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The End Of Capitalism

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posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 10:35 PM

“This sends a message about storing gold near you and taking delivery no matter who is holding it. When France did this years ago it sent panic amongst the US financial leadership. History will look back on this salvo as being the beginning of the end of the US dollar as the reserve currency of choice,” said Jim Sinclair, experienced gold trader. Cited from:

Germany taking back their gold is officially the beginning of the end for the USD. We all know this will destroy America.

But the end of the USD as Reserve Currency may very well mean much more than China becoming the world undisputed superpower and leader of the world.

China is ruled by the CPC. Communists.

The CPC had to play the capitalist game to beat America at it. China has beaten America at its own game. This was an American Capitalist Imperial Empire ever since WW2. Before America the world was a British Empire. Before the British it was a Spanish Empire. Very soon we will all be living in a Chinese Empire.

The CPC runs a State Capitalist economy. I know it will be difficult for China to pull back to a more controlled economy and I dont actually think they are ready yet but I think Chinas grand plan involves Stagism

The two-stage theory (or stagism) is the Marxist political theory which argues that underdeveloped countries, such as Tsarist Russia, must first pass through a stage of bourgeois democracy before moving to a socialist stage.[1] The two stage theory was applied to countries worldwide which had not passed through the capitalist stage.

China is just passing through the capitalist stage and positioning themselves at the very top of capitalism while they are at it. The Chinese are not ready to pass through capitalism and I would agree that it will be hard for them to do. "To become rich is a great thing", and all that. But you have to remember that this is a communist party operating in a global capitaliist system.

I dont think China is ready to pass through the capitalist stage just yet but I think the Chinese Empires brand of capitalism will be alot more fair. China have been winning friends in Africa and all over the world by helping them protect themselves from the imperial OECD nations. China is more fair and honest than America. China knows what its like to be at the bottom of an imperial empire. China seeks sensible solutions on the International Stage and we have seen this with the conflict in Libya and Syria. China manages their economy well and is the saviour of the world. China made sure that the Asia Pacific Region was ok when America caused the last GFC by injecting a huge stimulus into the region amongst other things. The last American caused GFC gave China and friends like Australia a bump in status on the world stage. The next American caused GFC will see China emerge as undisputed superpower and China will hold the fate of capitalism in their hands. The Communist Party of China owns capitalism.

posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 10:43 PM
I cannot tell based on your op what your position is on the matter. but I will state my own.

good. thank god. bring it down.

socialism, as a pure ideology, is not inherently evil. in fact, to the contrary, it has a far better potential to good than capitalism. the pendulum has swung too far in the current direction and IMO, as a society, we are desparate for this type of change.

but the fear mongers will trounce all over whatever potential there might be. alas.

posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 10:50 PM

Originally posted by tgidkp
I cannot tell based on your op what your position is on the matter. but I will state my own.

good. thank god. bring it down.

socialism, as a pure ideology, is not inherently evil. in fact, to the contrary, it has a far better potential to good than capitalism. the pendulum has swung too far in the current direction and IMO, as a society, we are desparate for this type of change.

but the fear mongers will trounce all over whatever potential there might be. alas.

Everything this guy just said!

posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 11:06 PM
reply to post by HenryNorris

Dear Germanicus,

Nice to see you up and around again, welcome back, although I liked the old name better.

I'm not sure the source you linked to is really strong support for your point. Granted it only served as a springboard for your opinions, but still, look at it more closely.

Currently, Germany’s gold reserves are allocated as follows:
•Frankfurt: 31%
•New York: 45%
•London: 13%
•Paris: 11%

The United States holds most of Germany’s gold reserves, but by 2020, Germany expects to hold 50 percent of its gold in Frankfurt, while only 37 percent remains in the New York Federal Reserve Bank. London will retain its 13 percent hold of gold reserves, while Paris will be left with none.
Germany is taking 11% of it's gold from Paris and 8% of it's gold from New York. That's less than 18% of the gold it has in New York.

Overall, financial analysts agree that confidence has dropped across the entire financial system — whether in the euro zone, dollar zone or yen zone. However, whether the decision to repatriate Germany’s gold reserves has a significantly negative impact on the U.S. economy is still a matter of debate.

There is much speculation about the long-term implications of such a transfer.
The article is saying that Jim Sinclair thinks it's serious and others don't.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that this indicates the end of Capitalism. They're not even saying it's the end of the US. Or even the end of the US economy.

posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 12:24 AM
With this slow motion train wreak that is the US economy, this move by Germany is just another wheel off the tracks as trust is in the decline. We have not quite reached the moment where the carriages hit the ground and the people go flying through the air, but as little is done to address the debt problems another stock market crash and trading stop is on the horizon, this time with no one will be left to bail out the system.

As congress continues to play games and thinks that global reserve currency means indestructible instead of responsible, either it gets its accounts in order or these accounts will become worthless.

posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 12:52 AM
Communism has failed every time it has been tried and has resulted in hundreds of millions of deaths in the last century alone.

