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Mental Health Blame Game

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posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 12:06 PM
Oh Lord have Mercy, ya'll have driven me to make a new thread

Okay, on the topic of SSRI's, MAOI's, anti-psychotics...the lot...

I am a little concerned of how mental health is being addressed not only here but in the media and the news in relation to murder. I hear some chatter on one side about making mental health care easier to afford, better quality, easily accessible etc... that is WONDERFUL when it hits my ears, but as it starts to sink into my brain something feels off.

I wrote down ten people I know, I looked down at the list and then said "Who is on Psychiatric Medication?" 7 out of 10. That makes three "neurotypical" people out of ten that I know. I know them intimately, I know their many colors of mental uniqueness, and I know what medications they are on. I am on psychiatric medication. I have been for years all kinds, colors, shapes, and sizes! Wooohooo!

All of us struggled to get mental healthcare, all of us struggled to find a Dr. that would listen to us and when a medication wasn't working, figure out why and give us something else instead of piling new medications on top of what we were already taking.

I live in a poor area, most of my friends had to go through the government run Mental Health system. You call, you reach an "Intake Operator" who usually isn't even in that office, you get scheduled 3 months out for an appointment regardless of how DIRE your situation is. Nothing can speed up that process here unless you tell them you are thinking of hurting yourself or others, well then you get sent to a Psych Ward...but wait!... no you don't.........

You get sent to the Emergency Room. My mother worked in discharge at this hospital and I worked in medical records, what I am about to say is an absolute fact here. Emergency Rooms in this area have ridiculously long waits, and it is because Psych patients who are waiting to be transferred to a hospital with a psych ward are in all the ER beds. I had my 3 year old (at the time) son in the ER with me puking all over me with a 105 degree fever and my mom did a scan through the patients in the ER to see what the hold up was and it was Psych patients. They can't let them go if they said those magic words or answered yes to the magic question "Are you thinking of hurting yourself or others?" and they can't take beds from patients on the hospital floors who are actually dying or giving birth.

This is not the Psychiatric Patient's fault. Let's get that straight right off the bat. This is a prime example of Yes, the system currently sucks. It gets worse.

So I ended up in this unique position at the age of 15 or 16 (whichever is Freshman year in Highschool it has been quite a while) in which I was struggling with Anorexia. The question couldn't really be asked of me "Do you intend to harm yourself or others" because it was obvious at my height and weight I was literally about to kill myself with starvation. I got to skip go and collect two hundred dollars due to my age and avoided the ER stay and was escorted by police straight to a Psych ward.

I get there, settle in, all the horrors that happened there would require it's own thread but the part that is relevant here is that out of 15 of us, TEN were foster children that no one would take, all of us young teenagers. Now the problem of Mental Healthcare takes a new turn, where the beds of the ER full of Psych patients are preventing patients who are incredibly sick from being treated, the beds full of Foster children in the Psych wards are preventing the Psych patients who need hospitalization from being treated!

Add to all this the fact that if you go to a government run Mental Health clinic OR ACTUALLY scrape up the money to go to a Psychiatrist when they find out you are self pay you get the same reaction every time they go to write down your medication on that paper. "Well I would give you -this- medication but it would be easier considering your financial situation to -try this one- and -let's see-"

MY GOD is there a lot wrong with that statement. I have been on all kinds of medication, I have -tried this one- a million times. It got so ridiculous that I would call myself an armchair pharmacologist because I eventually started reading all of the information on every medication out there and how it relates to all mental illness the side effects and -EVERYTHING-. Friends call me with issues asking what medication they think would be best for them.

This is why:
All mental health problems are not one in the same. A big blanket gets thrown over everyone who walks into a mental health care establishment that first and foremost they are DEPRESSED. The easiest thing for a Psychiatrist to do when she/he has 15 minutes to evaluate your MENTAL HEALTH issue is try the SSRI first. Everyone gets an SSRI first. Paxil, Citalopram, Effexor, Luvox, Prozac, those are the medications I'm talking about.

