Forbes Article "Conveniently" DELETED Yesterday Claims SSRIU Drugs Caused Sandy Hook And Others

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Ghost375

 

Oh that question is serious. No, I am comparing people that actually think they are vampires, to people that think they have Bipolar.

I think a whole lot of the people that are classed as bipolar, are not. I think a whole lot of people, are given this label or that, with no scientific test to prove it, just so psychiatrists and drug companies can rake in the money.

People who are diagnosed with Bipolar, go to a psychologist because they are having severe problems. Drug companies aren't taking random people off the street and telling them they are bipolar. These are people with serious problems seeking help who get the drugs. They aren't people who just had a bad day. So you're also upset there's not some test that tells people exactly what's wrong with them? The brain is the most complex thing in the universe. Sorry we're not perfect in understand and diagnosing it's problems!

Like I've been saying, go read the "What's your story?" thread on that forum and tell me those people are fine. If they don't make you sad, you are callous, no discussion.

and really, do you think it's normal for people to think they are vampires? That's not a form of psychosis?

reply to post by DeeKlassified


I am not so sure though. I haven't done the footwork to research and verify it, but clinical trials as presented by the video in this thread makes me very dubious. Two small 8 week clinical studies, that is the first two steps. Step three is marketing it to the general public and collecting data on any more side effects if I remember correctly. Also, the first step, is not aimed at people with the condition they are looking to treat with it, just normal volunteers. Supposedly in one antidepressant study, 6 people attempted suicide after being on it, 4 succeeded in ending their lives. Without any signs of depression or suicide before taking the drug. I think drugs are released to us way to early, and we are being used as unwitting guinepigs.

reply to post by Ghost375


They don't have to pull them off the street, there are commercials in their livingroom doing it.

Sure, the brain is complex, but these drug companies are claiming this problem, is caused by this imbalance in the brain. Take this drug, and it will correct that, with zero proof! If they know that a problem is caused by a chemical imbalance, surely there must be a test for it right? Or are they just making stuff up, and people, including doctors, just taking their word for it?

If you talk to a doctor for a few minutes, and he says, "Hey, I believe you have a thyroid disorder, you should take this pill" Are you gonna say, "Sure, OK doc", or are you going to demand a test first? I certainly hope it's the latter.

reply to post by TKDRL


You're still complaining that we don't know everything about the most complex thing in the universe....
You're also putting words in the drug companies mouth.

Again, go read that website and see how many people say they get better after taking meds. You can also see that sometimes it takes multiple tries of multiple medications before they work. It's not perfect, but it helps in many cases.

reply to post by Ghost375


I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree for now. You seem to have complete trust in an industry that I have very little trust in, which is the crux of our disagreement.

TextTo simply say ALL people who take ssri are murderers is simply ridiculous and illogical. SSRI generally help the majority of people who take them. Same with anti-psychotics. But BOTH have adverse consequence IF NOT MANAGED PROPERLY. More GPs prescribe anti-psychotics than psychiatrists do. This mismanagement goes for ANYTHING people put into their bodies. And an association can be drawn with any of these things. For example, criminal behaviour has been associated with fast food. Does that mean EVERYONE who eats fast food is a criminal? Total BS. DON"T denigrate ssri. They've saved more lives than then they've taken. PERIOD..

reply to post by aaronez


@ aaronez

I believe you mean well but I also believe you are one of millions who are misled. A GP has no business delving into these mind destroying drugs and most all of these drugs should be thrown into the sewer where they belong.
Most all of these drugs are so devastating that they actually destroy the brain and are so mind altering that most all cannot withdraw from these dangerous drugs without harmful side effects.

Big Pharm is actually destroying the minds and the bodies of millions with their recalled drugs. Most all of the recalls are recalled after billions are made from the drugs and from their products. Many people suffer and die because of the AMA racket which forces everything from fluoride to GMO products to poison all of us. The little children are being destroyed by the score by ignorant parents who don't have a clue as to the effects of these drugs. The entire system is broke and no one to fix it.

reply to post by DeeKlassified

Oh and as for the question about why are we not doing anything? Well plenty of us are doing everything we can as individuals. Spreading awareness, and knowledge. Joining groups that focus around issues that are important to us. I do everything I can think of to try and make this a better world. Short of blowing a gasket, stealing a bulldozer, mooning congress and throwing puppies at them, or some crazy nonsense

"Mr. Hunter fails to mention that the The Citizens Commission on Human Rights, which claims to be “a non-profit, non-political, non-religious mental health watchdog”

what? no thank you i have my own mental health and i call is "conscience". Sounds like whoever wrote this needs to get a lesson on it.

