47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Control

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Fondue
reply to post by Chrisfishenstein

 

I don't disagree. But owning an assault rifle has been illegal since something like 1934. Assault rifles being full automatic and single and select fire (3 round burst). Of course these didn't even exist in 1934, what they did then was outlaw full auto, aka machine guns. Time was you could buy a Thompson submachine gun from the Sears catalog for less than $100. You may be thinking about "assault weapons" which in point of fact do not exist. This was a media creation. To them, any semi auto rifle that looks like an assault rifle but is simply semi auto is an assault weapon.
Just my 2 cents...

Here is "the deal". The national firearms act of 1934 is more than sufficient and all this EXTRA REGULATION means absolute squat! I am not one of those hypocrites that believes in civilians having access to grenade launchers, nukes, automatic weapons, etc..........but calling any semi-auto rifle an "assualt weapon" is being very ignorant and/or deceptful.

And to take it a step further many states ban short barralled rifles and short barralled shotguns with the supposed reasoning that they are easy to conceal. If that is the case then why are handguns allowed? Handguns are much easier to conceal than SBR and SBS, YET they are generally given more tollerance than handguns and to me it makes no sense. I personally hate all handguns except the .25acp and .32acp type because they offer too much recoil and lack of control for the job they intend to do. If I want a bigger wound I simply use hollow points. It is not rocket science!

I think it is more to do with the fact that at very short ranges a sawed off shotgun obliterates the target.

Yes. I am sorry for mentioning short barralled shotguns because it was a mistake on my part that they should be legal. The problem with them is that they lack groves and the pellets/slug leaves the barrell unstabilised aka lack of rotation. The range is much shorter and the accuracy is bad. Normal shotguns with normal barrells handle this problem well, but once the barrell is sawed off the dispersion factor increases quite a bit making them a big hazard to unintended targets.

Short barralled rifles do not have this problem at all because of the groves in the barrell aka rifling. Basically they improve the ballistic performance of the round in relation to shooting from a handgun. First because you have a longer barrell and second because you have a more stable platform to shoot with, with a shoulder stock attached.

I am totally for short barralled rifles and totally against short barrelled(sawed off) shotguns. The problem is that handguns are inferior to sbr but still get more respect overall. The government in particular treats sbr as a luxury item and taxes it to death. Silencers and automatic weapons are the true luxury items!

reply to post by garygnu


I am surprised the media didn't go to all the open carry state protests, just so they could show people on the news protesting with guns, and call them nutbars, and talk BS about how guns have no place at a protest about gun rights and such.

Maybe I should shut up in case some MSM goons are here lurking

Originally posted by HopSkipJump

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by HopSkipJump

 

Apparently you totally misunderstood. There would be no "opting out", it would be a requirement...........
Same as there is no "opting out" of a ban.........
Following me now?

edit on Fri, 18 Jan 2013 18:04:18 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

Apparently, you're not following. That's the entire reason for the formation of a police force. They protect and serve the public. The people that complain about them the most are pretty much the people they are protecting the public from.

Police Forces (from "policy enforcement" according to Mark Koernke) were instituted circa 1830 to prevent mobs of unemployed from taking over city areas. Police solve crimes as a secondary function to keeping the status quo, also solving crime has an intelligence function, as the police force will see changes in society before most other groups of people.

reply to post by TKDRL


They were all over the idiots at three gun shows today who accidentally shot people.

reply to post by MidnightTide



Damn, that's news to me.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Fondue

 

oh fudge, er Fondue, the Thompson platform has a long history.

Tommy guns hit the market around 1921 and were quite popular during prohibition.
they were not 'restricted' in 38

... they were adopted for military use that year.

just so we're discussing the same fully automatic weapon here ... your Thompson and my Tommy should be this, correct ?
www.militaryfactory.com...
those ^^^^ were still on the streets, legally, even in the 90s and a few still are today.

the reason i'm bringing this info to the conversation isn't just to correct you but to make everyone aware that even this particular [color=amber]machine gun was developed and marketed for CIVILIANS first and then adopted by the military ... not the other way around.

The tommy gun is awesome. It shoots .45acp rounds that have much better range and accuracy than shot from a handgun. Isn't it technically a SBR? You can legally buy the semi-auto variant in some/many states after paying the feds the $200 tax stamp.

