Teacher Fired for Giving Student Bible

Originally posted by topherman420
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

I can see your side, but it isn't the reality that we live in. Tom Sawyer is not a religious text, it is a piece of American literature whether it mentions god or not, it's not one of the central themes of the book. If parents want an education in the bible for their children they can send them to a catholic school or teach them at home about it.

However, the Bible is a text that, like it or not, has had great influence on western civilization in general and on our country in particular. I have as little worry about teaching the bible in the context of a history class or a cultural class as I do with teaching Greek mythology in the same context. It is the context of the presentation that makes teaching the Bible an endorsement of religion or not. Simply having it or talking about it is not.

reply to post by NavyDoc


This wasn't a history lesson. I took ancient civ in a public highschool, even when we learned about religions (2 weeks of our course was all about christianity and catholicism) a bible/quran/bhagavad gita was not used as a historical text for study. This isn't about the validity of the bible as an influence of culture it's about what is allowed in public schools and this isn't. This wasn't in a class, this was a personal exchange between the student and teacher which I think really heated this issue. If there was a context maybe this would of been a bit more accepted.

Originally posted by topherman420
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

This wasn't a history lesson. I took ancient civ in a public highschool, even when we learned about religions (2 weeks of our course was all about christianity and catholicism) a bible/quran/bhagavad gita was not used as a historical text for study. This isn't about the validity of the bible as an influence of culture it's about what is allowed in public schools and this isn't. This wasn't in a class, this was a personal exchange between the student and teacher which I think really heated this issue. If there was a context maybe this would of been a bit more accepted.

In this particular situation, given the story we have, I think that we do not have an example of pushing religion. Assuming that the article is accurate, it looks to me that a student had a question about a cultural saying, was given an answer as to its origins, then asked for source material and was given a copy of the book in question. I don't find books scary in and of themselves, so if this context for the interaction was accurate, I don't have a problem with it and think it a bit silly that someone decided to sue.

Back in the day, if a kid brought home a book the parents did not like, they just threw it out...no lawyers involved.

reply to post by NavyDoc


But we both know this is the reality of today....we live in a litigious society where parents have a say. It is not a common cultural saying it is a passage from the bible, the bible was given to the student on his lunch hour, not in class or during a history lesson (there goes the context).
The logical thing for the teacher to do was tell him to look up the bible verse online on his own time, go to the library or ask his parents about getting a copy. There are certain liberties teachers are not allowed in public schools and this teacher should of been fully aware of this. I don't see anything nefarious in the teachers actions all I see is a silly mistake that he could of avoided with a simple alternative.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by topherman420
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

This wasn't a history lesson. I took ancient civ in a public highschool, even when we learned about religions (2 weeks of our course was all about christianity and catholicism) a bible/quran/bhagavad gita was not used as a historical text for study. This isn't about the validity of the bible as an influence of culture it's about what is allowed in public schools and this isn't. This wasn't in a class, this was a personal exchange between the student and teacher which I think really heated this issue. If there was a context maybe this would of been a bit more accepted.

In this particular situation, given the story we have, I think that we do not have an example of pushing religion. Assuming that the article is accurate, it looks to me that a student had a question about a cultural saying, was given an answer as to its origins, then asked for source material and was given a copy of the book in question. I don't find books scary in and of themselves, so if this context for the interaction was accurate, I don't have a problem with it and think it a bit silly that someone decided to sue.

Back in the day, if a kid brought home a book the parents did not like, they just threw it out...no lawyers involved.

really?...not so...
abcnews.go.com...

Persecution.

It always starts in little ways.

Pretty soon 501c3 churches will be restricted in what they can teach/preach.

Wait...

