Egyptian court sentences Christian family to 15 years for converting from Islam

reply to post by Maslo


ahhh so if you only murder a few people in cold blood its ok, got it
for a second there i was appalled by any murder in the name of
an imaginary being.....

The punishment for converting from Christianity to any other religion: NOTHING (well, possibly eternal damnation, but no human punishment)

The punishment for converting from Islam to anything else: JAIL, often DEATH

reply to post by bloodreviara


Well, yes and no. I agree that I used the term Christians in a very plural way (I was focusing in the more monolithic Christian cults, the big ones). My understanding is that no cult ever claimed (or intended to) kill anyone per se, just the destruction of the property and to stop the practice, I do remember some deaths but I registered them to "accident" or crazy non affiliated fanatic. If a cult did claim the intention of killing people then it would indeed be a terrorist organization but also would have committed a crime and be punished by the legal system.

You know after reaading my OP I realize that I did in fact target Christians a bit, but it was more metaphorically speaking as there is no denying that America is a Christian dominated country.

The main point of my post was pointing out that whether you like to admit it or are just to blinded to see it. America locked up a bunch of Muslims called them terrorists, and were done with it. We also detained a bunch of US citizens because of their ties to the Muslim faith without the right of an attorney or even a fair trial, to be held indefinitely like those in Guatanamo without anymore then the guise of National Security.

All I was trying to point out is that with this incident in Egypt which I do not think is right or fair, is not the only place this kind of stuff happens. Yet the American media is playing it up as "Prosecuted for beliefs?" As I said I realize my article came from extremely right wing conservative news source, but the principal is still the same.

America is constantly persecuting people for their beliefs; religion in general by proxy persecutes people for their beliefs. Muslims feel that if you are not Muslim you are wrong. Christians feel that because you aren't Christian you are wrong. Both books say that you should spread the true faith to the non-believer, both religions have been guilty of forcing their religions on others by violence, and both religions are guilty of governing the way their countries are run.

In the Middle East the governments enforce laws that we Americans disagree with and find appalling. In America the governments enforce laws that people in the Middle East find appaling and disagree with. Americans won't allow marriage between same sex couples based on a religious belief. In the Middle East women are treated like slaves based on a religious belief.

Bottom line both sides are wrong, but for the media to spotlight another country for persecuting someone based on their beliefs is a complete act of Hypocrisy.

Originally posted by Phantom28804
America is constantly persecuting people for their beliefs; religion in general by proxy persecutes people for their beliefs. Muslims feel that if you are not Muslim you are wrong. Christians feel that because you aren't Christian you are wrong. Both books say that you should spread the true faith to the non-believer, both religions have been guilty of forcing their religions on others by violence, and both religions are guilty of governing the way their countries are run.

Comparing modern American Christianity to Islam is not only foolish, but dangerous.

Make no mistake, there are Islamic groups that live to kill all non-muslims, and do it in the name of God/Allah. In Islam infidels are to be eradicated, Jews annihilated, women are severely oppressed, raped and violated, children are raised to HATE, girls as young as 6-9 years old taken for the wives of grown men, Islamic law rules with extreme brutality, and extremely graphic violence.

Islam, despite all efforts to to portray it otherwise is EVIL.

In time even you will no longer be oblivious to that.

Christianity has a history, but nothing that can compare to the totality of the evils of Islam.

Originally posted by ausername

Originally posted by Phantom28804
America is constantly persecuting people for their beliefs; religion in general by proxy persecutes people for their beliefs. Muslims feel that if you are not Muslim you are wrong. Christians feel that because you aren't Christian you are wrong. Both books say that you should spread the true faith to the non-believer, both religions have been guilty of forcing their religions on others by violence, and both religions are guilty of governing the way their countries are run.

Comparing modern American Christianity to secular Islam is not only foolish, but dangerous.

