It's Not About Guns; it's About Liberty, Freedom and Loss thereof...

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


A reply, you said I was living in an illusion?

So go ahead, explain.

I have given you a inside account of my lifestyle, now tell me what you know....and why?

reply to post by CaptainBeno

Not sure this is thread about whose lifestyle is better or worse (highly subjective) but rather that American rights are being stripped, slowly and surely, from them, and that the "gun" argument is not the issue at all, but rather the strawman on the stage. The real issue is the continuing erosion of personal freedom in the United States, not OZ or Britain or Iberia...

It is also my contention that this occurs without the need for a conspiracy per se, but is the natural course of ANY government to move to a more absolute controlling authority.

It is a warning to folks that they are falling for the wrong argument (guns) and that the real issue(rights) needs to addressed clearly to the elected powers that be, to avoid a bloody confrontation.

What I find amussing is people think they are having rights stripped away. Has nobody read Amrican History? Can people who claim to be losing rights truely be complete ignorant of out history? Because, we have more rights now than ever. Maybe we forget the very basics of nobody but white men with land even being able to vote, black people that were not even counted as an entire person, that protesters were shot and beaten by everyone from the police, the military and private companies, that you could be grabbed up at anytime and sent off to war, that Amricans were put into camps because they had a Japanese back ground. And those are just big things that anybody with a passing knowledge of American history should know. We have had assualt weapons bans before and guess what, nobody took anybodys guns they just stopped selling them, even Reagan suppoted it. So enough with all the we are losing our rights BS. Try picking up a history book and stop getting your information from people who are making money off the lunatic fringe.

reply to post by LetsGoViking

Not sure this is thread about whose lifestyle is better or worse (highly subjective) but rather that American rights are being stripped, slowly and surely, from them, and that the "gun" argument is not the issue at all, but rather the strawman on the stage.

Of course this isn’t about gun violence. This is about disarmament and always has been. You have a problem though. A lot of people here WANT to be protected because they are firmly glued to the nipple of government. They need and want Big Brother to wipe their butts, feed them, give the medical care, and now also protect them from the boogey man.

S&F on the thread….and good luck.

reply to post by MrSpad


I’m confused about why some people who are so concerned about gun violence wouldn’t want to have the means to protect themselves. If people are dropping like flies (as we’re being told ) then why in the hell would anyone think NOW is a good time to ban certain guns that can be used for defense?

I have a great pistol grip shotgun. Its short, powerful, easy to use, and a VERY good home defense weapon…..and it’s on “the list” of banned weapons (according to 94’ list). This means that, in the future, others seeking a good home defense weapon to protect their families will be limited to grandpa’s shotgun….bulky, heavy, long, etc. Why should we allow ourselves to be subjected to this nonsense?? FEAR? Fear of your neighbor?

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by LetsGoViking

 

Of course this isn’t about gun violence. This is about disarmament and always has been. You have a problem though. A lot of people here WANT to be protected because they are firmly glued to the nipple of government. They need and want Big Brother to wipe their butts, feed them, give the medical care, and now also protect them from the boogey man.

Disarmament and the reason behind disarmament. A few are getting it, and more everyday. We just need to keep getting the word out.

Originally posted by MrSpad
What I find amussing is people think they are having rights stripped away. Has nobody read Amrican History? Can people who claim to be losing rights truely be complete ignorant of out history? Because, we have more rights now than ever. Maybe we forget the very basics of nobody but white men with land even being able to vote, black people that were not even counted as an entire person, that protesters were shot and beaten by everyone from the police, the military and private companies, that you could be grabbed up at anytime and sent off to war, that Amricans were put into camps because they had a Japanese back ground. And those are just big things that anybody with a passing knowledge of American history should know. We have had assualt weapons bans before and guess what, nobody took anybodys guns they just stopped selling them, even Reagan suppoted it. So enough with all the we are losing our rights BS. Try picking up a history book and stop getting your information from people who are making money off the lunatic fringe.

First, while Reagan was about as good as it gets for a modern politician, he was after all is said and done, still a politician.

I have read, studied and written about American History, so I have something of a grasp on the problem. With the exception of ending slavery (which is more of a correction than the addition of a right, remember that line "All men are created equal"? It just took some time (and blood, unfortunately) for society at large to recognize that fact. The rest of your examples are examples of protections, not rights. And protections are almost always purchased at the expense of freedoms. A free society is not necessarily safe, and a safe society is not necessarily free. You choose.

reply to post by LetsGoViking

Disarmament and the reason behind disarmament. A few are getting it, and more everyday. We just need to keep getting the word out.

Yes….notice all the drive-by posters who drop anti-gun rhetoric and cute talking points and then flee before answering tough questions.

I know, brother. I’ve been seeing a lot of that over the past few days.

Hit and run!

reply to post by LetsGoViking


Our constitution rights are not being violated, we need to stop pshycho's that think they are taking our guns away.

Assult weaphons ban is a good idea, the people scared out of your minds about your guns need mental help!

The people are caring more about guns that children being murdered.