Originally posted by TKDRL

Sure, the brain is complex, but these drug companies are claiming this problem, is caused by this imbalance in the brain. Take this drug, and it will correct that, with zero proof! If they know that a problem is caused by a chemical imbalance, surely there must be a test for it right?

This was a pretty balanced article. It asks slightly different questions, and suggest some familiar questions are perhaps erroneous.

Chemical Imbalance Test Does It Exist?

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Yeah that's good stuff, even the comment section. Thanks, stuff like this will help in my research

reply to post by capone1

If you visit a doctor, and you show ANY signs of someone who could possibly endanger others, you're probably gonna be put on some sort of medication. So what's to blame, the medicine, or the person?

Maybe, but Drs. don't only Rx to those types, they prescribe to people with issues from a little anxiety to the chronically depressed and anyone in between. SSRI's are too readily and widely Rx'ed in this country.

reply to post by Seede


because your post got so many stars I feel compelled to respond

Most all of these drugs are so devastating that they actually destroy the brain and are so mind altering that most all cannot withdraw from these dangerous drugs without harmful side effects.

1. You say 'most' drugs

2. You say 'most' people.

3. You say they destroy the brain.

So please. In the spirit of denying ignorance. Substantiate the claim that most pharmaceuticals (SSRI's?) destroy the brains of most people taking them.

And for everyone that starred your post...please feel free to chime in.

History has shown that prescribed drugs are constantly a work in progress. Even when they go to market the effects/side effects are still being studied and only when there is enough evidence - enough people experiencing severe side effects - are they pulled.

The thalidomide disaster was one of the ugliest episodes in pharmaceutical history and goes to show how little is know about drugs before they reach market.

www.sciencemuseum.org.uk...

TextSo please. In the spirit of denying ignorance. Substantiate the claim that most pharmaceuticals (SSRI's?) destroy the brains of most people taking them. And for everyone that starred your post...please feel free to chime in.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


@ Lucid Lunacy

I should ask you the same. Can you show me, in the antidepressant category, where these eleven major compounds, which are generally used, do not harm the body and brain? No, you nor anyone can show this as a truth. I have worked with the American Cancer Society as well as Mayo Clinic and Veterans Administration Hospitals and other organizations in the United States for more than eighteen years and have seen and had hands on experience with people who have had these drugs administered. Most are so screwed up today that they can not be helped and the drugs did nothing but escalate the problem.

I would advise you to read "Talking Back to Prozac" by Dr. Peter R. Breggin. You can get this book on Amazon if you are that interested. Dr. Breggin is world renowned as an MD as well as a Harvard Psychiatrist and a criminal consultant in this country. This book will open your eyes to what is wrong with this AMA and Big Pharm.

Before you argue facts I would advise you to learn exactly what the truth is and then make your own thread proving Dr. Breggin wrong. It is a proven fact that children who are given Prozac suffer life time effects from this drug alone. Another additional subject matter is that of Fluoride. Fluoride has been linked to brain, blood, and bone disease. It also has been shown that fluoride causes lower IQ in 27 studied cases. Then why isn't all of this being corrected? Simply because of the big money. AMA and Big Pharm will buy their way into and out of all situations. Can I prove this? Read what the experts tell you and then get back to ATS and tell us what you find.

As a person who has worked for well over 10 years with people who suffer severe and enduring mental health problems I can personally attest to seeing hundreds of people's conditions drastically improve through the use of psychiatric meds and, conversely, deteriorate severely when they have decided to stop taking them. I agree that psychiatric drugs are too widely prescribed and that individuals should often be offered input from psychology services as well (or even instead of in some cases e.g. Anxiety, depression, OCD etc, even some psychosis). However, psychology services are considerably more expensive and time/resource consuming and it's easier and cheaper to dish out the drugs. Wrong of course but practical nonetheless. There are many studies that indicate that drugs aren't nearly as effective as they're made out to be in terms of treating many illnesses. However, with serious psychosis (which I would imagine account for the vast majority of the serious crimes committed by those with mental health problems) medication is still the most effective treatment by far. Though it has been shown results could be further improved by psychology input to help individuals to better understand their experiences and to cope with both the possible causes (trauma, especially sexual abuse, is strongly implicated in many diagnoses of schizophrenia for example) and the effects/symptoms...

