Wow, someone has the guts to say it

Originally posted by twitchy
reply to post by Superhans

 

Uh no, you said the first step was admitting it was a problem. First off define 'IT', and then if it's a problem, I'll ask one more time, what's your solution?

No, I said the first step is admitting there IS a problem.
Do you admit that?

Originally posted by Superhans
Grow up or find another thread please.

I'm almost forty, and I like this thread just fine thankee.
I enjoy this sort of thing frankly.
According to you and Ann, we've got a demographic predisposition to gun violence here so...
Should we round 'em up?
Take the guns of anybody who is a little more than sepia toned?
Gas 'em?
Why don't you just come out with it so you might at least apprear to hold some convictions of your own. Something a little more debatable than 'shut up and go away'.
If you want to debate statistics, we could throw in the British Slaughter of Africans over the last several hundred years, I bet your high falootin statistics don't count Zulu deaths in the 1800's or the newest crusades to rid the world of those evil islamic folk, or the 100's of thousand of those wiley japanese in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. How about those redskins, we killed so many of them we didn't even bother counting. Do you actually believe the propensity for violence is some kind of ethnic issue?
Jesus H.

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by Superhans
Grow up or find another thread please.

I'm almost forty,

Could have fooled me. If you don't like what im saying then just move on.

That's just it, you're not saying anything, you are merely parroting Ann Coulter's extremely racist remark and wallowing about in some cycle of rhetorical bafoonery that completely avoids adressing the questions you have been asked.
What's your solution to the problem? That's about as simply as I can put it, and while I understand your foot probably doesn't taste very good, unless you can defend that position, one has to assume you've posted it merely to stir racial debate, and if that's the case, I hate it for you because ATS is probably going to eat your lunch.

Once again...
The title of your OP is "Wow, someone has the guts to say it", and apparently you laud Coulter for her rantings but lack the guts to say it yourself.

reply to post by twitchy

Ann Coulter may be racist, but her remark wasn't particularly so. She makes the point that banning assault weapons and large clips is not going to put an end to mass shootings. & That the majority of gun violence comes from a minority demographic. The solution to that would be to educate people, end the war on drugs (which is discriminatory & insanely immoral); fix the education system, provide opportunities for people stuck in the ghettos, etc. There's nothing racist about pointing out a problem & trying to get people to provide insight on how to fix it. The worst thing you could do is ignore it.

reply to post by Superhans


Yes, but rational people are able to overcome ethnic tensions eventually...Belgium is multiethnic....so...fail? (Is that when you use that word??)

Saying it the way she said it was remiss. You couldn't possibly isolate that variable to precise certainty.

Besides, France, England and The Netherlands are all relatively peaceful places considering the similar frequency of immigration from the 3rd world to those places.

CAVEAT: I actually agree about the whole "liberal" multiculturalism critique - to be clear, the criticism some have against liberals for there championing of it. However, I like and respect other cultures. We all have to remember that any time you have a group of people (or even an individual) go to a new place, they will never totally assimilate and, to some socially negotiated extent, leave there mark on the so-called dominant culture.

You might want to argue this point with me...should that be the case, I politely ask you to point out the hamlet or shire in England where American cultural aspects such as pizza, jazz and that ancient Anglo-Saxon word "tuckus" all originate.

However, in the end, we have to remember that the dominant culture(s) in a nation have to be recognized and respected too. You can't blame the immigrant though. The coercive and manipulative pressures on these people to come to the US or go to other Neo -colonialist powers is very great.

reply to post by Raelsatu


I can respect that response a hell of alot more than the OP.

Originally posted by Raelsatu
reply to post by twitchy

 

Ann Coulter may be racist, but her remark wasn't particularly so. She makes the point that banning assault weapons and large clips is not going to put an end to mass shootings. & That the majority of gun violence comes from a minority demographic. The solution to that would be to educate people, end the war on drugs (which is discriminatory & insanely immoral); fix the education system, provide opportunities for people stuck in the ghettos, etc. There's nothing racist about pointing out a problem & trying to get people to provide insight on how to fix it. The worst thing you could do is ignore it.

That's not Ann coulter's solution, rational as it is, it's yours...

She did mean it just how she said it. She also said, and I paraphrase, bomb all the people in Iraq ...what was it?...bomb them because of their false prophet or religion...who here has the exact quote:

“We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity"

So, I'm not inclined to think Ms. Coulter will be coming up with solutions like: end the drug war, provide free clinics and sober programs for addicts, equally fund all schools, etc. as solutions to the Black-people-aren't-as-rich-and-well-educated-as-white-middle-class-people problem.

reply to post by Superhans


this would be an interesting stat to look up.

out of all the judges in america what percentage are old white guys?

just a thought.

i dont think its a race issue i think its a poverty issue.

back when the "dirty irish" were coming off the boat they were the poorest of the poor and they were the ones committing crimes and put in jail.

when slavery was abolished black people took the irishes spot even though blacks were already here, and then the Mexicans started mass immigrating and they took the spot of the original Irish( although they didn't need to cross the sea to do it. there is always a race at the bottom. and there are always exceptions to every race(there are plenty of blacks and Mexicans that live better than I), i think that with the population increase it just leaves more room for multiple races to share the bottom of the totem poll. I would throw natives in there as well, but they have a small population, and really just enjoy the peace pipe and the firewater and take what the goverment owes them.

so in the big picture its not a race issue its a economy issue. the river always have, and will always have bottom feeders. whos next?

Originally posted by Sphota
That's not Ann coulter's solution, rational as it is, it's yours...