The full auto originals made on or before 1987 can only be transferred between owners and you need to pay $200 transfer tax to the feds.

edit on 18/1/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

The Tommy Gun was conceived as a "Trench Broom" for use in the World War One trenches. It was hard (expensive) to mass produce.

Kind of cooincidence that at the last time that a citizen could arm himself at par to a modern army was the beginning of gun control. Just before massed tank and bomber formations.

History could have taken another turn with cities and counties supplying heavy weapons, ie one tank or plane per city, county, suburb, parish etc.

The US died during the Great Deprerssion. We're a zombie compared to what we could have been.

Hundreds and hundreds show up in St. Paul, Minnesota today to protest:


(Source: Guns Across Minnesota)

Of course, given that the population of Minnesota is 5,344,861 this might be seen as slightly less than "overwhelming", but, still...

Originally posted by HopSkipJump

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by HopSkipJump

 

Governments do not give us rights, they restrict them. Some more than others.

All of the rights that you are claiming were laid out by the US Constitution, the framing document of the government. They were given by the government whether you agree with it or not.

Rights are a recognition of a natural state of life. Rights were recognized by the government that the people chose to enstate.

They can also be changed by the government whether you agree with it or not. Luckily, the constitution set the government up in a way that we all have a voice in what happens through one avenue or another. Instead of just believing what you are told, it is your responsibility (not a right, a responsibility) to know what the laws are in your state and to adhere to those laws. The laws don't take freedom away, they ensure your freedom by preventing others from taking it from you.

The Constitution was an attempt to give the People control over the ultimate life and death construction on Earth, the government. Nothing real can be ensured, because mankind doesn't know everything. It has to be guarded or sought. The Constitution works only as long as the population knows what is going on and can make sound decisions. We lost the country when we didn't keep up with the arts and sciences as individuals. The easiest secret to keep is the one most people can't understand.

If you don't like a law, you work to have it changed, you don't just ignore it and break it at will or you will be held accountable by, once again, the government. They are the presiding body in all matters that this country is involved in.

You don't have to "like" it, but that's the way it is.

Be it God or evolution-- Might Makes Right. I agree with you there.

You assume that any law written since 1789 was really neccessary. Murder, theft and fraud have always been illegal. The rest were written because the might in power gained from them.

Originally posted by SpeakNoEvil
reply to post by vkey08

 

I live in Albany and was only able to find 5 (50 round boxes) of 22 ammo between 5 stores. Sports authority is not limiting ammo and had more than the stores that were. I admit I didn't go to a real gun shop. You are only allowed to buy 6 boxes of ammo per day at Dicks sports and Walmart.

"Besides outlawing a broader array of military-style weapons, the measure restricts ammunition magazines to seven rounds, down from the current 10, creates a more comprehensive database of people barred from owning guns, and makes New York the first state to require background checks to buy bullets. The system will also help flag customers who buy large amounts of ammo"
How much is a large amount?...

Ammunition is now HAZMAT

Ammunition is now classified as an explosive, 1.4S. So at some amount of it, the business would need to put up explosives warning signs. I remember Obama or his clan wanted to make "arsenals" illegal. In order to know whether someone had an "arsenal", everybody's ammunition supply would have to be registered. Making ammunition an explosive helps get that proccess started.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by GoOfYFoOt

 

ok, so let me explain it as the person receiving your call.

you give the gun model # and name/# of buyer.
i run the NCIS check and give you a 'conditional' approval.
you hang up and complete the sale.

i have all of the 'specifics' i need to 'maintain' a database of all of your sales and their purchases with name/address/SS attached.

you are obligated to purge your files, i am not.
the FFL i use purges their files quarterly.

No. The person on the other end doesn't have any idea WHAT the buyer is buying! All they know, is: Long gun, Handgun or Other....

They know that a purchase took place, but it could be a .22 Cricket or a Barrett .50...They are NOT told the make.

And electronic records in Florida can not be kept, PERIOD. And only 4473's and bound books must be maintained for 10 years, per BATFE...

reply to post by Semicollegiate

wait a minute ... WWI ???
how is that even possible ?