Its interesting how quickly people forget that.

posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 12:59 AM
reply to post by kwakakev

Dear kwakakev,

Your absolutely right that trust is declining. I wonder though, is it declining everywhere? I tend to think so. It may be that, even starting to slip, the US is the best bet out there. The Euro? No, that's in serious trouble with Greece, Italy, Spain, just about everybody, having trouble.

I'm not expressing myself well, but I don't think this German move is critical. Troubling, maybe, but we've got several troubling economic problems.

With respect,

posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 01:25 AM
reply to post by charles1952

I would not say trust is declining everywhere as the BRIC nations look to be working together better these days. Facing a common risk with fallout from the USD or Euro is helping their cause as they do appear to be a lot more supportive of the second and third world nations.

But as the worlds population does continue to grow and resources become tighter, conflict and tensions will rise as more aggressive techniques are used to get what little remains in a highly competitive environment.

posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 01:13 PM
reply to post by charles1952

Lol! I'm not the only one to notice.
I thought that was him right off the bat as well.

However that Bundesbank is recalling it's reserves was already covered in numerous posts.
And this is nothing more than an audit. You know how Germans are about accuracy.

The German court of auditors (Bundesrechnungshof) has demanded that the Bundesbank undertake an audit of its gold reserves. In an 'audit-the-fed' style effort, the court wants to ensure that the nearly 3400 tons of gold is in fact in existence - 'because stocks have never been checked for authenticity and weight'. Furthermore, the Bundesbank's gold is stored in three other vaults around the world: The Bank of England, The Bank of France, and the US Federal Reserve. The court questions the practice of relying on a written confirmation from the custodians (foreign central banks). The decision means negotiating with the three foreign central banks for physical verification but in anticipation, the Bundesbank has begun the process of shipping 50 tons per year from the Fed back to Germany for the next three years.

And from Spiegel via Google Translate. nungshof-fordert-bundesbank-zur-inventur-der-goldreserven-auf-a-862719.html&act=url

Germany has the second largest gold reserves in the world, nearly 3400 tons. Supposedly, anyway. Because stocks have never been checked for authenticity and weight. Now, the Federal Court has asked the Bundesbank to examine the gold reserves abroad regularly.

Again another source confirming that it's an audit. And actually I'm very surprised that Germany never did an audit before. You'd think that they would be checking every 10 years or so to make sure the gold was in tact.
edit on 18-1-2013 by grey580 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 05:58 AM

Originally posted by kwakakev
As congress continues to play games and thinks that global reserve currency means indestructible instead of responsible, either it gets its accounts in order or these accounts will become worthless.

I don't really think that congress is playing games so to speak, in my opinion that implies that there's some form of political posturing in which either side thinks they can use US financial issues to their advantage.

“Bernanke is quite correct, it is theatrics,” -Doug Casey, chairman of Casey Research and professional investor.

The media is consistently talking about debt ceiling debates and disagreements along party lines in regards to some type of debt package, but there's not a whole lot of talk in regards to the real issue which is the actual debt. Go ahead and raise the debt ceiling, it doesn't change the fact that the US cannot pay their financial commitments.

“The problem is the amount of debt itself. The problem is so big at this point, I think it’s very questionable whether this can be solved at all.” -Doug Casey

Two former U.S. government officials put the federal government’s actual liabilities in excess of $86.8 trillion, or 550% of GDP, in a Wall Street Journal Op-Ed. Casey argues we’re talking of upwards of $100 trillion when you also factor in the liability of promises such as FDIC deposit insurance.

America Should Declare Bankruptcy

At this point the US does not make enough money to pay even half of the interest on their loans. Even if the US stopped paying social security benefits, funding medicare and the military their debt would continue to increase because they still couldn't afford to payoff just the interest.

As far a capitalism and communism, it's often referred to as a pendulum for a reason. Capitalism fails and people eventually run to communism to save them, then communism fails and people run back to capitalism to save them. It's a cycle of "those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it." Neither capitalism nor communism work and socialism is a hybrid of two failures.

posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 09:35 PM
reply to post by Symbiot

It is quite a messy situation if the total US debt is over $100 Trillion. It helps put Obamacare into perspective by providing some continuity of Health Services should the government go bankrupt. A dollar collapse will still put all trade into chaos for some time. I kinda get the feeling that the GFC from the housing bubble was just a shock test to help gauge the links and fallout from a larger economic collapse. Even if it was not an intentional test there is still a lot that can be understood and reinforced with the global fallout should the US economy crash.

For greater growth and concentrations of economic wealth there must be increases in debt and liabilities as well, this is the consequence of currency generation from the balance sheet. While the debt itself is not too much of a problem, the compounding effects of interest is. To rebalance the economic situation war is the common method as the debtors kill the creditors. In this case it will be the public against the too big to fail banks. As a lot of this debt will be cycled through the derivatives market and leveraged, corporate anarchy and social disorder will follow as is the case in war.

