Senator Asks CIA Nominee When Drones Can Kill Americans

reply to post by ~widowmaker~


Then perhaps 2013 should be the year we get it back.

reply to post by ~widowmaker~

The Federal Reserve Act (ch. 6, 38 Stat. 251, enacted December 23, 1913

Are you saying somewhere within the above it states US citizens can be killed without due process - without going to court - these targeted US citizens are guilty and are not allowed to stand to prove their innocence?

Or is this in answer to another question?

I'll go look it up if you say so - but I don't have the time to go on a wild goose chase. That isn't meant to be negative just asking for more info from you before I go to it. Thanks!

peace

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by mideast

 

Do me a favour, take a look at my posting history and my threads then start over with that post again.

I know all about Al-Qa’ida in particular Al-Qa’ida in Syria.

I am not going to bother starting to go through everything that was wrong with that post because frankly I can’t be bothered. But please don’t patronise me with your revisionist history of” Al-Qaeda”

Pleaaaase , the ignorance is very bothering me.

This is the history of your post + my reply was about US govt running the show , not Al-qaeda only.

+ I live inside Iran and I know what US is doing in the region for last 30 years. So I don't need revision , I am seeing the evidence first hand.

I just wanted to help you get out of the ignorance that USG is helping your national security overseas.

Get real, there is a terrorist threat to the United States of America and to the western world all governments have a mandate to defend national security in the interests of their respected populations.

US govt has many enemies in the region , even in the world. That is just because of the actions and the hypocrisy of the US govt , not because they are enemies of American people.

You have registered in 22-6-2011 , so you should know by now that your govt is not a good person trying to help other people of this planet. It is not helping you neither.

It is just a crazy war-machine planning to kill their rivals.

And the illuminati is helping it to do so.

But maybe you should take your time investigating about your govt.

And maybe it is easier to circle in the imaginations.

My advice is , you better not post these types of replies , or when you do , you should not defend your self like you are all knowing. BTW , it is your choice.

Get real, there is a terrorist threat to the United States of America and to the western world all governments have a mandate to defend national security in the interests of their respected populations. Drones are necessary in killing those who seek to do us harm, it might not be a pretty way of doing things, hell it might even be legally questionable and there is quite a bit of collateral damage. But do you honestly think that the terrorists care about those things either, no given half a change they will happily blow you and your family.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

But do you honestly think that the terrorists care about those things either, no given half a change they will happily blow you and your family.

Dang, what kind of terrorists are we talking about here?

reply to post by The0nlytruth

I agree with that statement.....we do have lunatics running the country,sad thing is it has gotten so out of control and everyone here is in such a state of confusion...that it fill's a person with fear on what to do next when everyone around you does not see the real problems or threats.Wish I was surrounded by smarter and braver people

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by DocHolidaze

 

Oh I'm sure the list of names - the Americans who'll be killed - has already been written in stone with spaces left to fill. Now they're just fine tuning how they're going to do it.
..[/url]

01. You believe in the Constitution.
02. You believe in the "Rule of Law."
03. You believe in gold as real money.
04. You believe in silver as real money.
05. You believe in limited government.
06. You believe in a free market system.
07. You believe in abolishing the Federal Reserve System.
08. You believe in balanced budgets.
09. You believe in the right to possess property.
10. You believe the income tax is misapplied.
11. You believe in God.
12. You believe there is a 9/11 WTC conspiracy to suppress facts and evidence.
13. You believe in the Family Unit.
14. You believe welfare is unconstitutional.
15. You believe the financial markets are corrupt.
16. You believe the judiciary is corrupt.
17. You believe the body politic is corrupt.
18. You believe the Warren Commission findings were corrupted or covered up.
19. You believe the Educational System is failing. 20. You believe the U. S. Government is bankrupt.
21. You believe the "War On Terrorism" is a fraud perpetuated to enrich oil companies.
22. You believe the dollar is a fraud.
23. You believe that fractional banking is a swindle.
24. You believe that government officials possessed prior knowledge of '9/11'.
25. You believe that Social Security is bankrupt.

