NEWS: Russia Tied to Missing Iraqi Arms

John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security stated in an interview that he believes that Russian Special Forces may be behind the disappearance of 380 tons of RDX and HMX high explosives. Pentagon spokesman say they have no evidence of a large scale movement of materials from the site after April 6th. The report of missing explosives is currently a highly politically charged event currently with charges and counter-charges being made by both candidates for President.



Blaming the Russians for the missing explosives right now is something the Bush administration does not want to do, however they need to find a way to explain for it's disappearance. The curent line of thought that it wasn't there when American forces toppled Baghdad apparently hasn't been enough to satisfy the curriosity of everyone.

Implying the some outside force is responsible for the removal would seem to be the next best thing. This line of thinking may be based on the program the Russians had initiated to remove weapons from Iraq after the Russians could not convince Saddam to give into US and other western nations demands.

Related News Links:
www.atsnn.com

If this happened that way, and if the U.S. did not know about it or, if they did, stop it is probably more damaging to the administration then if it was simply looted.

If it was looted that simply means that they did not have adequate manpower to gaurd it properly.

If the Russians did this and we are just now learning about it, then we look like total idiots.




[edit on 27-10-2004 by HowardRoark]

Originally posted by HowardRoark
If the Russians did this and we are just now learning about it, then we look like total idiots.

Sorry I have to step in here, and I dont mean this directly a you Howard or any other American civilian in gerneral, but your administration already looks like idiots to the majority of outsiders. This will only put the dunce cap on the CIA's head (or who ever)... they are already "standing in the corner with gum on their nose" so to speak.

Sorry but thats at least how Im seeing it. Sorry.

The link is already down.

News Source
Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, "almost certainly" removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad.

Whoa, now the Russians are involved with Syria.

That is a very BIG allegation. If it's true, it will leave U.S in a very dicey position as far as the stand on nations helping the "Axis of Evil". Pre-emptive strikes on Russia?

Originally posted by Psychoses
The link is already down.

Well the link is from the Wahington Times. The author of the story is Bill Gertz. I am finding now that I too am having trouble access all of www.washingtontimes.com

I just got on. Their bandwidth is taking a beating.

That article says the Russians moved Russian weapons out of there and they say the RDX and HMX were probably of Russian origin but from what I've read, the RDX and HMX supposedly came from a Chilean arms dealer in the 1980's and were known about from at least 1991.

I can understand the Russians moving weapons that were hidden from the IAEA to avoid a scandal but what would be the purpose of the Russians moving weapons that were already known about and tagged?

Also, how would they do this under the nose of the IAEA who were around there so frequently in the days and months leading up to the war?

The article doesn't even mention the RDX and HMX being in the truck shipments.

Documents reviewed by the official included itineraries of military units involved in the truck shipments to Syria. The materials outlined in the documents included missile components, MiG jet parts, tank parts and chemicals used to make chemical weapons, the official said.

This might be a part of a campaign to create reasonable doubt about the explosives before the election.

Another article from Financial Times has the Russian embassy saying it is "nonsense".

news.ft.com
The Russian embassy in Washington rejected the claims as �nonsense�, saying there were no Russian military in the country at the time.

Mr Shaw, who heads the Pentagon�s international armament and technology trade directorate, has not provided evidence for his claims and the Pentagon distanced itself from his remarks.

�I am unaware of any particular information on that point,� said Larry Di Rita, Pentagon spokesman. The issue has dominated the presidential campaign since the International Atomic Energy Agency raised it at the UN Security Council on Monday. The Iraqi government says the explosives disappeared during looting after US forces seized Baghdad. But Colonel Dave Perkins, who commanded the first troops into al-Qaqaa, yesterday said it was �highly improbable� someone could have removed the munitions after US forces had taken control of the area.

[edit on 27-10-2004 by AceOfBase]

Gertz is a well-known Bush pundit and apologist, and the Times is run by the Moonies. Keep in mind where their loyalties lie when reading the Washington Times and Gertz' articles.

As pointed above the "Non Moonie" Financial Times is reporting it as well:

news.ft.com...

Why is everyone acting surprised? We have known this for sometime, and not only Russia, but China, NK, and other countries have been helping Saddam's regime. Althou most of the evidence points to the Russians.

The following is part of what was going on.

March 6, 2004

Russian engineers secretly aided Saddam Hussein's long-range ballistic missile program, US Government officials say.