The problem with this IS:
If you actually suffer from another mental disorder other than your vanilla flavored depression, SSRI's can send you off the DEEP END. If, in fact, you are Bi-Polar and you are put on an SSRI it will only exacerbate your Bi-Polar symptoms and turn you in to a manic nightmare. From your first visit to the Dr. to your next is an obligatory 3 months. If you call and say "Look this is making it worse" you will always get the response "Give it the full three months". Living three months in the hell of having your already unbearable mental uniqueness amplified by 100 is a wonderful recipe to make you to some incredibly irresponsible stuff, at best.

Then if you are functioning enough to keep calling (The squeaky wheel gets the grease) usually you will get some additional medications called in to placate you until the next appointment. These medications tend to be benzodiazepenes (because obviously you now have an anxiety issue) to calm you down enough until those 30 days are up. Now you are addicted to benzo's. YAY! Then more and more get added to the stack and now your "cocktail" consists of five different medications, four of which are probably only there to cover up the FIRST ONE that wasn't right for you to begin with.

So that's my rant on what is DEFINITELY wrong with mental health care in America. That's what went through my EARS when I heard "We need better mental health care" in relation to the murders recent and past and mental health.

This is NOT what went through my brain.

Having a unique brain chemistry (Which is what I like to call MENTAL DISORDER) is just becoming something that people can actually talk about without getting looked at sideways. Let's skip the entire debate on if people actually need medication and just say for the sake of this thread and my unique brain chemistry that YES some people absolutely REQUIRE medication.

I hear the chatter on the other side going something a little like.... " Well that shooter was on an SSRI....." ............................ So that caused it? The medication itself, that caused it? NO. Give me a break. The person was likely misdiagnosed. The person was likely not monitored or listened to when they said something was wrong or started acting strangely. Then I yell at the message board or the TV or whoever Im talking to and say "MY GOD ITS NOT LIKE EVERYONE WHO TAKES PSYCH DRUGS IS A SERIAL KILLER WHAT IS THIS THE MENTAL HEALTH FINAL SOLUTION"
...... oh wait
That's what feels funny.
I take psych meds....

I'm not a serial killer......

posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 12:06 PM
People think if you take them you are too big of a risk to own guns....

They are gonna take my flippin GUNS?!

Okay seriously all gun debate aside that's not the point. The point is I instantly get this overwhelming feeling that the New Redefined Awesome Mental Heath System which is surely on it's way will be nothing more than a processing center to list everyone who takes any kind of psych medication in order to take some of their rights (cough guns cough) away for the safety of all the neurotypicals out there. My excitement at the idea of better mental healthcare faded almost instantly when I realized that there is some war on the mentally unique looming on the horizon and I do not like it one bit. Mostly because almost everyone is actually falling for it and they don't even know it.

I do see the point in questioning the use of SSRI's in teenagers. Absolutely. I was on several as a teenager and I had never been so insane/suicidal in my entire life. Something about the teenage body and hormones does NOT mix well with SSRI's and it needs to be looked into by whoever actually does that job. BUT my point is to watch your wording when it comes to this whole slant on current events in which suddenly the people on psychiatric medication are getting thrown some kind of imaginary bone because I feel all is definitely not what it seems. Read the wording very carefully in news articles pertaining to this, listen carefully to the news stories concerning this, it sounds great at first...until you think about it.

Or... I'm just paranoid...


posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 12:24 PM
Great thread and a big S/F for a sane (no pun intended) look at this crisis in our nation..and a crisis it is. I agree with you in that I LOVE hearing the words to indicate mental health is going to be a priority to rebuild the system for. Nothing could be more hopeful that that. Ronnie Raygun came and zapped the whole mental health infrastructure in one of the worst moves of an otherwise great President, in my view.

I'd made this board as part of my budget thread though and put some real time into getting these stats from a variety of sources...largely cited on the bottom on the board.