And more. I stopped at 25 - there’s over 50 descriptions at the link.

So yes - you could be caught in the cross hairs...

Right. Now.

peace

edit on 16-1-2013 by silo13 because: color

Well by that liist, I must be Usama Bin Laden come back from the dead or something. I scare myself by going down that checklist. Wait right there in fact! I think I'm required to turn myself in as a duty by being a citizen! (calls FBI to report self as a terrorist mastermind)

Stay tuned for the next installment of ....when good people go bad - the fall of America.

The answer is probably whenever the hell they want. Does anyone have any illusions about whether or not all these people behave above any law? The CIA has no law. The government operates under no law. Not even the police departments obey the law much anymore. It is lawlessness everywhere. The only people held accountable to laws are citizens, and they are largely harassed and imprisoned for non-crimes. Meanwhile, real murderers/rapists/etc get the shortest prison sentences while mass murderers and robber barons run free.

I had an interesting conversation with a close friend the other night. He raised the point that, "the entirety of our civilization and its continuing to function rests on the belief on our part that there are good, honorable, moral people in control and that they protect our rights and keep things running smoothly and equitably. That's completely and utterly false, but it's what keeps civilization functioning."

I am inclined to agree. Essentially, all bets are off. Everything is permissible, provided the illusion of freedom and order are maintained. For the sake of that illusion being maintained in the light, in the shadows people's rights are stripped away, murder takes place, civilians are killed, spies spy and end up dead, etc. etc. Just as in total war, unthinkable atrocities happen routinely (Churchill: "Have we gone too far? Are we beasts?" re: the air campaigns in Europe and the Pacific which routinely involved the outright firebombing of civilian cities with not so much as a garrison at times) but we ignore these and choose to see our respective nations as the heroic protectors of all that is right and good.

This is the way it has always been. I pray it will not be the way it always is, but for now, if perhaps curtailed when contrasted with historical extremes, it persists. Obviously, I oppose it. But little can be done to change it so long as it remains in the shadows, and the illusion is reliant upon it.

Peace.

Flying Killer Robot Assassins. I must admit it has a nice ring to it.

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by ~widowmaker~

 

The Federal Reserve Act (ch. 6, 38 Stat. 251, enacted December 23, 1913

Are you saying somewhere within the above it states US citizens can be killed without due process - without going to court - these targeted US citizens are guilty and are not allowed to stand to prove their innocence?

The constitution says it!

our government has the right to "suppress insurrections."
Which directly means, the right to "forcibly end a violent uprising against the government."

So yes, if you take up arms against the government, or join an organization that plans to blow up our buildings, they can forcibly put you down, without any trial.
At least that's how I interpret it. This isn't something I pulled out of my ass to justify their actions. I disagree with their actions, but I read this years ago and figured what it means. Seems like most lawyers judges and politicians would agree with me.

Originally posted by Kang69
reply to post by Ghost375

 

Terrorist organization? Please link it to me. How do you know he was in a terrorist organization? Because your TV told you so? I'm not trying to be an ass, but they could have easily framed this guy.

First, look at NDAA, you can be arrested under suspection. That's it! No evidence at all, just suspection! So tell me, do you think the CIA needs evidence to kill Americans?

Of course they don't. They can do whatever they want.

And 2nd, would our intelligence on Anwar al-Awlaki and his son be credible? Hows our intelligence program going on in Iraq and Afghanistan? Well, not the greatest, over hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians were killed in the past 10 years. And that's not even including the 500,000 that were killed in Iraq in the 90's under sanctions.

This country is turning into 1984 right in front of us and people care more about reality TV shows. Boy, are those people going to get a wake up call my god.

Well anyway, 30,000 drones over us skies by 2015, NDAA, NDRP, and the extension of the patriot act.

These bills are here to protect us from the huge domestic terrorist threat in the US. Man these domestic terrorists are everywhere! We need 30,000 armed drones to patrol the skies for these suckers!