WWI was over by 1921.
did you even read the link i provided ?
i do believe you meant WWII, but by then the Thompsons were quite readily available and had often been used by civilians, first.

no offense intended but you really should brush up on your history
the Thompson came to market nearly a decade before the Great Depression (1929).

as for the beginning of gun control ... that was much later.
btw, they had tanks and bombers in WWI too
stock.mrfootage.com...

this country has crashed and flourished more times than i care to count since the GD, what exactly is the point of your post ?

reply to post by GoOfYFoOt

perhaps so in your experience but in mine, i listened to the Model# being relayed ... P111 (Taurus)

[let's not forget that 'other' end also monitors the store's stock so they already know what is available to be sold]

now, i'm not disputing you but i am insisting that the procedure is different regionally.

as soon as i realized just how much information was being relayed, i felt an overwhelming sense of regret, immediately, and if i could have taken it back, i would have bought private.

doesn't much matter now though cause they had to have even more to get a permit

i don't know about the records standards per BATFE but i am aware that this dealer purges quarterly and am told, everything.

and you are avoiding the fact that electronic records can be compiled and shared ... just not kept.
[btw, once electronic records are printed, they are no longer 'electronic' records ]

now, as a caveat, i will add this ... several dealers use 3rd party services to do the background checks ... until researching it here for another thread, i wasn't aware that was done.
so, perhaps the dealer i bought from does use a 3rd party and that's why addl info was provided -- that, i do not know ... but i will never forget how disturbing it was.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Semicollegiate

 

wait a minute ... WWI ???
how is that even possible ?

WWI was over by 1921.
did you even read the link i provided ?
i do believe you meant WWII, but by then the Thompsons were quite readily available and had often been used by civilians, first.

No I didn't read your link.

The Thompson is an American submachine gun, invented by John T. Thompson in 1919, that became infamous during the Prohibition era. It was a common sight in the media of the time, being used by both law enforcement officers and criminals.[6] The Thompson was also known informally as: the "Tommy Gun", "Trench Broom", "Trench Sweeper", "Chicago Typewriter", "Chicago Piano", "Chicago Style", "Chicago Organ Grinder", and "The Chopper".[

en.wikipedia.org...

If it was invented in 1919 then it was probably conceived before that, like in 1918 during WW1, hence the nicknames "Trench Broom" and "Trench Sweeper". Trench warfare was in WW1, not WW2.

no offense intended but you really should brush up on your history

the Thompson came to market nearly a decade before the Great Depression (1929).

True, but the Tommy Gun became illegal after the Mob lost it's monopoly on alcohol, in 1934. 1934 was the beginning of gun control, with registration and additional taxation.

That year Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin were the great humanitarian economic geniuses to be emulated.

The Great Depression gave a plausible reason for central control and squeezzed out the last gasp of silly states rights. After the GD the US was a singular noun.

My point was if not for the Federal Reserve caused GD, there would have been more decentralization of the government power. No one would have thought that they needed to get stuff from the Federal Government at any cost in freedom. The state and local governments could have made world class militias with the new weapons.

Instead we got a cartelized ruination of our economy, centralization of political power, and restrictions on what weapons and materials we could legally own. All officially coincidental.

as for the beginning of gun control ... that was much later.

Nope, guns and grenades were under federal juristiction from 1934. Gold confiscated too. 1934.

btw, they had tanks and bombers in WWI too

stock.mrfootage.com...

Up until the Blitzkreig, tanks and planes were usually, and always by the highest "expert" authority, used as support for the infantry, doing variations on trench warfare. Since they weren't used in a strategic mass, they could be killed by infantry one way or another. So up until the German Blitzkrieg doctrine of WW2, the average citizen could own enough stuff to fight a frontline army on a nearly equal basis weapon wise.

If our state and local governments had kept their original status vis a vis the national government, we could have had local ownership of tanks and planes. Possibly of a higher quality in training and material than we started the war with. Certainly we would have mobilized faster, or prevented the war in the first place by deterence.

this country has crashed and flourished more times than i care to count since the GD, what exactly is the point of your post ?

The same people who want the guns out of our hands caused the crashes and couldn't help the better times. The better times were the pump part of the pump and dump.