Originally posted by skepticconwatcher
reply to post by LetsGoViking

 

No it is not. It's about paranoia and some sick fantasy that some gullible undiagnosed mental cases have stuck in their head about some made up New World Order , Project Blueballs and Eugenics coming to get them and they wanna fight a freaking war.

That's what it's about. They all need to be institutionalized. I am sick of the gun deaths.

"Some made up New World Order"??!! Have you not heard any of the speeches about it? It has been mentioned by Bush, Kissinger, Clinton, Blair and more...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

The conspiracy movement has been blackened by silly misinformation and ridiculed, that is true, but don't you ever think to question why?? This new planned society is their future goal and from what history tells us, their method of taking over a country is by causing a revolution so it looks like it has been done "by the people". Then they feel they have no choice but to accept the ensuing laws.

Their American "revolution" machine started after 9/11, since then, the USA has been gradually divided into two with pro-gunners and anti-NWO on one side against the government/army and all those who believe that "guns kill children" on the other. Both sides have had their sentiments stirred up into a frenzy by the Media machine, both have a highly sensitive point and neither will back down. A "revolution" will mean a fight to the death by the former against the US army, leaving the gullible remaining populace who will by then be so terrified they'll say yes to anything... of course, by then they won't have any guns to say no to anything either...

This situation is serious. America is being deliberately pushed into a civil war.

Originally posted by maxzen2004
reply to post by LetsGoViking

 

Our constitution rights are not being violated, we need to stop pshycho's that think they are taking our guns away.

Assult weaphons ban is a good idea, the people scared out of your minds about your guns need mental help!

The people are caring more about guns that children being murdered.

Marxzen, let's take this one item at a time. First, it's not about the guns....read the OP.
Second, Constitutional Rights are not being "violated", they are being erased. Political Correctness eats the First Amendment (search the HRs to limit free speech that have introduced into House over the last 10 years). The current fiasco targets the Second. The Patriot Act eats away what's left of the Fourth. There are numerous examples of how legislation over the past 70 years or so have moved to replace our freedoms with protections.

We do need to stop the "pshycho's" out there, but removing the means of defense from the non-psychotic base is hardly an effective remedy. We need to understand, then mediate the root cause. Defense weapons are not a cause; even the most brain-dead liberal understands that.

Please define an "Assult" or Assault Weapon, and how the deceased victim of a violent crime benefits from being brought to room temperature by a hammer or kitchen knife (or do you propose a Culinary and Hardware Registry?) or .22 single shot as opposed to an AR-15?

I care deeply about my children and others. But handing over our (and their) freedoms does not help the children in the least.

And ad hom attacks ("you don't care about the children!" ) indicated a complete lack of ethical and intellectual honesty.

Originally posted by CaptainBeno
reply to post by CaticusMaximus

 

Youre totally right, it is about liberty and freedom, and thats why its so hard for some foreigners to be able to process it all, because theyve given away there freedoms for the illusionary security Big Brother offered them.

Um? I think YOU think you know that, but you're wrong?

I'm a foreigner to the US but what freedoms have I given up? I live in Perth Austrlia, perhaps you would like to explain to me and fellow posters what freedoms as an Australian I have given up and what illusions are being played out in front of me?

Lets see:

I got a 5 bedroom house
I got a three figure pay starting with 2
I have a great life
Got some fabulous cars
Beach on the doorstep
Beautiful daughter.
Can do what I want when I want
No crime
No violence
Perfect job
Great Public transport
Awesome City with bars and cafes etc

Ok, we have a ranga controlling our nation, but on a whole everything is perfect?

So go on, give it your best shot?

I'm guessing your area is not like that,

More like:

Violence
Guns
Rapes
Bad public transport
Can't walk anywhere at night
Bad jobs
Crap pay
etc etc etc?

And you think I live in an illusion?
Yeah right.

The list of your life is rather silly. I was trying to see what I could envy from you but I can't find a thing. I have all you have and more. I can actually stop working today and I am well off enough to not have worry about working anymore.

I lived in El Paso texas. Never got shot nor mugged nor did i fear walking any where at night.

I live in the midwest now and it is the same.

I really am not sure what this fear of guns is all about. Its a tool. Its a tool to deter, defend and to assault.

Governments use it every day for the purposes I listed in foreign countries where they blow up women in children.

Those governments believe that anything that threatens it is to be destroyed regardless of who they have to kill in the process.

My government has decided that its citizens can be considered people who threaten the government simply by not agree with government. There has been much legislation trying to be passed or passed in order to detain US citizens if they THINK they are a threat.

This same government now wants to disarm me and it has shown that.... It will kill men women and children if it feels threatened. It has even taken steps to make US citizens targets.

And you think I and other people are crazy for fearing the government and wanting to hang on to our weapons??

you think government turning on its own people is an illusion . can you explain to me why?? There are plenty of examples in history to prove that they can.

when i was a kid I used to be told not to do certain things because x consequence would happen. I then said " No I am different! It won't happen that way! It is not the same circumstance" turns out I was wrong. Sometimes I was lucky and it did not happen but I did concede that the possibility was there for a bad outcome.

