Why isn't abortion murder?

reply to post by neoholographic


because it has no consciousness..

next you'll want to give it a social security number

and charge the parents carbon credits for its potential breaths

and let it vote.

Originally posted by mideast
According to teachings of Islam , the body is not a human unless 4 months are passed since the meeting. Because the soul is not blown in the body before 4 months.

After 4 month it is a murder.

This is most likely what some refer to as the "quickening". It is the first time the mother feels the child within and there forms a new and special bond.

And who ever who kills a pregnant woman with more than 4 age ,

Do you mean "whoever kills a pregnant woman who is past her 4th month.......?

heshe should pay two Dia to his related one.

What is a Dia? Is it monetary or a penance?

Originally posted by Superhans

Yeah post-natal abortions are murder, that is a fact.

That doesn't even make sense....

So what you're implying is that abortion is not murder for so long as it remains in the womb. That I completely disagree on. A termination of life is a termination of life. Murder is defined as the unlawful killing of another human-being. Considering post-viability abortions are illegal, that would make it murder. Sorry but your legal or moral stance won't hold up if you think abortion is fine up until the second the baby is born.

Originally posted by Raelsatu

Originally posted by Superhans

Yeah post-natal abortions are murder, that is a fact.

That doesn't even make sense....

It does it REALLY does make sense if you just look at what I wrote. Post-natal abortion is murder, that is a fact. Don't try to argue with me on this. If you disagree that post-natal abortion is murder then you need to look up what murder is.
***BOOM***
That is the hammer coming down, post-natal abortion is murder- GOD just said so

Originally posted by Superhans

Originally posted by Raelsatu

Originally posted by Superhans

Yeah post-natal abortions are murder, that is a fact.

That doesn't even make sense....

It does it REALLY does make sense if you just look at what I wrote. Post-natal abortion is murder, that is a fact.

What the hell are you rambling about? We're not talking about post-natal; we're talking about abortions. Abortions are a termination of the pregnancy. Post-natal is after birth.

Originally posted by Raelsatu

Originally posted by Superhans

Originally posted by Raelsatu

Originally posted by Superhans

Yeah post-natal abortions are murder, that is a fact.

That doesn't even make sense....

It does it REALLY does make sense if you just look at what I wrote. Post-natal abortion is murder, that is a fact.

What the hell are you rambling about? We're not talking about post-natal; we're talking about abortions. Abortions are a termination of the pregnancy. Post-natal is after birth.

Don't dance around the issue with me my pretty little valentine. If you and anyone else scrolls back you will indeed see that you and I were indeed talking about post-natal abortion and then GOD stepped in and said it was murder.

reply to post by Superhans


Congratulations on killing the debate & wasting my time.

Originally posted by Raelsatu
reply to post by Superhans

 

Congratulations on killing the debate & wasting my time.

Killing the debate??? It was dead before you started, post-natal abortion is murder. It was your own stupid fault for trying to challenge me on that in the first place.
If you wanna debate that is cool, I will dump some knowledge loads on your face-all over your glasses. But YOU were the one who decided to go toe-to-toe with me on the issue of post-natal abortions, and you came up short on that exchange. Don't cry, you have no one to blame but yourself.

edit to add: I would like to thank springer and SO for giving us such a great venue to deliver this pwnage and I would like to thank who ever star'd my posts. Only the TRULY ignorant would argue against someone who said abortion and murder in the same sentence without reading the whole issue. Yes, postnatal means AFTER birth if you ABORT your baby AFTER you had it, it is MURDER-FACT.

reply to post by Superhans


What is considered Murder is what the Law considers Murder. Abortions are Legal...thus it is not Murder. Do I believe that a Woman who is having a lare term abortion is doing something wrong?

It doesn't matter as it is not my body or my business.

If a fetus is not sentient is aborting that fetus any more wrong than killing any other bodily cells that are also not sentient?

Again...it doesn't matter as it is not my body or my business and it is LEGAL.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Superhans

 

What is considered Murder is what the Law considers Murder. Abortions are Legal...thus it is not Murder. Do I believe that a Woman who is having a lare term abortion is doing something wrong?

It doesn't matter as it is not my body or my business.

If a fetus is not sentient is aborting that fetus any more wrong than killing any other bodily cells that are also not sentient?

Again...it doesn't matter as it is not my body or my business and it is LEGAL.

Split Infinity

Abortion is only legal up until a certain point in the pregnancy, making any abortion following it legally murder (unless otherwise specified due to medical issues). Also, not every country has the same abortion laws; so let's say a country only allow abortion up until the 2nd month. Anything following that would constitute murder.

