Video Captures Death of CVS Toothpaste Shoplifter

Originally posted by roadgravel

What are you talking about? Toothpaste down the throat?

I posted they could have gotten the merchandise back and turned him over to the cops.

Sorry I thought you were justifying -- pinning him down (to get back the toothpaste) I misread your inflection.
My apologies friend

Ladies and Gentleman what you have just witnessed in the video was MURDER!!!!

Anyone who has ever put a rear naked choke on someone knows it only takes 1-3 seconds to put someone to sleep it you cut off both of their arteries on each side on the side of the neck.

I would think common sense would prevail even if you are not trained that when someone stops resisiting and goes limp like a noodle that it is time to let off the choke.

Any respectable jits practioner lets off the choke before they pass out and are aware when they are ready to tap so it stops instantly unless in competition then as soon as they go limp you back off the pressure until the ref sees that they are out or you let the ref know ASAP.

Originally posted by roadgravel

Originally posted by Human_Alien

Originally posted by roadgravel
They captured the man so they could have gotten the item stolen from him. Turn him over to the cops for punishment if that is also wanted.

Hopefully then next moneyless person needing toothpaste will just brush their teeth in the store.

I think you're adding your own fluff to this tragedy. You do realize this 'moneyless person' (that you're assuming also) was choked to death? Was the tube of toothpaste down his throat?


I think it's sad we have people in the year 2013 who are that hard up for a tube of $1.99 toothpaste? Perhaps instead of handing out methadone to the junkies

they can hand out toiletries to the needy...many of which are homeless Vets.

What are you talking about? Toothpaste down the throat?

I posted they could have gotten the merchandise back and turned him over to the cops.

Their are 2 parties to blame on this in order of responsibility...

First: The person that made the choice to break the law and steal.
Don't give me "its $2 just let him have it" either. That doesn't work because once that is established then how many other homeless\criminals\free loader\poor\underfunded people show up expecting free things..People in desperate situations do bad things and once you make it easier for them to do it, that will escalate out of control nor is it a financial sound way to run any business.

Second: The overzealous people that assaulted the criminal and resulted in his death.
Real world altercations are not a movie. The average or untrained person can't just put someone in a sleeper hold and choke them out like you were Taz from ECW. Once you have a scenario like that starting mob mentality sets in and the tough guy\come at me bro types of the world who think violence proves how bada$$ they are jump in and sad things like this happen.

Still if the choice was not made to steal and break this law, this most likely doesn't happen.

Originally posted by jaws1975

Originally posted by Human_Alien
reply to post by eXia7

 

....and this is what's so scary about the incompetent 'patriots' who INSIST on owning assault weapons! We obviously lack self-control, reasoning skills and/or empathy as a species.

I realize or at least HOPE I realize this is a real sad exception to the rule but--- it still shows Humans using savage means when words (or gentle restraint until police arrived) might've been more appropriate.

We're a very angry society by & large and people like Alex Jones don't help!!

Dude you have completely lost the plot! Why don't you stick with what your good at and go back to the ufo forum!

Because it's a matter of self control.

Stealing toothpaste got someone killed. So what happens if someone stole a newspaper from someone's lawn? An AK-47?

It is the same. My analogy only applies to those who lack better judgement. This manager LACKED judgement. And I am positive, SOME (not all. not even most..) people who are crying about not having assault weapons at their finger-tips...lack better judgement too.

We are still a very savage nation.

Originally posted by opethPA
People in desperate situations do bad things

Stealing a tube of toothpaste is illegal.... not bad
Beating a person to death is both bad and illegal. So we agree there.

It's not the crime of the century. Petty theft is just that. PETTY. I probably stole more candy as a child worth more than this tube of toothpaste. I did the wrong thing. I wasn't considered a bad child.

Even though the police list this as an "Accident" (Pfft, yeah right.) I don't believe a person can leap on to a man, Put their hands (Wrap their arm) on a persons neck and exert enough force to physically kill another person. I Believe the outcome to very much be the intent of the shopkeeper. It isn't unheard of for people to abuse the system in order to be given the green light for murder (A man recording himself, chanting "I am in fear for my life" as an excuse to be able to shoot someone.) This may have been a heat of the moment action but I find it highly unusual for one to not be able to at least show a little restraint when you have all that back up (Even I'd probably be restrained when I have 7 or so people backing me up.)

Originally posted by Human_Alien

Stealing a tube of toothpaste is illegal.... not bad
Beating a person to death is both bad and illegal. So we agree there.

It's not the crime of the century. Petty theft is just that. PETTY. I probably stole more candy as a child worth more than this tube of toothpaste. I did the wrong thing. I wasn't considered a bad child.

edit on 18-1-2013 by Human_Alien because: (no reason given)

I think that depends on your definition of bad.. Breaking the law is bad to me, it's pretty binary actually. I don't say "I only did this crime, im not that bad!" Someone makes a conscious choice to do something illegal then they have made the wrong choice and done something bad.

You can marginalize that all you want but the facts are if the guy didn't try and steal from a store, no matter how trivial that appears to you, then he would not have been in that situation.

Please don't think I am saying that the animals that killed him should be absolved of blame. They should be arrested, tried and sent to prison since it appears that nothing about what they did was self defense.

Originally posted by Human_Alien

Originally posted by NavyDoc
Interesting that the mother misses her son so much now she needs to sue CVS for millions of dollars, but did not give him a home or get him help when he was homeless back then.