The Hospital Stat numbers are numbers of facilities, not beds. Entire facilities. Under the Psych line, I think the numbers speak for themselves on what our crisis is and what has brought us here.

Personally, I think the whole culture has moved to a 'treat and street' mentality where there IS a fair % of people on the street today who would do much better in an institutional setting...likely for life. It just doesn't need to be the lock down psych wards of a mental health prison or the infirmary of an actual prison. I think Reagan is who most insured those were the only two viable long term options remaining.

Now... How do we rebuild a functional system WITHOUT the political overtones and potential for abuse that is now seen in China and previously within the Soviet Union for abusing the mental health system to control dissidents and unrest? Answer that and you'd have my vote for high office.

posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 12:29 PM
I think I agree with almost every word ! When the politicians and media are screaming ' we need better mental health care access to prevent another incident'' .... I'm just thinking if they had meds, then they have mental health care access . You can't get prescribed those without seeing a psyche dr. The problem isn't as much access to mental health care, in my opinion, as it is what mental health care in the US is. I've had many friends that I've suggested see a psychologist......... they say ' what's the difference in that a psychiatrist? ' Therapy/ counseling/ psychology is where there are much more benefits and answers than in psychiatry.
Also have been wondering how many ' mandatory' mental health care changes will be coming under
our new universal health care. You can bet there will be huge marks by the names of anyone seeking
mental health care for anything.
Have you ever met a person an anti depressants who was not depressed? I know people on them
20 or 30 years and have not been depression-free in any of that time. They do have a slew of other ,
new symptoms though. It's really a horrible vicious circle.
Glad you made it through!

posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 12:30 PM
You're 'rant' is extremely eloquent. I'm in the UK where, courtesy of the NHS and free healthcare mental health patients face a plethora of different issues. The laws here have been changed to enforce treatment (always medication and little of anything else) even if a patient is not under section and is living in their own home.

When a patient was sent to see a psychiatrist 20 years ago the psychiatrist would ask 'does this person have a mental illness' - now the question they ask themselves is 'what mental illness does this person have'. Everyone who goes to visit a psychiatrist receives a diagnosis.

Medication used to be the treatment of last resort - now it is the only treatment on offer.

The NHS is the single biggest customer of pharmaceutical companies in the world. It matters not what the cost of a drug is. 10 years ago the drug of choice was chlorpromazine - which cost pennies per day to prescribe. Now the drug of choice is olanzopine - which costs £'s per tablet.

There are alternatives to drug therapy. The Sortoria Network being promoted by Dr. Bob Johnson, a psychiatrist based in London, who qualified in the 60's. According to him psychiatry lost it's way in the early 80's when it started basing it's diagnoses on the, now discredited, bio-chemical imbalance model and has hamstrung itself ever since.

You may find his site of some interest.

posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 12:35 PM
Wrabbit thank you very much for that input into this thread. I guess if I had an answer to that question I would be shouting this rant from a campaign podium LOL

posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 12:37 PM
Oh wow Christina, I am digging into that site right now, thanks a LOT! I wanted to make a more detailed thread on this but I said hell I'll just throw it out as a rant because it was really starting to get on my nerves.

posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 12:56 PM
reply to post by ValentineWiggin

Your welcome and I'm just happy the work put into making my budget boards can be useful for more than the one thread they were made for.

As for that magic answer, you'd get my vote anyway. I'm serious too. You're at least thinking in directions the politicians seem incapable of going ...and you admit you don't know the answer! (imagines clouds parting and rays of Glorious sunshine beaming down upon your podium at those words being spoken by anyone in politics).

Think the right directions and know there is much more to learn before saying a solution exists? Yup... I'd vote for ya early and often! Oh.. err... wait.. nvm..

edit on 17-1-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 12:59 PM
Bwahahaha I love that saying.