A fetus' capacity for sentience begins between 18 & 30 weeks.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Superhans

 

What is considered Murder is what the Law considers Murder. Abortions are Legal...thus it is not Murder. Do I believe that a Woman who is having a lare term abortion is doing something wrong?

blah blah blah blah. The fact is you jumped in doing a nose dive over in the shallow end...
POST-NATAL abortions ARE murder!!! Do you even know what postnatal is? Obviously you don't, so look it up right now. While you are looking it up I will be doing another victory dance because people like you just GIVE them to me. Its like im some debate victory receptacle and people just pile 'em in my mouth. I win AGAIN...

reply to post by Raelsatu


I never implied that it is legal to abort a fetus in every state at a very late term nor did I define what I consider a late term abortion.

In my mind a late term abortion would be anytime after a fetus has obtained Sentience and you timeline of such a low number of weeks is incorrect. At that stage the brain has not developed to the point of obtaining sentience.

Split Infinity

Imagine all these..... alive.....humans debating whether you are a human or just a bunch of cells..as you are ripped from your mothers loins.

Know this ..do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.

You had life , yet you defend the industry of death.

If death is so good , why are you clinging to life?

Love is creating of life, not an industry of death.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Never implied? You said "Abortions are Legal...thus it is not Murder."; and that late-term abortions aren't your concern because it's not your body. Evidently you only meant in the case of legal abortions, which wasn't clarified.

You can do a search for the lower bound of sentience/capacity for consciousness; the higher average estimate is 30 weeks. Some go much lower..... I don't know if there's any concrete answer though.

reply to post by Superhans


Also...a Victory Dance? Really? Especially when debating a topic like this?

This is the problem with the people who do nothing but villify those who either have an abortion or those who perform one or those who agree they should be legal.

You are so concentrated on forcing your beliefs on others that you take no time to think or offer any constructive ideas on how to reduce the number of abortions.

Split Infinity

Maybe it's not seen as murder just plain because people have become so selfish and has such a grotesquely out-of-whack sense of entitlement?So that any "negative" consequences resulting from their own irresponsibility is seen as an inconvenience to be disposed of-instead of LEARNT from?That anyone or anything standing in the way of them getting what they want (in this case,a child-free thus more carefree lifestyle) can and should be eliminated forthwith?Even a human life.Let me put it this way,i have a huge tree outside my window,of which my hubby has recently planted seeds,the seeds germinated and the seedlings are now about 15cm tall,sprouting leaves.If i chopped down that huge tall shade-giving tree+haul the stump out of the Earth,i killed that tree.If i ripped the tiny seedlings out of their soil-filled containers now, and chucked them in the rubbish bin,i killed 6 trees.Because had i not done that,they would've been planted,and had the potential to grow into adult trees.Either way,the outcome is the same.There should'nt EVEN NEED TO BE A NEED FOR ABORTIONS IN THIS DAY AND AGE! It happens in most cases,because women can't be bothered to ensure they don't fall pregnant.I said it before,and i say it again:IF YOU WANT TO HAVE SEX,BUT NOT BABIES,TAKE ANY AND EVERY PRECAUTION TO PREVENT PREGNANCY IN THE FIRST PLACE! SO SIMPLE!! Else,keep your legs closed,and tell Romeo to keep his dick in his pants.

reply to post by OrionsWitness


Death is neither Bad or Good it is simply a fact of existence.

Split Infinity

reply to post by Raelsatu


Yes I said that and the statement is fact. You are the one who modified condition but still...my statement remains true.

Split Infinity

reply to post by Raxoxane


Let me ask you this.

Since both you and I feel disgust for the concept of Abortion...do you not believe that education as well as making Plan B and the Morning After Pill which both simply do not allow the fertilized egg to implant itself in the uterine wall...is a GOOD THING to have and should be made easily available for all females?

Split Infinity

This will always be an unsettled issue IMO, and it seems to often revolve around when a human life begins, but in my own opinion;

To understand what an eggcorn is, one must first understand what an oak tree is. So, although the idea of the acorn cannot be concieved separate from the idea of the oak tree, we must recognize the fact that an acorn is not an oak tree.

To understand what a fetus is, one must first understand what a human being is. So, although the idea of a fetus cannot be concieved separate from the idea of a human being, we must remember that a fetus is not a human being.

"Pro-Life" arguements tend to assume that the acorn is an oak (fetus = human life), and "Pro-Choice" arguements tend to compel us to separate the idea of "human being" from "fetus", when actually, the idea of human being is necessary to understand the idea of fetus. It is logically impossible to do so.

Both arguments fail to garner my support; the ethical issue, to me, is how do you make an adequate decision when the information presented in these arguements, though that information be plentiful, still fall short of swaying opinion? In short, how do you make an ethical/moral decision if you are "on the fence" ?