Sadly I think the Orwellian nightmare is coming down on us within a few years. Hopefully not, but our civil liberties are getting pillaged while this young empire continues to grow more violent and Authoritarian. Seriously, history repeats itself, and if nothing happens then this is all a bad dream. I really do hope this is a bad dream. Because if it isn't history is yet going to repeat itself, over and over again until we learn from our mistakes like a 5 year old child lacking a consciousnesses.

That sums up my thoughts pretty well.
The decision on who is a terrorist has been removed from the courts where due process and evidence is required as proof. The decisions are now being made behind closed doors by an unknown group of people with no judicial oversight or right of the accused to be present and defend themselves.Even if the accused could be present to defend themselves, there are no defined lines of what is considered a terrorist.The group of unknown decision makers behind the closed doors redefine "what is a terrorist" on a whim and at their pleasure depending on what their motives are at the time.

It is ALWAYS a bad idea to give anyone or any group of people absolute power to make life and death decisions with no oversight of, or consequences for their actions.
no man or group of men are virtuous enough to resist the temptation to do evil when they are given absolute power.

Every american needs to ask themselves what is the worse case scenario of giving the government the authority to assassinate american citizens without the benefit of due process?
if you feel that you could tolerate the worst case scenario then you should support this.
if you feel that the worse case scenario would be intolerable then you should oppose this.

It is important to remember that once you give the government this power you can not take it back or revoke it,you can not regulate their use of this power nor can you have any oversight in their use of this power.
you are completely trusting that the government will use this power ethically,honestly and morally, in fact you doing more than just completely trusting them, you are staking your life on it.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by silo13

 

It was started by Bush, continued by Obama.

When will people realize that its all about incremental-ism.

It was fine when they were killing citizens who are Moslem. Now that NDAA is law, guns are being confiscated and drones are circling America, the sheeple are starting to wake up.

Nonsense.

The program under Obama is NOTHING like first introduced under Bush.

So stop trying to use that size brush.

Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by ~widowmaker~

 

The Federal Reserve Act (ch. 6, 38 Stat. 251, enacted December 23, 1913

Are you saying somewhere within the above it states US citizens can be killed without due process - without going to court - these targeted US citizens are guilty and are not allowed to stand to prove their innocence?

The constitution says it!

our government has the right to "suppress insurrections."
Which directly means, the right to "forcibly end a violent uprising against the government."

So yes, if you take up arms against the government, or join an organization that plans to blow up our buildings, they can forcibly put you down, without any trial.
At least that's how I interpret it. This isn't something I pulled out of my ass to justify their actions. I disagree with their actions, but I read this years ago and figured what it means. Seems like most lawyers judges and politicians would agree with me.

edit on 17-1-2013 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

That works great when it is used as intended and in conjunction with other parts of the constitution as in when congress uses it`s authority to declare war, but when a secret group of men behind closed doors decide what insurrection is and who is considered to be an insurrectionist,rebel,terrorist etc then it doesn`t work at all.
The founding fathers never included provisions in the constitution to address the actions of secret groups
within the government who meet behind closed doors to decide which american citizens the government can assassinate.
They didn`t include provisions for that because it is unconstitutional and could never happen if the other provisions of the constitution were being adhered to.
The fact that congress has not declared war against anybody is proof that congress does not consider there to be any insurrection going on.

Greetings ATS

These high value targets might be Insurgents or Terrorists , but must we Become the beast we are at war with.

Where would we be without rules ..... it would be a jungle where the law of the strongest counts.

It is clear these animmals dont care about rules , but that doesnt mean we also need to lose all our honor in the process.

The Geneva Convention is very clear about this , although i dont know if it would apply to insurgents.

www.brooksidepress.org...