I do not one thing, what's going on right now is not right. It also has the potential to be horrifically wrong. It's that weird feeling of waiting for the other shoe to drop...

posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 10:32 PM
An awesome thread! It's an irritating thing to deal with, especially when the media and social culture portrays those with mental illness as psychotic time bombs waiting for the right moment to blow up and kill anything in sight. My mother is extremely old fashioned, and when I had to begin taking medication for my bipolar disorder, she wouldn't let me sleep in the house for fear I was going to kill her in her sleep.

Face-palming in and of itself, mental disorders going untreated is the most detrimental thing to a person's psyche in my opinion. However, that doesn't mean everyone who has them are indeed 'untreated'. The country needs to begin taking care of people, instead of putting its priorities in things that don't deserve the bolstering.

posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 10:35 PM

Originally posted by ValentineWiggin
Oh Lord have Mercy, ya'll have driven me to make a new thread

Okay, on the topic of SSRI's, MAOI's, anti-psychotics...the lot...

I am a little concerned of how mental health is being addressed not only here but in the media and the news in relation to murder. I hear some chatter on one side about making mental health care easier to afford, better quality, easily accessible etc... that is WONDERFUL when it hits my ears, but as it starts to sink into my brain something feels off.

Okay - sorry I chopped off the rest - this was an outstanding RANT. Thanks.
So - the President is now commissioning the CDC to essentially identify "you people" (oh - except you said that you are not a mass murderer or serial killer).
The only way that would be of any benefit to society would be if they (CDC) were able to "identify you" before your buzzers go off.

Seems like "the Pres'" has a lot of buddies on this sight... Anyone who doesn't think like them - has some mental health problem/s...and should get "professional help" right away.
And while they generally count themselves among the more enlightened critical thinkers...I find them to be the more narrow-sighted... But - that's kind of to the discussion/rant.

------ Literally
My daughter was bemoaning the fact that everyone on her mother's side of the family is "literally crazy"... Then, in another conversation, bemoaning the fact that everyone on her father's side of the family is "literally crazy"... And in other conversations - how the family's of everyone of her friends (and then - her friends' spouses), and then...her friends...are crazy.
I don't think it takes Sherlock Holmes to deduce that anyone and everyone is crazy in some way/s - compared to you (me, the observer).
It just depends on "who is in power when the rules are writ" to whether you'll end up on "the crazy list", or be one of those that gets to compose "the crazy list".

posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 11:01 PM
The mental health system is a racket with those magic questions about hurting people, and some health workers are totally insane with translating what that means. Sometimes suicide gets exaggerated into homicide, and ideations, or annoying thoughts without intention, get exaggerated into intention.

In some states, if you suggest that you're going to break a law, then they think they are obliged to treat you or suffer the consequences of letting you back into the wild. Here is the bad side effect to those magic words of suicide: it goes on a state record somewhere. Do it twice or more, you get into qualifications for "special" types of mental illness, like "seriously mentally ill" which some states use to determine services, in order to keep their mortality rates down.

If you let someone know about those magic words, then change your mind about it, or even after you volunteer yourself in, a hospital has the option to involve law enforcement and the mental health courts to put you in against your will, to add insult to injury. Once a judge is involved, that goes into a database somewhere. The phrase they will use to ruin your reputation is "poses a danger to self or others." It doesn't matter that the doctor was called in at 2 in the morning, took ten seconds to look at you while she typed up the admitting diagnosis while half-asleep. It doesn't matter that the committing orders are rubber stamped with the judge's signature, and don't have your actual name or age on them. It doesn't matter that your mental health attorney violated your rights by not informing you about the trial date correctly, or didn't do anything but sit next to you in a room for easy money. That goes on your permanent record with a county, and eventually into higher-order databases.

They never put this in plain english at the hospital before you walk into the door. There are no disclaimers anywhere. There are no miranda warnings. There are no second opinions. There are no phones to call an attorney. Mental hospitals are bear traps. I might as well call them special jails with kangaroo courts. You press that magic button, of thoughts of suicide, and they will get you until you you are crying on the inside only and lying that you feel better just to get out.