Originally posted by Ghost375
reply to post by TKDRL

 

You're still complaining that we don't know everything about the most complex thing in the universe....
You're also putting words in the drug companies mouth.

Again, go read that website and see how many people say they get better after taking meds. You can also see that sometimes it takes multiple tries of multiple medications before they work. It's not perfect, but it helps in many cases.

You need to read Anatomy of an Epidemic before you comment any further.

Schizophrenics do better UNMEDICATED.
Bipolar patients do better UNMEDICATED.
Depressed patients do better UNMEDICATED.

This has all been known to the psychiatric world since 1980, at least. MANY STUDIES BACK THIS UP. But you can't stop the wheels of big pharma. Especially not when those wheels managed to make these franken-meds Rx only, which is the only thing that saved the psychiatric industry. Go find a well-respected psychiatrist who ISN'T being paid by a pharmaceutical company. Please. I'll wait here.

None of the drug studies that claim improvement last more than a few weeks, or a few months. Long term studies ALL show that these drugs perform WORSE than placebo - and many, many, many cases of bipolar only surface after bad reactions to anti-depressants. Bipolar patients become incapacitated by their illness in 15% of unmedicated cases - but 70% of medicated bipolar patients are incapacitated by it. WTH?

And I won't even get started on how they don't even DO what they claim they do. Science has NO idea what they're doing to your brain, besides causing major chemical & physical changes that WORSEN your long-term outcome & may not be reversible.

Would you like to hear what happens to doctors who run clinical trials to test the outcomes of patients who aren't put on medication? Their patients do GREAT - until they suddenly lose all their funding and become pariahs in their field.

The medicating of America is one of the biggest conspiracies I have ever seen. And it isn't being discussed much here.

ETA: only very extreme psychosis patients show long-term improvement on meds. This is an extremely small percentage of the population.

They fill em up with drugs and hypnotize them before.

reply to post by Schkeptick


The old books of alchemy are much more efficient than any modern day drug.

Originally posted by Schkeptick


You need to read Anatomy of an Epidemic before you comment any further.

Schizophrenics do better UNMEDICATED.
Bipolar patients do better UNMEDICATED.
Depressed patients do better UNMEDICATED.

This has all been known to the psychiatric world since 1980, at least. MANY STUDIES BACK THIS UP.

BS. That's complete and utter BS. Just because some random person on the internet says there are studies, doesn't mean there actually are.

This is my specialty. Don't tell me I need to read some random book(anyone can write a book), before I need to comment.

Every single "fact" you mention after that is so asinine, it's funny. People do worse with drugs than placebo? I'd love to see a study that shows that. It's you who shouldn't talk til you provide some links to actual studies for these asinine claims.

I still can't believe you said "Schizophrenics do better unmedicated." That's just so ignorant, it's unbelievable. Second generation antipsychotics are EXTREMELY effective at treating hallucinations and other positive symptoms of schizophrenia.

Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by Schkeptick


You need to read Anatomy of an Epidemic before you comment any further.

Schizophrenics do better UNMEDICATED.
Bipolar patients do better UNMEDICATED.
Depressed patients do better UNMEDICATED.

This has all been known to the psychiatric world since 1980, at least. MANY STUDIES BACK THIS UP.

BS. That's complete and utter BS. Just because some random person on the internet says there are studies, doesn't mean there actually are.

This is my specialty. Don't tell me I need to read some random book(anyone can write a book), before I need to comment.

Every single "fact" you mention after that is so asinine, it's funny. People do worse with drugs than placebo? I'd love to see a study that shows that. It's you who shouldn't talk til you provide some links to actual studies for these asinine claims.

edit on 18-1-2013 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-1-2013 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-1-2013 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

Are you an MD? If so, I'd love to talk via PM. As I said a few pages back I have a graduate degree in pharmacology and I'm currently in an MD program. This topic is highly fascinating to me.