hell.

reply to post by Rineocerous

My point is that YOU are the problem. YOU and your ilk

Actually, I think YOU are the bigger problem.

And anyone who uses the phrase "you and your ilk" is obviously spending to much time being a forum troll.

I mean really, who uses that term?

The only time I ever hear that phrase used it is by ignorant, racists who like to spout belligerent nonsense from their keyboard soapbox.

Your comments = EPIC FAILURE

reply to post by JerkyBeer


That's what I'm saying; the asshole had the rear-naked choke applied for nearly twice the length of time it takes to not only cause permanent brain damage, but death....What did he expect to happen? The man just get up and stumble around a bit before the cops got there?

Originally posted by MagicWand67
reply to post by Rineocerous

 

My point is that YOU are the problem. YOU and your ilk

Actually, I think YOU are the bigger problem.

And anyone who uses the phrase "you and your ilk" is obviously spending to much time being a forum troll.

I mean really, who uses that term?

The only time I ever hear that phrase used it is by ignorant, racists who like to spout belligerent nonsense from their keyboard soapbox.

Your comments = EPIC FAILURE

Way to make a strawman out of a single word. Congrats on that. I'm not a troll, I'm not racist, and I don't kill shoplifters. But my point still stands... unless of course you think the current system works just fine but judging by your response to the video I'd guess you don't believe that is the case.

reply to post by Rineocerous

Way to make a strawman out of a single word.

More generic forum troll lingo.

What catch phrase will you use next?

ad hominem, strawman, you and your ilk ........

Get real man.

reply to post by MagicWand67


Honestly you just discredit yourself the more you talk so keep at it. I understand my opinion is controversial.. most of mine are. The way I see it most people are a mess and the same goes for society at large and government.. so the commonly held perception couldn't possibly be what's best.

It's a prevailing trend in western countries these days to constantly cry foul when someone faces the repercussions of their own actions. I get pleading for people to have more empathy, I really do. If I bothered to let myself get all involved with this thief's sad life story I'd feel for the man and those who lost him. Because I AM in touch with my humanity I feel that is a waste of time here. The reality is that our society practically condones criminal behavior while constantly encroaching on the rights of law abiding citizens. I'm sick of it.

I think the man that killed him is a POS. I wouldn't have killed him and I have been very empathetic and sometimes generous in my dealings with trouble causing thieves or homeless people in my life. But we're talking about the laws of nature that govern the known universe. Cause and effect. Consequence. The only place this natural law is artificially mitigated is in human societies and aside from all the 'civility' we're teaching I don't see it working.
We need a lot of things for people like him, I understand that. We need better support, better resources, better laws, better education.. we need a lot of healing to help prevent drug addiction and crime. None of that justifies enabling people to victimize others.

You don't see a lot of people jumping into volcanoes or eating broken glass.. that's nature at work. If it was understood that victimizing people was just as dangerous we'd probably see a lot less of that too.
I honestly don't have a preference either way.. I'm just as content for the anti-social criminals to kill themselves off or have you take them into your home and provide for them everything they need to heal and become people who don't victimize others. I just want less of them and I can't get all hippy every time some idiot gets himself into a bad situation, there are just too many of them.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas


MORE THAN TWICE AS LONG TO CHOKE A DUDE OUT. I've choked out more than my share, and I've
Been choked out. It takes between 5 and 20 secsif you knife Howe to do it correctly and dependent
On his level of training/struggling. After that, you have too consider loss of oxygen/glucose too the brain,
Which will cause death or permanent retardation. This a##hat, obviously taught by an a##hat,
Had no clue about what the heck he was doing. He and his guru should bee held responsible.
Obviously, he trained at one of those pay as you go, honor means nothing, mma gYMS.
EFF EVERY ONE OF THOSE MEATHEADS and thrir "teachers", whom have taught them nothing
But dishonor and how to embarrass yourself in the eyesof those that know about their
COWARDLY MMA fighting style. Try me mother ##rs, i got toothpaste too!!!
You're bs jiu jitsu wont work. I've trained in it, i know it...I've grown above it.

reply to post by Rineocerous


OK fair enough. I gave you a star.

Because I actually agree with about 90% of what you said.

reply to post by JerkyBeer


Like most martial arts Jiu Jitsu is meant to be for defensive purposes.

It isn't supposed to be used as an offensive method.

At about 50 seconds into the video, there are two other people helping to hold the man down.

At that point there was absolutely no need for the man to continue to use a choke hold on him.

He was completely subdued, non-combative and unable to escape.

That's when the CVS guy crossed the line between self defense and intentionally hurting the suspect.

My verdict is manslaughter.