Iraqis who were involved in the missile work told US investigators that the technicians had not been working for the Russian Government, but for a private company. But any such work on Iraq's banned missiles would have violated United Nations sanctions, even as the Security Council sought to enforce them.
.............
Because some of the experts were said to have formerly worked for one of Russia's aerospace design centres, which remains closely associated with the state, their work for Iraq has raised questions in Washington about whether Moscow officials knew of their involvement in forbidden missile programs.

Excerpted from.
www.smh.com.au...

Also google "international technology security" and Jack Shaw.


There are some serious credibility issues here.

Here is another old article.

Sunday, March 23, 2003; Page A19

The United States delivered a protest to the government of President Vladimir Putin yesterday for refusing to stop Russian arms dealers from providing illegal weapons and assistance to the Iraqi military.

Bush administration sources said one Russian company is helping the Iraqi military deploy electronic jamming equipment against U.S. planes and bombs, and two others have sold antitank missiles and thousands of night-vision goggles in violation of U.N. sanctions. The sources said Moscow has ignored entreaties from senior Bush administration officials concerned about the threat to U.S. forces.

Excerpted from.
www.washingtonpost.com...

This pretty much proves Bush's point because:

1.It shows that the UN is a joke. Russia stalled our efforts in the UN.
2.It indicates that there were more weapons in Iraq than has been reported. For all we know the Russians moved WMDs out of Iraq, too.
3.It shows that the Kerry campaign will take advantage of any news bit without checking the facts. In this case the Democrats ran ads accusing Bush of losing the weapons... but, in reality, these weapons were secreted away by our UN adversaries before the war started.

For all we know the Russians moved WMDs out of Iraq, too.

There are no WMD due to the "joke" that is the UN placing those extreme sanctions on Iraq which led to the deaths of tons of people, but also prevented the further development of any WMDs.

Originally posted by Ponderosa

For all we know the Russians moved WMDs out of Iraq, too.

There are no WMD due to the "joke" that is the UN placing those extreme sanctions on Iraq which led to the deaths of tons of people, but also prevented the further development of any WMDs.

And do you have any evidence to back up the idea that the UN sanctions worked? Depite the fact that the OFF (Oil-For-Food) scandal, and other evidence shows that Iraq owed Russia and other countries a huge debt because these countries sold illegal arms and technology despite the sanctions?



[edit on 28-10-2004 by Muaddib]

I'm still not sure why anyone is surprised about this. I think that I remember hearing something about Russia (or a Russian company) having people in Iraq to help them with certain anti-GPS equipment. Some of them actually fled Baghdad as the invasion drew near. The Russians also did everything that they could to stall the coalition invasion (as onlyinmydreams pointed out). Once again, if you're surprised, then you haven't been paying attention to the news for the past few years. Besides, this stuff weant missing before any coalition troops ever reached the site. It's not like the explosives were taken from underneath our noses.

They are in Iraq, we know where they are... They buried them, we will find them once we get in there... They moved them into Iran... They moved them into Syria... The Russians came and got them... Anyone else starting to see a pattern here? Fact is 12 years of UN inspections and two years of military occupation haven't found anything but rotted canisters of Chemical Weapons that the US sold them back in the 80's to use on Iran.

A Russian unit sent into Iraq to shred all evidence of any of the contractual arrangements. I could see that if they indeed had something to hide, I doubt they would have left it all in the hands of the Iraqies to do.

If this turns out to be true I agree it will show how much of a mess the UN is. Russia would have used it seat on the SC to stall for time to cover up any shady doings.

I have always thought there were way more weapons in Iraq then we found. Its not like they didnt have enough time to hide anything they wanted too.

If a cop gave you six months warning he was going to search your house do you think there would be anything illegal when he came?

lies, lies zionist lies!

The Bush administration is to blame, they started the war, they didn't protect the stuff properly but they protected the oil ministry while the country was going down the toilet.

The truth is Bush ain't the strongman on terror he makes himself out to be and this proves the administrations incompetence.

No doubt this wil be blamed somewhere else or somehow it won't be there fault.

thanks,
drfunk

Originally posted by drfunk
lies, lies zionist lies!

The Bush administration is to blame, they started the war, they didn't protect the stuff properly but they protected the oil ministry while the country was going down the toilet.

The truth is Bush ain't the strongman on terror he makes himself out to be and this proves the administrations incompetence.

No doubt this wil be blamed somewhere else or somehow it won't be there fault.

thanks,
drfunk

I'm not sure which of this is a joke and which is not lol. You did read that this happened before or perhaps even during the invasion itself didn't you? I don't think that we were protecting anything at all when those explosives were moved. I'm not saying that you're wrong about Bush not necessarily living up to his own ideals, but this is a very bad example IMHO.