The Court asserts that an exempt organization (one that has become a 501c3) must “demonstrably serve and be in harmony with the public interest,” must have a purpose that comports with “the common community conscience,” and must not act in a manner “affirmatively at odds with the declared position of the whole Government.”

exministries.wordpress.com...

reply to post by davjan4


That is for charitable organizations, not government run public schools. Certain public schools may qualify to receive private funding and tax exemptions if they qualify and are organised apart from the government as a whole.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by topherman420
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

This wasn't a history lesson. I took ancient civ in a public highschool, even when we learned about religions (2 weeks of our course was all about christianity and catholicism) a bible/quran/bhagavad gita was not used as a historical text for study. This isn't about the validity of the bible as an influence of culture it's about what is allowed in public schools and this isn't. This wasn't in a class, this was a personal exchange between the student and teacher which I think really heated this issue. If there was a context maybe this would of been a bit more accepted.

In this particular situation, given the story we have, I think that we do not have an example of pushing religion. Assuming that the article is accurate, it looks to me that a student had a question about a cultural saying, was given an answer as to its origins, then asked for source material and was given a copy of the book in question. I don't find books scary in and of themselves, so if this context for the interaction was accurate, I don't have a problem with it and think it a bit silly that someone decided to sue.

Back in the day, if a kid brought home a book the parents did not like, they just threw it out...no lawyers involved.

really?...not so...
abcnews.go.com...

I guess you have to go a bit further to get "back in the day" but using lawyers and lawsuits in this sort of situation is indeed a new thing inthe course of human events.

Almost everything worth reading has been banned at some point: first it was books like Tropic of Cancer for sex by the religious types, then books like Huckleberry Fin were banned by PC types because of "racial stereotypes" and the N-word, now it is the anti-religion types wanting to ban books. The singers may be different but the book-burnin' song remains the same.

How many religions uses the bible?

reply to post by buster2010

No less than 3.
The Bible is a collection of books, books used in no less than 3 religions. (I don't know just how many off hand)

reply to post by mugger

I was a chrisitian about 12 yeasr ago. Don't believe in God anymore. I'm not an atheist, but I am a fairly hardcore gnostic. I can dig deeply into the subject and really get a christian to fire off.

But I think this is excessive.

Still I think it would have been better if hte teacher had not given his own bible. If he had just told the child to search the library or get his own bible then it would have been more appropriate.

If I were on the school board, I probably wouldn't have voted to fire him. However, there might be more details in this story that I don't know about and wasn't discussed in hte OP.

We have ot be careful as a society to not be too anti-this or anti-that. A free society should be able to tolerate some tension. By keeping religion so wrapped up, it builds up the tension.

Too many rules don't make a free society. We need thicker (intellectual) skin.

And.. this child might have grown up to be a religious scholar. Never know... I mean, his parents might be the type that're anti-religion and will discourage him from researching it.

_______________________

What if the kid asked about where the comment "God hates fags" came
from, and the teacher just happened to have Westbourgh Church literature ?
or political party pamphlets ?
What 100% of parents would agree to is live-cam in classrooms
After all, even pet kennels have live-cam so owners can check on
them. Surely our kids need us keep an eye on things.

_______________________

Punishment does seam to be pretty harsh and inconsistent.

However I do believe this is the right decision, it is obvious what the teacher was doing spreading such beliefs is outside the scope of what teachers are ment to do. If a parent wants there child instructed in a religion, there are avenues for that, and many consider this material to be harmful and believe their children should not be exposed to it.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by ldyserenity

Originally posted by Ireminisce
If the student asked for it, I don't see how it's an issue. You can get books from the school library about anything. How is this different?

Because all the teacher had to do was tell him to go to the library. HE/SHE outstepped public school bounds. Your answer should have been the teacher's answer...go to the library and check it out. Period.

So if a boy asked a teacher who was Tom Sawyer's best friend in the story, the proper answer would be to tell him to go in the library and look it up? If that is what a teacher is supposed to do when asked for information, why even have teachers?

No, it would be like the teacher driving to the book store and buying it for him.. Which isnt too far off from 'spreading the good word of the lord' to people without bibles.

Xeroxing a couple pages wouldn't have been too bad, if it was a question about a historical reference or something, but still..

Firing on a first offense for this seems a bit extreme. I wonder if anything else happen?