Make no mistake, there are Islamic groups that live to kill all non-muslims, and do it in the name of God/Allah. In Islam infidels are to be eradicated, Jews annihilated, women are severely oppressed, raped and violated, children are raised to HATE, girls as young as 6-9 years old taken for the wives of grown men, Islamic law rules with extreme brutality, and extremely graphic violence.

Islam, despite all efforts to to portray it otherwise is EVIL.

In time even you will no longer be oblivious to that.

Christianity has a history, but nothing that can compare to the totality of the evils of Islam.

I disagree to an extent. I do not think it is as many Muslim sects that do these things as some might believe. Granted I have no outright proof of this, but I do believe that the media and social networking deeply skews our perspective on this. You hear all the horribly bad things via the internet, news etc. I am not saying that there isn't bad out there, but I think the enormity of it is a bit overstated

I think that there are parts of every religion that are skewed and outright malicious.

Christians have them too.

KKK
Westboro Baptist Church
Anti Abortion Extremists etc.

Originally posted by Viesczy

Originally posted by stupid girl
-snip-
Being sent to prison for any religious belief, Christian, Muslim, or otherwise, is a travesty.
-snip-

edit on 16-1-2013 by stupid girl because: (no reason given)

You're right, it is. Prison sentences for believing in fairy tales is just wrong as it is too expensive. Why sentence a child for buying childish tales?

Sterilization is plenty good enough, how many more gullible sheeple does the world need? NONE! We'll be thinning the population w/o even having to kill anyone!

Derek

If that was your best attempt at contemptuously denigrating those of whom choose to practice some sort of religious faith, which would be 86% of the entire population on the planet, then I respectfully advise you to refrain from such paltry efforts in the future.
Since I can only assume that you include yourself among the 14% minority who practice no religion, that leaves you with a little over 6 billion gullible, childish sheeple, give or take a few million, for you to educate with your overwhelming intellect and insight.
Based on your previous flaccid effort, you may want to come up with some new material.

In a war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man.

Really all that needs to be said. Once again the "religion of peace" rears it's ugly head.

I have only this to say. I very much doubt that this is what the protestors at Tahrir Square were hoping for when they camped out for day after day, week after week, ousted an established family from power who had been in place for decades, and risked life and limb to up hold the ideals of freedom and liberty.

There were peoples of virtually every religious persuasion involved in the protest movement, hundreds of different banners, under which these different groups marched in mutual rage and determination. This is what a group of people, of different faiths and politics can achieve when they decide to work together, and come to an understanding which benifits the greater whole of that entire group.

The worst thing that the government of Egypt could have decided to do, is begin to try to divide that which was bought together to such positive effect. It might make life easier for them in the short term, while everyone runs around tearing out thier hair, but when the dust settles, there will be hell to pay if the new order becomes worse than the old one.

reply to post by Phantom28804

I think that there are parts of every religion that are skewed and outright malicious.

Thats true, however religious groups differ considerably in the prevalence of extremism, both relative and absolute, and in the magnitude of extremism. Pretending that all is equal is dishonest, and for some strange reason I see such sentiment pop up here and there.

The Egypt has much, much more religious extremism than the US. And there is no hypocrisy in exposing it.

Originally posted by Phantom28804

JAILED FOR BELIEFS: Egypt Family Gets 15 Years For Christian Conversion

They were lucky.

Muhammad stated that the penalty for converting to Christianity was death.

Religion of peace?

Okay, why didnt Fox "news" report the whole story :

A mother and her seven children are jailed for 15 years for converting to Christianity and changing their names. A mother and her seven children have been jailed for 15 years in Egypt for converting back to Christianity. Nadia Mohamed Ali and her children Mohab, Maged, Sherif, Amira, Amir and Nancy were sentenced at the criminal court in Beni Suef, 70 miles south of Cairo.

Another seven people involved in the case were also sentenced to five years in prison, according to reports. Nadia was born a Christian, but converted to Islam when she married husband Mohamed Abdel-Wahhab Mustafa 23 years ago.

