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POLITICS: Sacrifices of War

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posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 09:29 PM
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It began in November of 2001. Bush and a select band of White House officials hammered out a new set of laws for the new war on terrorism. The new laws dismantled American civil rights and exposed good people to harassment and intimidation, but Americans fought for their right to sacrifice, in the name of freedom. The nation believed its safety was worth a few freedoms. Three years later, not one terrorist has been prosecuted.
 



www.nytimes.com
WASHINGTON - In early November 2001, with Americans still staggered by the Sept. 11 attacks, a small group of White House officials worked in great secrecy to devise a new system of justice for the new war they had declared on terrorism.

Determined to deal aggressively with the terrorists they expected to capture, the officials bypassed the federal courts and their constitutional guarantees, giving the military the authority to detain foreign suspects indefinitely and prosecute them in tribunals not used since World War II.

The plan was considered so sensitive that senior White House officials kept its final details hidden from the president's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, and the secretary of state, Colin L. Powell, officials said. It was so urgent, some of those involved said, that they hardly thought of consulting Congress.

But three years later, not a single terrorist has been prosecuted.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


This article is long, and just the first in a series. But its worth the read full of hard information and balanced analysis.

Related atsnn Links:
www.abovetopsecret.com
www.livejournal.com...
[edit on 27-10-2004 by soficrow]

[edit on 27-10-2004 by soficrow]




posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 10:00 PM
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White House officials said their use of extraordinary powers would allow the Pentagon to collect crucial intelligence and mete out swift, unmerciful justice. "We think it guarantees that we'll have the kind of treatment of these individuals that we believe they deserve," said Vice President Dick Cheney, who was a driving force behind the policy.


That confirms it. Dick Cheney thinks he's GOD. Damn the consititution and everything the USA used to stand for! No suspected terrorist is going to stand in the way of our God given right to the World's oil!



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 10:48 PM
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"On nearly every issue, interviews and documents show, the harder line was staked out by White House lawyers: Mr. Addington, Mr. Gonzales and Mr. Flanigan. They opposed allowing civilian lawyers to assist the tribunal defendants, as military courts-martial permit, or allowing civilians to serve on the appellate panel that would oversee the commissions. They also opposed granting defendants a presumption of innocence."

Very interesting stuff. Military JAGs enforcing the Constitution when Bush Administration lawyers wanted it to be done with.



posted on Oct, 28 2004 @ 01:42 AM
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I have to say that our criminal judicial system has become a joke. If you get a good enough lawyer and get the right kind of exposure, then you're home free.

My impression was that this tribunal system was set up to avoid some of these guys getting off of the hook using those methods. I have a number of arab friends of all ages and none of them have had any trouble (aside from a few uncertain stares immediately following 9/11); certainly no loss of rights. Most of those being held are most likely terrorists (or connected to terrorists in some way), but as always there are probably a few innocents.
I'm sure there are quite a few innocent people that are in prison for murder right now that may never again see the light of day... and they DID get a trial. In the end... what's the difference?
The only thing that will guarantee you your rights in this country is money, and if you think that any of us were EVER actually "free"... well I don't really know a nice way to say it lol. The rights that we DO possess, have been taken away in the past and will probably be taken away again.

As for these guys not getting a trial yet... I think that they probably won't get a trial until they no longer have any value to the US. I'm sure that at least some of these guys still have some pretty important connections in the terrorist underworld. Life isn't fair. Probably best to keep them under wraps for now anyway.



posted on Oct, 28 2004 @ 01:38 PM
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I'm sure that at least some of these guys still have some pretty important connections in the terrorist underworld. Life isn't fair. Probably best to keep them under wraps for now anyway.


...That's what's special about democracy - it tries to make things fair, and doesn't rely on anyone's 'sure' yet totally unverified opinion.




posted on Oct, 28 2004 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow

I'm sure that at least some of these guys still have some pretty important connections in the terrorist underworld. Life isn't fair. Probably best to keep them under wraps for now anyway.


...That's what's special about democracy - it tries to make things fair, and doesn't rely on anyone's 'sure' yet totally unverified opinion.



You're absolutely right, but like I said... life isn't fair. We have never really been a true democracy anyway nor have we truly been free. You can be as "flamed" as you want to be, but I've heard that such feelings can be bad for your health over time lol. Sorry, but I thought that my statement was obviously an opinion and not intended as anything else. I'm not saying that I agree with the system or the treatment of these suspects, but I also don't try to convince myself that we (in the Western world) live in some Utopian fantasy land where everyone gets a fair break.



posted on Oct, 28 2004 @ 06:33 PM
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...That's what's special about democracy - it tries to make things fair, and doesn't rely on anyone's 'sure' yet totally unverified opinion.



Sorry, but I thought that my statement was obviously an opinion and not intended as anything else. I'm not saying that I agree with the system or the treatment of these suspects, but I also don't try to convince myself that we (in the Western world) live in some Utopian fantasy land where everyone gets a fair break.



Gotcha Veritas - thanks for clarifying. ...maybe not a reality, but a legitimate goal? Do ya think?

Re the flame... still a newbie, playin with the toys. Probably trip over implications unaware. lol



[edit on 28-10-2004 by soficrow]



posted on Oct, 28 2004 @ 06:54 PM
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Yeah, the toys... me too. I don't even know why my last post was in all italics. I'm more computer challenged than the average member lol


edit:

Certainly an admirable goal... but not so sure about whether or not it's plausible in the near future. We're going to have to grow quite a bit as a people (and not as nations or cultures) before true democracy and equality is attainable. Look at the people who run most of our governments. They're just about as criminal as they come, and do they ever see any real justice?
I hope that I will live long enough to see things change


[edit on 28-10-2004 by veritas93]



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by veritas93

I hope that I will live long enough to see things change


[edit on 28-10-2004 by veritas93]



Me too. ...I'm developing a real sense of urgency - and the sense that virtually everyone in the world has to be brought up to speed over night. ...Because the s*** is about to hit the fan and we can't choose who the survivors will be - so everyone needs to know what's really happening, and be ready to 'carry the torch.'


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