Blood in the water, actors in the White House (Ramble Tamble)
Don't write it down (Silly World)

reply to post by Semicollegiate

you totally disregard history for Wiki ???
are you kidding me ?

well ok then, i've given you 3 different sources far better than your mistaken wiki
believe what you will.

manufacturer history
Thompson, after investigating Blish's invention, offered Blish shares in a company he was forming in exchange for the patent. Blish accepted and with the financial backing of Thomas Ryan, the Auto-Ordnance Company was founded in 1916.

Thompson hired two design engineers, Theodore H. Eickhoff and Oscar V. Payne, to work on the new design. Even though Thompson was recalled to active duty, work proceeded.

The designers quickly learned that a rifle cartridge would not work. The AS pistol cartridge, however, worked very well. When Thompson was advised of this, he changed goals... a hand-held machine gun which he labeled "Trench Broom." In 1919 the design became a reality. Although the need of his largest intended customer, the U.S. Government ended with the Armistice, Thompson was undaunted and started promoting his new weapon as a police gun.

Thompson's new gun was a delayed blowback type feeding from a characteristic drum magazine with an outline which became well known, a finned barrel, two pistol grips and a short butt. Thompson coined the term "submachine gun" but the press needed a term to catch the public fancy, and thus, the term "Tommy Gun" came into being. Auto-Ordnance actually registered "Tommy Gun" with the Trade Mark division of the Patent Office and this was even stamped on some guns.

It was adopted by the U.S. Marines even though it received highly unfavorable publicity in criminal hands. The use of the gun by criminals was greatly exaggerated much the same as today in the case of "assault rifles."

military history inventions
Thompson was driven with the thought of creating a hand held machinegun that would help end the First World War, However, "the first shipment of prototype guns destined for Europe arrived at the docks in New York city on November 11, 1918, the day the War ended."

and btw, i'm not disputing 'trench warfare', just that the Tommygun, as we know it, was NOT part of it. it was prevalent in WWII and beyond.

aside from your lack of continuity, kudos for recognizing a majority of the problems.
however, the downfall of America began closer to 1860, not 1934

i highly suggest you review any of the links provided ... it should help clear your fog.

The same people who want the guns out of our hands caused the crashes

in some degree, yes, but not like you're implying.

this country has been pumped and dumped more times than the neighbor's septic tank

Why was the downfall of America around 1860

reply to post by Honor93


I tied it to WW1 because the story is that WW1 was the inspiration for it. No WW1, no Tommy Gun.

From what I remember reading, the Thompson held up excellently well in the field, considering its close machining and complex mechanism. Uniquely dependable for its rate of fire.

1860 was the first blow and perhaps the most important one. The GD was the last chance for a normal recovery, before national media became an everyday thing.

reply to post by Semicollegiate

as for the rest of your post, you couldn't be any more clueless.
i cannot view video so thanks but ... no can do.

gold confiscation began in 1933 and culminated in 35 under Roosevelt.

the firearms act of 1934 was quite a few years beyond 1776 and it primarily addressed TAXES ... see for yourself
www.keepandbeararms.com...

where are you getting this nonsense ?

So up until the German Blitzkrieg doctrine of WW2, the average citizen could own enough stuff to fight a frontline army on a nearly equal basis weapon wise.

ever heard of Howard Hughes ?
www.aafo.com...

please use better sources than wiki and youtube, especially for historical information ... you are missing all the good stuff

reply to post by bknapple32


The Civil War set the precident for single nation of parts rather than a Federation of Nation States. Also there was a consolidation of financial power because of the war debt.

This quote has been attributed to Abraham Lincoln by some university history professors. The mainstream historians dismiss it as unreasonable and probably fake. It seems to be the truth, no matter who said it.

“I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. . . . corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.”

Pro
Con

reply to post by Semicollegiate

if you read anything about the developers, you'd know differently.
with or without WWI, advancement in arms was well underway.
the war merely hastened the ongoing progress.

so long as that 'field' was in WWII, i would agree

and yes, that was the big shift but there have been others.
i disagree that the GD was a 'last chance' ... we did fine without banks for many years, we should do it again and preferrably sooner vs later.

reply to post by Honor93


Clueless as to what?

History has alot of details, some of them are profoundly important and useful. I try from time to time to connect the details into a reasonable picture of the truth. Kind of like a drawing of the past. Not a photograph.

I bet you know some really great details, but you seem to be a sheep about putting them together. I'm not saying that you are wrong, just that historically speaking, you get your protien from a pet food bowl.