In your country perhaps it works. In my country.. where our government wants to solve everything with a bomb and killing.... I find it very possible that it will use force if and when it decides we are threat to it.

You are foreigner. You do not know how it is to live here. I do not pretend to understand your country so I would ask you not pretend to understand mine.

You have a good life so have a coke and smile stfu

Originally posted by CaptainBeno
I have made my opinion clear in other threads

BUT I would like to say that that was a well writen thread indeed.

And

Finally someone puts it all into one well writen post.

Nice one

PS, are you sure you don't want to stamp up and down, spit the dummy and tell me to mind my own business?

Thanks for compliments! We may not always come to agreement, but at least we can be gentlemen in the debate.

And for the record, no I don't want to tell you to mind your own your business!

reply to post by LetsGoViking


It's a little know fact that the Militia Act of 1792, mandated that domestic gun mfg's make

"that from and after five years from the passing of this act, muskets for arming the militia as herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for balls of the eighteenth part of a pound.

from this wiki
Second Amendment to the United States Constitution

in other words, the same caliber and grade as the ones the military used. back then the militia was just joe blow, not the national guard. and they used their own weapons.

and if there is any doubt about what the 2nd amendment was about, people should read what the founders wrote about it. they knew there would come a days in the future, just like the days they had experienced in their recent past. and they were providing a means for which to defend against such tyranny.

Originally posted by LetsGoViking
I think that the hoopla surrounding the "Gun" issue in the wake of the horrendous and sad crime in Newtown is not about the weapons at all.

Hypothetically speaking, would you still advocate that opinion if your child were a school shooting victim (God forbid) ?

reply to post by McGinty

Indeed. I removed my children from public schools after such an incident was thwarted. My children are now proficient in arms usage. The weapons are not the issue, it's the culture of disregard that is being foisted upon us by the media et al. I would like to remind everyone that most of the horrific crimes have occurred in heavily controlled states and countries. If the bad guys want to get a weapon, they will not care if it's legal, they will just get it. Consider Norway.

It's not the weapons that at issue here, it's the right to defend ourselves that is at stake. And there are two sides to this issue, the nanny state supporters who say, "it's the police that will defend and protect you" crowd who take no personal responsibility for their own protection and everyone else. And for what it's worth: it takes the police an average of 15 minutes to respond in my area. My entire family would be dead and the bad guys 10 minutes down the road before the police arrived. No thank you.

Originally posted by LetsGoViking
reply to post by McGinty

 

Indeed. I removed my children from public schools after such an incident was thwarted. My children are now proficient in arms usage. The weapons are not the issue, it's the culture of disregard that is being foisted upon us by the media et al. I would like to remind everyone that most of the horrific crimes have occurred in heavily controlled states and countries. If the bad guys want to get a weapon, they will not care if it's legal, they will just get it. Consider Norway.

It's not the weapons that at issue here, it's the right to defend ourselves that is at stake. And there are two sides to this issue, the nanny state supporters who say, "it's the police that will defend and protect you" crowd who take no personal responsibility for their own protection and everyone else. And for what it's worth: it takes the police an average of 15 minutes to respond in my area. My entire family would be dead and the bad guys 10 minutes down the road before the police arrived. No thank you.

So you're saying that if your child were indeed killed at school by a maniac with a gun, then you would still advocate 'gun freedom' ?

Originally posted by maxzen2004
reply to post by LetsGoViking

 

Our constitution rights are not being violated, we need to stop pshycho's that think they are taking our guns away.

Assult weaphons ban is a good idea, the people scared out of your minds about your guns need mental help!

The people are caring more about guns that children being murdered.

reply to post by maxzen2004


First, the average American does not own "assault" weapons, the military does. Americans own weapons that "look like" assault weapons.
Second, I think all of you who keep calling weapons owners "nutters", "psychos", "crazy", and "scared" are the ones who are scared. You are so afraid of what you know nothing about that you'd give the government permission to run roughshod over each of your rights in turn.

Sadly, it won't be any fun when the time comes to say "I told you so".

reply to post by McGinty

Hypothetically speaking, would you still advocate that opinion if your child were a school shooting victim (God forbid) ?

YES!

Absolutely!

Why would I want to be disarmed in the wake of violence? Had a few armed, law abiding citizens been present it may have been prevented.

reply to post by McGinty

Sir, I do believe that is what I said. And, to repeat myself ad nauseum; it's NOT THE WEAPON, it's the culture.

I grew up in a time and place where gun ownership was completely unremarkable. Almost every kid at my HS had a gun rack with at least a .22 and a 12 gauge or a 30-06 hanging from the window. I carried my .22 to school at least once a week for range practice (we had gun range and competitive shooting teams). No one was ever killed or even threatened with a firearm. It's NOT THE WEAPON!

My daughter was threatened with a large rock on the school playground from someone who had recently been arrested for aggravated assault. I did not then, and do not now propose removing rocks from the school as a remedy.

It's the culture that has failed.