It feels like human trafficking. The kind where women are kidnapped and drugged until they break and then are ready to do whatever their handlers tell them to do. Agree to whatever diagnosis the doctor gives. Take whatever pills the doctor says to take, even if the doctor is a moron and the pills are causing pain.

State systems are a chore to go through, but they weed out the insincere people through the waiting game. I'm telling you it only looks good on paper, and that's only on a good day at a decent hospital. In real life, it's twisted in many hospitals. Not a place to go when you think it's right; it's only when you have no other choice but death. That's the basic role of a hospital anyways, to keep people from dying.

posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 06:59 PM
First of all, great thread, S&F!

Taking a boat load of meds to resolve psychological issues is only a small part. Along with the meds, you also need to see a psychiatrist/psychologist/and/or therapist to cope with the issues causing a lot of the problems. A pill(s) alone isn’t going to make it all go away.
edit on 18-1-2013 by Propulsion because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 09:39 PM
Wonderful post, Val...I know how it is.

Over the years I had social problems, the general rule of thumb being that I was "too shy". Along with other assorted brick walls that happened, it got worse to the point that anxiety and depression took hold of me, but I hid it.

Recently, it became too much and I kind of dropped the "gonna hurt myself or others" bomb on a school counselor and now bouncing between therapists.

Luckily, one of them may have caught on that I actually have an undiagnosed ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder), but I'm on generic Prozac to keep the depression and anxiety at bay.

Hopefully after a correct diagnosis, I can easily wean myself off of the pills and live semi-normally as an Aspie.

posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 02:09 PM
reply to post by ValentineWiggin

Hugs to the original poster; I have known SO many wonderful people like you caught in the gauntlet of the medical industry, just trying to get their brain chemistry to function better, dealing with all manner of bullshiitt.

And now apparently in the state of New York due to the gun laws that just passed, if you have EVER said to a doctor that you were depressed or considering ending it all, you can never own a gun. And the law in New York is forcing all who work in the mental health industry, including therapists, to play tattle tale on their patients.

I'm sorry, but everybody I've ever known who went into therapy sometimes considered suicide, or had periods of depression so severe that they sometimes thought about ending it all; and these weren't people who were a danger to ANYONE, none of them committed suicide, none of them had any fantasies about blowing up kids in a school or families in a mall.

These new mental health provisions tied to gun laws also mean that if you have an elderly family member who owns guns, they will probably have them confiscated. I know many elderly folks who weren't feeling well, whose doctors badgered them with questions like 'DO YOU EVER GET SAD? DO YOU EVER WISH IT WERE OVER?" and when the person said, yes, they do get a little down sometimes, they put them on antidepressants, often without the patients' explicit permission or the family members' explicit permission. And the way things are going, if you're ever trapped in a situation like that, you won't be able to own guns from then on.

Monitor your vulnerable friends and family members; their rights are being taken away, bit by bit.

posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 02:29 PM
Thank you LM
(hugs) Its good to know others see what is going on around us.

posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 02:30 PM

Originally posted by TheToastmanCometh
Wonderful post, Val...I know how it is.

Over the years I had social problems, the general rule of thumb being that I was "too shy". Along with other assorted brick walls that happened, it got worse to the point that anxiety and depression took hold of me, but I hid it.

Recently, it became too much and I kind of dropped the "gonna hurt myself or others" bomb on a school counselor and now bouncing between therapists.

Luckily, one of them may have caught on that I actually have an undiagnosed ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder), but I'm on generic Prozac to keep the depression and anxiety at bay.

Hopefully after a correct diagnosis, I can easily wean myself off of the pills and live semi-normally as an Aspie.

I hope and pray that you have an incredibly Dr. and get the correct diagnosis, research research RESEARCH!!! It'll put the power of treatment in your hands where it should be.

posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 01:57 AM
reply to post by ValentineWiggin

Thanks Val...hopefully everything works out.

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