She did mean it just how she said it. She also said, and I paraphrase, bomb all the people in Iraq ...what was it?...bomb them because of their false prophet or religion...who here has the exact quote:

Trust me I'm not defending Coulter in the broad sense. I know she's said some ridiculous things before... It would be a lot more comforting hearing this issue mentioned & discussed by people will good reputations perhaps.

Originally posted by Superhans

Originally posted by twitchy
reply to post by Superhans

 

Uh no, you said the first step was admitting it was a problem. First off define 'IT', and then if it's a problem, I'll ask one more time, what's your solution?

No, I said the first step is admitting there IS a problem.
Do you admit that?

This seems like a semantic non issue. There is a problem = A problem exists = something is a problem

You imply that the minorities ARE the problem. Ergo, you admit that there IS a problem (implicitly with these people). This is not different than twichy's wording: It (pronoun representing to the implicit referent - minorities and their access to guns and propensity for violence)

It should be noted that first generation Mexican immigrants are far less likely than native born white or Blacks to commit crime of any type. Native born children of Mexican immigrants, however, commit crime on par with native born Americans....it would appear there is a problem....but apparently it has little to do with skin color or last name.

One more thought to drive it home....Mexico's got like 36 or 38 states. All this violence we've been hearing about? Yeah, it's happening disproportionately in about 6 or 7 states, 5 of which are the states that border us...like all of them. So, a logical follow up question for a Mexican to ask after admitting there is a problem is why all this violence has spilled in to their country from the US side.

No doubt, gun violence in America is a complicated issue. There are multiple factors, depending on the type of gun violence you are looking at. There's the socioeconomic/cultural factor. For example, did you know that gun violence is much higher in minority youth (age 10-19) then any other age group. Then there's the mental health factor. You have the day-to-day gun violence (where people usually know their victims), and you have the mass shootings (where most of the victims are complete strangers).

I believe this is why Obama is now having the CDC adequately research the root causes of gun violence. Having the CDC study this is not unprecedented - they tried to do this in the past, but the NRA was able to block funding for the studies (off-topic, I know - but I had to mention it).

Regardless of all this, the sad fact is, the government wasn't compelled to do something when minorities were killing minorities. It was only when whites started killing whites (recent mass shootings) that something is now being done.

about 'nuff said, I think. There really is a racial thing going on here, and its not going to end well.

Unfortunately you and Ann's arguments are moot, because as long as black people are killing black people it doesn't matter, gun rights were safe. Its now that white people indiscriminately kill masses of other white people that guns suddenly are being stripped away.

Even if you wanted to pull the minority card mass shootings aren't the norm its usually gang violence, drug violence, or an ignorant altercation. In which the specified target it shot at or killed. In the case of Aurora or Newtown. People that had no altercation with or problems with the shooter are being killed just for the sake of being killed.

So don't blame the minority population for losing gun rights its the other way around.

reply to post by MisterMandlebrot


The first gun control laws passed in America were passed in order to keep freed slaves from owning guns.

And you guys wonder why you're lumped as racists? If it walks like a duck...

How about looking at socioeconomic factors as opposed to skin color? Let's see how poor whites living in 'ghettos' fair against the white populace used to compare against Belgium crime rate hmm?

Pigs.

I understand the original OP means to point out the difference in homicide rates between minorities versus the white/Caucasian population, but doing so with a statement given by Ann Coulter that consists of heavy undertones of race-blaming, isn't the way to go. For example, you cite Coulter:

"If you compare white populations, we have the same murder rate as Belgium," Coulter said. "So perhaps it's not a gun problem, it is a demographic problem, which liberals are the ones pushing, pushing, pushing."

She continued sarcastically, "Let's get more Colin Fergusons and whoever the guy was who shot up Fort Hood. Why are they coming in to begin with?"

Ferguson, who immigrated to the States from Jamaica, and Nidal Malik Hasan, an American and army major serving as a psychiatrist at Fort Hood, killed multiple people in mass shootings."

Yet Ann Coulter fails to mention that the vast majority of mass shootings in the US have been perpetrated by Caucasian males, and that picking out Colin Ferguson as an example to illustrate the problems with gun violence (in this case, mass shootings) and race is like taking your pick from the litter of mass shooters in United States history. In this case she picks a minority race, and since minorities make up the MINORITY of the demographic of perpetrators of mass shootings in the United States, she only serves to make this choice in order to propel her own agenda forward.

Perhaps if you didn't choose that particular Ann Coulter segment to quote (or anything by Ann Coulter, really) since she just ends up highlighting examples from ONLY mass shootings, then your argument could have been further strengthened.

reply to post by Anundeniabletruth


prejudice in the courts?
Your brothers and friends
in jail for drug charges.
I hope one or two members
of the social/family attend AA or NA

Originally posted by DENBY
In order to realistically & coherently discuss a subject such as this, one is by definition required to be 'Politically Incorrect'. Hence it is not possible to have this discussion in an intellegent meaningful manner rendering the possibility of any rational solution void. Very sad state of affairs.


IMO


I'm waiting to see a post so full of euphuism's its next to impossible to understand, long gone are the days when a spade was called a spade, now its a 'soil extraction facilitator' in the UK Islamic people are called 'Asians' a whole new kind of 'English' is slowly taking over, anyone older than 10 wont be able to understand the 'newspeak'.

Originally posted by MisterMandlebrot
Those who make the argument that people feel the need to own guns to protect themselves from other races are labelled as ignorant or racist. But around the world one of the greatest factors in violence is ethnic tensions. Do you think that ethnic tensions never happen in America liberals?

yes, for your question...and quit classifying all liberals....i and alot of others are getting sick of it