Summary : Basic rules of international humanitarian law in armed conflicts
1. Persons hors de combat and those who do not take a direct part in hostilities are entitled to respect for their lives and their moral and physical integrity. They shall in all circumstances be protected and treated humanely without any adverse distinction.
2. It is forbidden to kill or injure an enemy who surrenders or who is hors de combat.
3. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for by the party to the conflict which has them in its power. Protection also covers medical personnel, establishments, transports and equipment. The emblem of the red cross or the red crescent is the sign of such protection and must be respected.
4. Captured combatants and civilians under the authority of an adverse party are entitled to respect for their lives, dignity, personal rights and convictions. They shall be protected against all acts of violence and reprisals. They shall have the right to correspond with their families and to receive relief.

For me Personally i dont believe it is for a handful of Terrorists with American roots , i believe the US Intelligence agency's are very capable of Arresting/Assasinate these targets , if they want we wouldnt even know about it.

One thing i could not find in the text ( excuse me/correct me if im wrong )

Are they allowed to Run these Operations on US Soil ??

TheGreazel

Originally posted by ipsedixit

You seem like a nice person to me, so I hope you don't take what I said above personally

Ummm....Naw, I'm only thin skinned every other day or so, besides, it's a part of all of our natures to express ourselves on occasion in a manner that we really dont believe in, it gives us an outlet. When I'm particularly exasperated, you'll find the strangest unmeant things falling out of my mouth onto the page.

Well met

YouSir

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by The0nlytruth
reply to post by silo13

 

Death death and more death. America *Sigh*. You have lunatics running your country, REVOLUTION 2013 woop woop woop woop

it sure seems that there are alot of people here that want america to come unglued. they work on dividing, rather than uniting. they advocate chaos, rather than consensus

edit on 16-1-2013 by jimmyx because: change in wording

as long as there are twinkies wanting a free ride, there will be NO consensus.

Originally posted by seamus

as long as there are twinkies wanting a free ride, there will be NO consensus.

Well then, you must not have heard;

No More Twinkies Ever!


So...yeah.

reply to post by silo13


nope thats when we stoped using constitution and moved to corporate law. so yes, they will kill you with a drone. they ahve already killed americans in "other" countries. next step is here. now we just need another 9/11 so we can have an excuse to have them overhead 24/7

reply to post by DCPatriot

Are you serious? Tell me your not. I'm sorry...but to say something so incredibly dishonest as what you said only shows me how far NEOCONs are from reality. Are you aware that during Bush's watch America was attacked on our soil and the NIST investigation is a joke? Under his leadership Rumsfeld declared a couple trillion dollars is missing and have no idea where it went? Led a preemptive war in Iraq based on lies...as he was informed by United Nations Arms Inspector Scott Ritter that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction? Who outed a covert CIA officer Valerie Plame in retaliation for her husbands voicing that there was no evidence of Iraq's purchasing uranium yellow cake from Niger? Used his authority to pursue two unfunded wars and pushed the Senate to sign off on Patriot Act that is unconstitutional according to Federal Judge Napolitano? Authorizing phone tapping and e-mails of Americans without Due Process of Law? Authorized military torture tactics contrary to International Law? Used the Patriot act provisions to jail CIA asset Susan Lindauer in a Military prison in Texas without legal representation and tried to force her to consume Psycho-medications? Told us that TARP money necessary because the big banking and investing institutions are "too big to fail"? Allowed the largest theft of wealth in world history and led the economy to the worst position since the Great Depression?
Must i go on?....
Anyway...it irks me to read something so ignorant as what you posted. I've been to two rodeo's and a State Fair...and i ain't heard something so stupid in my life.

“How much evidence does the President need to determine that a particular American can be lawfully killed?”

The answer is quite simple. There is NO amount of evidence that will allow the President to authorize the killing of an American citizen . American citizens have the right to a fair trial of his/her peers. Obama has indeed become a full-fledged dictator, and it is also a crime that Congress does not immediately begin impeachment hearings. His presidential directives have broken more (Constitutional laws) than Al Capone broke during his reign.
What is wrong with Congress? They could have begun impeachment hearings about a month after his first "election". He has ignored the Constitution, and has systematically dismantled the Bill of Rights, one by one. Wake up, American. Your country and your rights are quickly slipping away from you.
Take this dictator DOWN legally.