Trying to maintain the status quo for as long as possible is the general approach I see coming out of congress, so elimination of the debt ceiling is one thing I expect will be taken seriously. As for how it will all play out is hard to say, will there be a sudden collapse as the stock market is rest or a more gradual decline as hyper inflation takes hold? Will increasing economic difficultly set off an uprising or will a first strike be taken by the banks? Tensions are high, complexity is intense and a lot is at stake.

posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 11:32 PM
reply to post by Symbiot

Another option to this mess could be in the works according to Benjamin Fulford on 14th January

Secret negotiations, meanwhile, continue to remove the US dollar from Federal Reserve Board control and into the hands of the 180 nation BRICS coalition. Despite attempts by cabalists to derail these talks, they are proceeding smoothly.

I know Benjamin gets mixed reviews on these boards. While not knowing what any of these details maybe, if there is a strong global push for better economic coordination going on it will hopefully change some of the unsustainable practices going on. As for how this changes the current political structure and distribution is a wait and see. Considering the global fallout of a collapse in the USD it is good to see there is some global support to advert a major crisis.

posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 11:45 PM
reply to post by Symbiot

Sometimes I like to think about the big picture, this time may I pick a nit?

At this point the US does not make enough money to pay even half of the interest on their loans. Even if the US stopped paying social security benefits, funding medicare and the military their debt would continue to increase because they still couldn't afford to payoff just the interest.
I'm not sure where these ideas come from.

In 2012, federal revenue was $2,469 billion.
Since 1988, the greatest amount of interest paid on our debts was $454 billion.

It appears that we can pay the interest, and still have $2 trillion for the other programs. Reducing benefits? Probably. Eliminating them? Doesn't look like it.

posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:06 AM
reply to post by charles1952

I think the issue in regards to paying the interest is that in order to reach any ability to pay interest the US will need to significantly cut through it's expenditures, but in so doing they will significantly reduce the nations ability raise funds. The reason being is that a reduction in programs such as Social Security coupled with raising taxes will lower the amount of money available to the public for spending causing the private sector to suffer profit losses leading to higher unemployment which then leads to less money in public hands leading to additional profit short falls more job cuts and even less money flowing. With all the job losses and profit losses the nation looses out in the form of tax income thus reducing its ability to pay bills.

So the government cannot pay bills now, but the manner by which they raise the funds in order to do so actually reduces their ability to pay the bills. The world's financial engine has already burned up all of its oil, we're just watching it seize now.

reply to post by kwakakev

I tend to agree with you here. Just earlier I was remarking to myself how Obama's health plan seems like an odd addition is such shaky financial times, but it makes more sense as a measure to provide for the masses if they're all out of work and without health insurance.

As far as war, I would imagine there could be a civil war or some form of large scale domestic unrest. The citizenry is already increasingly dissatisfied with their government, add in spending cuts, more taxes, additional job losses, not too mention the gun control issue and we're likely to see that dissatisfaction turn into pure rage. In what form that rage manifests is anyone's guess at this point I suppose, probably why we hear stories of martial law signs and domestic terrorism training popping up here and there. It's not that the government is expecting it, but planning on the plausibility of such measures becoming useful in the not too distant future.

Now that I think about it when we take a look at the American Civil War the issue at hand was states rights, but the federal government made sure that the issue really came to a head with slavery. The strategic value in doing so painted the rebels in a very poor light. We can probably see the same thing going on with gun control. Again the issue we're looking at with civil unrest is boiling down to states right, but the federal government is ensuring that the issue comes to a head on what can be painted as a humane issue. Painting guns as evil thus those who would fight to keep them must be evil too. Again the strategic value here is that those who would fight for states rights end up being vilified.
edit on 20-1-2013 by Symbiot because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 08:27 PM
reply to post by Symbiot

The effects of Austerity are quite well known from previous implementations and generally results in the privatization of many natural resources and government functions. Considering the size of the debt and how much of the US is already privatized such a policy will have its problems and limited successes.

As for civil war, I agree the current gun issue is a large part of it. If the government does pull the pin on the economy it will be after the gun buy back scheme is introduced and gun returns start to decline. There will still be plenty of weapons in circulation, but not as many making crowd control slightly easier. For those that do hold onto their guns they will be more easily criminalized with excessive force more justifiable, tanks, drones, ect..

For civil war to be adverted then what happens at the IMF is critical. A strong global collation has formed lead by the BRIC nations and from my understanding they are more interested in the social economy rather than individual wealth. I expect they would prefer to save the US population and economy, but if it comes down to a world war they will crash it for their own preservation. The issue of how money is created and regulated would very much be the turning point in the discussions going on. If a stronger, more sustainable and transparent framework for the global economy can be achieved that better addresses the issues of greed and corruption then some debt forgiveness and write offs will be better accepted to help get things back on track. Basically, if self interests and further capitalization lead the negotiations we are stuffed, if the global interest and more sustainable answers can shine through we might have a chance.

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