How very cold and presumptuous of you to say such a thing. How do you know she's not in a convalescent home somewhere? Maybe they were estranged? Maybe she has mental/emotional issues? Maybe she suffers from cancer? I mean.........god gawd man! There's a host of reasons why their lives turned out the way they did. And I don't blame her one BIT for suing.

The killer (be it accidental, testosterone-driven or pure hatred) should be held accountable and if it's at CVS's cost....oh well. They hired him!

Perhaps CVS should've held more classes on how to apprehend a shop-lifter without killing them instead of how to stock a shelf properly

Neither cold nor presumptuous: just a logical but jaded comment on our legal system and society as a whole. Quite often we see relatives come out of the wordwork after years of neglect whenever there is money to be made, be it the reading of the will or a potential legal suit. You see the mom of a gangbanger crying tears after her son is gunned down in a robbery but the rest of the story shows neglect and abuse during his childhood that leg him into the gangs.

I haven't made any comment so far on the killer or the victim, just a jaded look at our civil lawsuit system. THe question was asked as to why she was suing CVS and not the killer and the other people involved and the answer is,obviously, that CVS has the biggest pockets.

I'm betting the CVS manager plays games like Modern Warfare or Medal of Honor, see what happened?
The game turned him violent!!!
Ban video games!!!
(end sarcasm)

Originally posted by opethPA
Or maybe before everyone jumps on a business they should blame the person or people that made the choice to kill someone then on top of that they should blame the person that made the choice to steal something.

if the homeless guy didn't make the choice to steal toothpaste he would not have been in that situation.

Well, the fact that people are blaming CVS is because they are maintaining the store manager's innocents, even though he used excessive force. I'd expect CVS to have better morals... actually no I wouldn't.

Attention:

If any of you shop here and they short change you by $2.

You have my permission to choke them.

reply to post by boncho


Wow, really?

Does the scale of the theft matter? Do you think this toothpaste stealing guy and someone like Bernie Murdock are on the same level?

I mean, if I had to choose which one to choke to death................ lol.

As you know, misdemeanors, (petty larcenies) are not punishable by death.

FFS, some of the arguments here for the justification of this man being choked to death for a 2.00 tube of toothpaste are ridiculous.
Ill bet that CVS actually paid about .10 for that tube and marked it up to 2.00.. So this dudes life was only worth .10 according to that manager.
This need to be reviewed by a grand jury.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
reply to post by eXia7

 

....and this is what's so scary about the incompetent 'patriots' who INSIST on owning assault weapons! We obviously lack self-control, reasoning skills and/or empathy as a species.

I realize or at least HOPE I realize this is a real sad exception to the rule but--- it still shows Humans using savage means when words (or gentle restraint until police arrived) might've been more appropriate.

We're a very angry society by & large and people like Alex Jones don't help!!

Alex Jones has nothing to do with this, if anything this is the kind of act he would be applaud at. Maybe you should listen to his radios station or look more into him and what he is about. He is mad that our rights are being violated not just the 2nd and he wants America to be mad to and tell the Feds we will not stand for it any longer. Since when is getting mad and voicing our opinion socially unacceptable?

I really hope to see this guy gets the justice he deserves in criminal court and his family gets justice in the civil court, this was obviously murder. Can not believe what I just watched.

If someone is so desperate that they have to steal a tube of toothpaste, GIVE him the tooth paste, and a toothbrush, and a bar of soap, and a couple of bucks if you can spare it. Why is it so hard for some people to look at the less fortunate and say, "What if that were me?"

reply to post by VictorVonDoom


Thats exactly it!!! You hit the nail on the head, everyone else looks down on those less fortunate, and simply dont care.
With that being said, I'm going to try to do better

Originally posted by eXia7

Originally posted by intelligenthoodlum33
This really sad. No one should die over toothpaste and I am surprised the store and the cops think this is okay.

Just goes to show the state of the world today. Human life is meaningless to so many.

Yeah, I figure the easiest way would've been to just call the police, I'm sure the homeless guy had been around that area a lot, perhaps begging for change or whatever the case, all they had to do was ID the guy and do what they needed to.

It just shows people use force when it's not needed. The sad part is people ran in to RESTRAIN the homeless man, it just goes to show you what the average person thinks of a homeless person.

Not sure I agree with that assessment. I do agree that people don't think much of the homeless. That I agree on.

But to me, what this shows is that people often times, are sheep... lemmings... little brainless followers, who make dumb little assumptions based on a limited set of data.

"Oh no... store manager is going after a bad man better step in and help with force....."




I thought most chain stores with any smarts had explicit policies against this kind of thing.

Looking at the video, it appears the manager has him in a choke hold at one point, definitely, at least before leaning / halfway-sitting on him... IMO he should be charged with assault. And maybe 1 or 2 others. But definitely him. Further... I would imagine (though I could be wrong) he was aware it was all over toothpaste... which makes it worse.

Originally posted by Superhans

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by ed1320

 

This man intends to choke the life out of his victim. If he knows the hold well enough to employ it, then he knows that continuously holding it like that will kill someone.

Really? did you have to go to gladiator school to learn that if you choke a person long enough they will die?

Wait, they have schools for gladiators?

Wow, that was a really sad story to read. Sad not only because someone died over something so trivial, but even more sad because of the "assistance" the manager got.

I've seen countless videos where cops are brutally beating someone(justifiable or not), with many people standing around not doing a god damned thing. But a manager chases a homeless person into an alley, and everyone jumps on the chance to "assist" the manager.

So very sad.

reply to post by knowledgedesired


Its not just the choke. The other man in the video kicks kyser directly in the top of the head, just before he goes limp.

Both of those men should be charged with murder.