He later died, and she planned to convert back to Christianity along with her family. In 2004, after converting back to Christianity, they attempted to get new identity cards with their Christian names on them. But one of her children was arrested in 2006 and police became suspicious after looking at his documents and noticing he had changed his name. He confessed the documents had been changed illegally and Nadia, her children and clerks who processed the identity cards were all arrested and charged. The family was sentenced to 15 years in prison in court last week. Christians in Egypt who convert to Islam have complained they face difficulties if they decide to convert back, especially in changing names on official documents. This leads many people to forge the documents, risking prison sentences. news.sky.com...

Just a "small" detail Fox forgot to mention. I'm not playing the devils advocate here, but its just discusting how fox "news" pust their biggoted twist on every piece of news they report.

The author of the fox "news" article is Ben Winthal, correspondent for Jerusalem Post, and very biased hmmmmmmmm, nothing fishy, right ?

Jordan Sekulow, executive director of the American Center for Law and Justice whom they also quote, is a Christian fundementalist who admires Geert Wilders, believs that USA is a Christian nation,

I mean, why the f does Fox "news" quote Jordan Selkulow , a religious zealot, about sharia and the matter at hand when the guy is as far out as those he criticises ?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Phantom28804

JAILED FOR BELIEFS: Egypt Family Gets 15 Years For Christian Conversion

They were lucky.

Muhammad stated that the penalty for converting to Christianity was death.

Religion of peace?

Hey troll, read the article instead of the headline. Seven other people, muslims who follow Muhammed, that helped the family were also sentenced. Hows that working out for you ?

reply to post by Phantom28804


Blessed is he who is persecuted in His name.


I swear...Syria...Egypt..... they wouldn't even have to have a draft or lie to us. All they would have to do is tell the truth.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Phantom28804

JAILED FOR BELIEFS: Egypt Family Gets 15 Years For Christian Conversion

They were lucky.

Muhammad stated that the penalty for converting to Christianity was death.

Religion of peace?

I am not well versed enough on their religion to speculate. However, every religion has extremists that take pieces of scripture out of context.

I have also heard it is their duty to make war with any other religions, but I can not confirm it. I also know enough to know that if that is true, they are not doing a very good job. They would have all died a long time ago.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I am not well versed enough on their religion to speculate. However, every religion has extremists that take pieces of scripture out of context.

Nothing out of context mate.

Below is a list of links to reputable Muslim links clearly showing Muhammad stated the penalty for converting from Islam is death.

Hadith Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
Link 4
Link 5

Note: All of the links above are reputable Muslim sites, while Sahih Bukhari is considered a sacred Hadith by Sunni Muslims who make up 85% of Muslims worldwide.

If Muhammad clearly stated that the penalty for leaving Islam is death, what sort of religion is Islam?

Originally posted by NarrowGate

I have also heard it is their duty to make war with any other religions, but I can not confirm it. I also know enough to know that if that is true, they are not doing a very good job. They would have all died a long time ago.

Of The 22 World Conflicts Around The World, 21 are Muslim

his widow planned to convert her family back to Christianity in order to obtain an inheritance from her family. Read more: www.foxnews.com...

That's what I find ironic. She converted her family to Christianity to gain an inheritance and because of that her family gets 15 years in prison.

It's very sad and I'm not judging her, but you have to admit it is a true picture of irony.

Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by Phantom28804

 

I don't think its comparable, Christians do not strap bombs on themselves to kill infidels at best some that professed to be Christians and have power to stop the killing of innocent Muslims do nothing (Christianity is not about killing or forcing religion on others at least that was never been the intendedmessage as I understand it).

Umm...

Crusades

reply to post by ollncasino


Well....it's their funeral (suicide?).

Just don't go calling Israel the bigots .

I must admit, I never researched it and you have convinced me to take 5-10 minutes to look at it.

From what I have seen...it does not look good.

SO WTF DO THEY ACTUALLY BELIEVE? Was Jesus who He said He was, or was He not who He said He was? Is God Love or is God hate? Does God tell us to kill all infidels or to love all sinners?

It is almost like this doesn't get talked about on purpose....